Should/must I move to Zindra?

I'm confused about what my options are with regard to Zindra. I own a small animation shop (Rickymations) that sells a variety of things, including some naughtier animations, which make up a substantial minority of my wares. (If you count things like massages and kissing anims, maybe a majority?) My signs don't contain any nudity, unless you count mannequins. I'm not even sure the keywords on my land parcel are screened out of "Mature" search, as I noticed "sex" isn't screened. I don't have my own sim; I'm on a mature parcel in Hecta, a mainland sim, and I pay tier to LL. Anyway, my questions are:

1. Must I move? Maybe the obvious answer is "yes," but is there a way to get a definitive Linden opinion on this? The FAQ on Mature Content says: "stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks (and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning) all support a Mature designation so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content." If I put up "no nudity" signs, people will still demo my stuff; does that mean I'm "hosting publicly promoted adult activities"? At the same time, the FAQ also defines "adult" as "Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities (whether or not photo-realistic); we will broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct." Does that cover my shop?

2. If the answer to #1 is "no," should I move (or at least open an outlet) to Zindra anyway? Is it in my business interests to do so? Is the idea that I will no longer be able to use keywords like "sexball" or "sexbed" without tagging the parcel as Adult?

3. If the answer to #1 is "yes," should I move my whole shop? Split it? Set up the whole thing in Zindra and a subset where I am now? Presumably even Adult shoppers will occasionally buy, say, a wedding pose or a slow dance. I guess that argues for a complete copy of my shop in Zindra, with a "Mature" subset on mainland? (If I can find a way to do this without tiering up.)

4. Is there a Linden who can give me definitive answer to question 1? Or a way to request an official opinion? Would a Linden be willing to visit my shop to advise me?

5. Finally, are residents limited to the "rural" areas of Zindra, or can we build in the city areas too? If I buy in rural and keep my plots back in mainland, I'll tier up. With that in mind: do the Lindens plan to rent out space in the stalls I noticed in Kama City and other areas in Zindra?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.

Welocme to LL's new self-imposed "gray area" of policies and enforcement.

It's all still really hazy to me too, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be.

From what you describe, I don't *think* your shop will have to move, but you won't be able to advertise the sex related items you have for sale. As I understand it, part of the ticket process where you request a land trade will include Lindens deciding who is eligible, so it might be that even if you wanted to move they wouldn't find your store "Adult" enough to get free land.

As for choosing to set up two shops, I think that is not a bad idea. One in an Adult region which highlights your more mature offerings, can advertise as such, and offers a lm to your mainstore, as well as showcases some of your non-adult work. I don't think the Lindens will be offering mall rentals in Zindra, but you can bet many others will be. Also, don;t forget that private estates can also be rated as Adult, some already are, and that will be another place you could rent a small shop which would get you into the Adult search.

Also, it couldn't hurt to drop a notecard on Blondin with your specific questions and a lm to your store, or attend his office hour (which I believe is today at 3:30 SLT - you can double check his profile to confirm).

If you don't move to Zindra, you can bet that your shop will get ARs all the time. Even if you think you are okay under the rules, the more ARs you get, the more opportunites a Linden reading the AR has a chance to misapply the rules and screw you.

So even if you think you will win whatever appeals process exists regarding the ARs, how many times do you want to go through the appeals process?

1. The most recent information I've seen is that poseball shops don't need to move, and I take that to mean by extension that a request for a free land swap will likely be denied. But the post-Zindra cleanup will be driven by ARs, and there's no way of knowing how the g-team or any individual Linden will respond to an arbitrary AR on an arbitrary day, so prepare to be forced to buy into Adult land down the line. Or change your business substantially. Or get suspended or banned. Likewise naughty search terms will likely be a moving target so expect a bumpy ride as huge swaths of the population suddenly can't see your ads on some days.

2. Maybe, but expect it to be horribly expensive as the usual players snap up all the land microseconds after it becomes available and flip it at approximately a billion times the base price. On a slightly less cynical note, don't forget that Estate sims can be marked as Adult too, and might serve just as well as Zindra for your new home.

3. I'd have both a full shop and a Mature subset, but personally I'm in a holding pattern waiting to see how things shake out (plus I'm much much smaller than you, with a smaller percentage of adult wares).

4. Some time ago Blondin (the Linden mouthpiece who posted in forum threads while they existed) offered to go around looking at things and he probably did, but since then much of what he said has turned out to be completely false. I'm not necessarily saying that he lied (although it's certainly possible); it may be that his personal take on things was subsequently overridden by committee. There's no way to get definitive answers, and that's probably the way LL wants it.

5. No clue.


Only one guy's opinion, and I made no attempt to hide my overall attitude towards this mess. Perhaps someone will have some more hopeful answers for you

Must you? Marginal case. Depends on what keywords you think you will need to advertize successfully to your intended clients, and what percentage of your clients will not be able to get to Zindra, or won't bother looking in one category or another. Once the move is over, I think most people looking for sex pose balls will only check "adult" when they search, though some may check both Adult and Mature. But many of your potential customers won't be verified, and will only be able to search for and shop in a Mature store.

I think most merchants that sell mixed goods are going to have to run two stores. One on Mature land, possibly lacking the more racy items and definitely lacking the restricted search keywords; and a second store in Zindra that has the full line, and clearly worded ads. That is the only way to reach everyone.

From what I can see, LL has double-prim and single-prim parcels they will sell or swap for in the City region. But as far as I can see, all the existing buildings are just "fluff" to take up space so they can offer double-prims in what is left in those sims. I seriously doubt any existing structures will be offering rental sales space.

