TOS Offense? If so, how would you ever know?

I happened to find this thing over on SLX:

http://uncensored.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=725497

It's a 3rd party client that lets you selectively "strip" the clothing off anyone you see, be it "regular" texture clothing or prim clothing. And only you see the person without their clothing.

I've heard a lot of people say that we have no real expectation of privacy in SL, due to the fact that people can cam right through walls and such at long range, but this kinds of exceeds the bounds of what we should expect, wouldn't you say?

And if someone WERE using this to ogle unsuspecting persons, how would we ever know?

Further... what if someone used this for a griefing tool?

Example:

They use this to strip someone... oh, say, a child avatar... naked. Then they AR the person and check the "include a screen shot". Since the screenshot is what YOUR client sees (the same as taking a snapshot), LL will see the person naked in the pic.

Want to AR someone in a PG area? Do this.

Want to harass a child avatar? Do this.

Now... how do we STOP that from happening?

You can't really, not that I can see. LL may be able to see what version of the client you were running when sending the AR, that may be the only safety net you have.

O M G o.O O.o What a valid point you've made!

Think of all the practical jokes you could play and all the the tickets files to LL about avatars clothing not showing.

you: hey!! you can't go naked here it's a pg sim!!!

XXX: What do you mean I'm not naked

you: yes you are!!!!! I'll sent you a pic

XXXMG!!!


XXX TPs home to file a support ticket

Oh, I saw this referenced in another thread but thought it was hypothetical. It was just a matter of time, really.

Back when I was in The Sims Online I remember when a brand new third party patch came out that allowed you to see avatars naked if they wore certain costumes from the trunks. People went nuts, it was all about .

Can it be used for griefing, yeah. But really it is no different from the weirdos that wait around skyboxes to cam in and catch a flash of avie skin. I doubt many will buy it and less will worry about it.

Not to mention
1. Who would pay 3200 for it?
2. If they did they are brave to transmit their password, etc over it. Most third party viewers like Nicholz (sp?) is open source so you could see if this is happening. This one is undoubtedly closed so who is to say they won't farm your avie name and password with it?

Lot to go through to see bewbies that are pretty much all over SL.

I would pay good money for a client which would let me put clothes _on_ people.

The answer to the original questions are:

No, it's not a TOS offense.

You know something is a TOS offense primarily by finding the paragraph of the TOS that the act would violated. Secondarily, you'd consult an official source maintained by Linden Labs explaining how it interprets and enforces the TOS.

To the underlying point of the post, yes, it's crummy, someone shouldn't have coded it, and it should be prevented if there were a way. As to the latter question, I don't have sufficient technical expertise to know the feasibility of preventing it. If it can't be prevented, then the problem that is left is then that some people are just jerks, and there's really no way to legislate people into ceasing being jerks.

As to the harassment aspects here- I guess this is one area where a virtual harassment just wouldn't have the same level of upsetting me as its real-world equivalent. I'd want a pound of flesh if someone were peeping on me in real life. But when it comes to peeping on my avatar- wow, it's really sad that someone might have nothing better to do than that. The virtual peeping would upset me too, but I guess not to a show-stopping level for me.

Maybe not TOS but Community Standards.

This might just bring back the market for PG versions of skins again, where your skin shows up with sexy Lingerie and you can decide to switch to another skin for more personal moments

I wear a prim suit once in a while. I think I may have been ARed for it a few times, but nothing ever came of it so I'll never really find out. (^_^)y

A couple things I just caught from the ad:



So if someone's selection beacon is coming at your prim skirt it may not be to check the designer. If you are concerned TP away when you see this happening.



So, this will be all over the grid soon as someone will buy it, request the source and compile it themselves for free or lower cost distribution.

that is a good idea, I should add that to my skin line...

I dun' see the problem...

I run 'round nekkies mosta the time anyway.

Used as advertised (seeing through avatars' clothes on one's own viewer), this particular tool would not violate any Community Standards.

Some of the particular things the original post mentioned could be against Community Standards. For example, using it to create a screenshot to give fraudulent support to an Abuse Report. Such a case would violate the "Harassment" section of the Community Standards.

(There is a section on privacy as well in the Community Stanards, but it seems to deal exclusively with privacy of conversations. Privacy from visual spying isn't covered.)

Since the code of the viewer is open to inspection, surely the Linden Labs staff can account for the fact that a received screen shot can be affected by a viewer modification.

Not that I mean to defend this little avatar-clothes-stripping program at all. It undoubtedly falls into the "Evil" category.

However, quite honestly, development of this kind of program really falls quite consistently within Linden Labs's policies.

C.Y.A

I'm pretty sure that this program (or at least a program like it- "see avatars without their clothes" has been around for quite a while. I've seen it advertised before, I'm pretty sure when I was new to Second Life.

If it has been around for a while, and hasn't caught one widespread, maybe we can all take comfort in the fact that very few people actually this see-naked-avatars program appealing.

Oh, I agree. I am not bothered a bit by it. When it came out in TSO as a patch it wore off quick as people looking at cartoony naked avatars in the sims was just not that appealing for most hehe.

Even if it is widespread, I am quite sure the novelty would wear off soon for the user. Especially after going through all the steps it takes to make this happen. Heck, by the time you jumped through the hoops your subject will probably be long gone.

A techie question about an area that I have not delved into:-

THe SLExchange description referenced above includes
"This will strip the avatar from all textured clothing, including shapes and shape skirts, all pants and shirt shapes, in order to strip the avatar back to its original naked shape."

Am I correct in thinking that skin and clothing layers are baked into a single texture, and that this texture is what passed to a viewer for rendering?
If this is so, then the pictures in the ad are set up.

In live use, would the product have to supply its own complete skin texture?


Removing the prims is a bit of a kludge.
My advice to anyone stressed out about being 'stripped' like this is to wear prim clothes and keep dancing all the time It's a swine trying to zoom in on an avatar that's in a fast moving animation. Add in those awful moving disco lights and the wannabe voyeur will go nuts.

If anyone wants to see me naked, they can ask politely, and I might consider their request.

Has anyone told Salem Stygian about this viewer yet? (opener of the "SL full of Deviants" thread)

I'm certain she'd feel even more justified.

...and I don't know...if one was this eager to see nude human AV's, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a couple of skins, and use them on your AV, and just have that undressed?
A lot less hassle as well, I'd think.

Meh...humans...

/curls up in the sun and goes back to sleep

To those asking how it does that. The sl client now sends not just the baked image of the avatar but also all the component textures to. To everyone

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/12798-report-stolen-content-3.html

People explain it in this thread *warning it has nipples in it*

And not this allows for easy texture theft to. If you can get a skin off a fully clothed avatar and get every single layer of cloths well... connect the dots. The bottom feeders already have.

One could write a viewer that would let one assign gestures to other's avatars, I would think, thus adding to the appeal and annoyance of the naked viewer.

The cheapest solution is to go to one of the many, many, many free sex sims, open nudity sims, and strip clubs. Second Life is fully of people willing to show off their naked avatars, quite for free.

Of course, the appeal of this little see-naked-avatars program is not in the seeing naked avatars. It's seeing avatars naked without consent. It's about the little power thrill of doing something to someone that the person doesn't want you to do. It appeals to a little bit of mental and emotional sickness. That's why most residents who are at least moderately well-adjusted socially cannot fathom the appeal of the program.

Maybe there's a market for skins that carry messages in the parts not normally seen.
I'm thinking something more expressive than "Demo".

If you can read this....... etc.

Good point, Amity...something I perhaps should have considered, but (happily) did not.

I wonder if some folks posting on this forum might fit into that category?

/begins to consider connections of some personality types to this kind of behavior, speculates about some people who post in the forums, clamps a paw over his mouth before inviting the special kind of pain that will come if he follows this line of reasoning any further...

I'm sure they know who they are...