Personally, I would avoid the City section. The badly-built roads will be a big negative with shoppers. Who enjoys sinking into the road and getting thrown into the sky (or trapped under the pavement) every time they try walking across the street?

And as someone else posted, you could also open your Adult store in a private sim, and not buy any land in Zindra at all.

Didn't address this part clearly before.

Once people own the land, they can do whatever they like with it. Protected Linden land will stay as it is, but those builds on parcels to be sold are just examples of what could be done with the land put there by the moles. I would expect virtually all of them to be returned by the owners once the parcels are sold. Have a look at Nautilus City or Bay City to see how many of the original mole prefabs are still in place to get an idea - and then factor in that people purchased in those areas, presumably, because they liked the theme. That will not be the case in Zindra.

Incidentally, several of the prefabs are available for free in the train station build in Mosh. They are in vendors on the wall.

The other question is "will there be a finacial advantage in the long term to moving or not moving?"

Simply put, IF you qualify today for a free move, and IF you take advantage of it, that move and its attendant hassles will cost you FAR less than trying to buy land in Zindra once the speculators get their greedy paws on the auctioned parcels.

Totally agree. Also, as I understand it, you can keep your old land if you choose. If that is the case, and you can marginally increase your tier picking up some double prim, rural land in Zindra where you open a satellite store with adult material, it could work out pretty well.

I did read somewhere that in the case of a mixed business you could divide your parcel, put the adult content on one part, then request a swap for Zindra land for that particular part. It would be worth trying - then you could have teleporters set up in each shop leading to the other.

I'm afraid there may be a peremptory question: "*Can* you move to Zindra?"

LL, in order to grant a land swap (and give up a nice, tasty auction parcel), will want a pretty scary description of how your nice little store is disgustingly perverted. The parcel description will need to have "Adult" terms on it, or at least some of the content will. They've even made noises about "helping" us sanitize the language to make it sub-Adult so--lucky us--we won't "have to" move to Zindra.

Just having some racy animations for sale won't qualify.

That's not necessarily bad, however. While the market value of Mature Mainland is sure to fall even further from this, for some time there will be a substantial proportion of the population that remains clueless about why a whole bunch of their favorite smut-peddlers vanished from Search, and too embarrassed or bothered to find out how to get themselves adult-verified, and to tweak their viewer preferences to be able to do anything with that verification once they get it. While that transition is going on, businesses on Adult land may have pretty tough times.

"and too embarrassed or bothered to find out how to get themselves adult-verified"

Or too intelligent to permit a traceable link between their sedate 'real life' and their racy dream-life.

Yes, that too, although buying a few L$s with a prepaid credit card doesn't create much of a link.

Thank you for all the helpful replies! This thread has clarified quite a few things for me.



Ah, I hadn't realized this. It looks you're right. The SL Support Center says a land-swap ticket should indicate "Whether you want to retain your existing parcel on the Mainland as well as the new parcel on Zindra (you'll need to remove all adult content from the Mainland parcel)." The clear implication is that you can get the new Zindra land and retain your old land too. That's what I'll want to do, at least short-term.

It hadn't occurred to me that prices might skyrocket on Zindra once speculators start buying it up. Accordingly, the land-swap is starting to sound like a must-do thing. In fact, the price certainly sounds right, according to the Support Center: "We'll set the parcel for sale to you for L$0. When you purchase it, it will not immediately increase your monthly land fees. If you choose to retain your existing parcel on the Mainland, this may push you into a higher tier bracket when the Zindra parcels start billing." Of course, as some have said here, another option would be to buy on a private Adult sim.


LoL, it hadn't occurred to me that I might actually want to "sex up" my shop rather than play down the naughty bits! Maybe I should replace the mannequins in my vendor-ads with photos of actual avis in action, lol.


This thread has pretty much convinced me of that. And, as others have said, I'd rather not deal with ARs.

Thanks again!

Ok since I can put in for a part of my parcel or even to keep my mainland parcel and a Zindra parcel, I want to apply for one. How and where exactly do we put in for a land swap ticket?

My guess, they will and the auctions will be a bloodbath. People who didn't qualify for a swap will get caught up in the mess and be faced with paying through the nose. As LL sees the demand for adult land they will print more, but may not announce this until after the close of the initial auction. Eventually they will print so much the value will plummet, and people (non-speculators) who paid the going rate for the initial auction will lose virtually all of that investment.

Admittedly, I am a little peevish at the moment. If only I had followed my own advice...



Blondin moved his office hour forward by several hours today, but didn't update that on the wiki/website or Twitter feed, only in his profile. He droppped in long enough to tell us the office hour was over, so I have no new "information" to offer.

I really hate being so negative, it is not what I am in SL for, wihch is why I've stayed out of most of the Adult content discussion until it got closer to launch. I may need to continue with that approach.

Also, I will say again, even if you don't qualify for a trade and Zindra prices skyrocket, private estates can offer Adult rated land, and there are reputable landlords who I am sure will be able to provide quality land of varying sizes for reasonable rates.

I think you should move because Zindra looks like a lot of fun. For one thing, they have a lot of prim rich regions and I wonder if they are also going to be run on computers that can handle a heavier script load.

I think it will have a really rollicking free for all feel to it.

If I had some adult content, I would definitely put in for land swap (especially if you can keep your mainland).

You can't yet, they are supposed to announce it when we can begin submitting tickets.

Also, since I said it in this thread, I *believe* you can choose to keep your land, but at this point, who knows. I have been wrong many times before. I got that information from the audio recordings of brown bags about the changes and land ownership posted on the blog some time ago. It looks like Ricky found some info to back this up, but, in my opnion, no one will really know how this process works until after it is finished.

Thanks. I thought I might have missed something.

Several of the sims are parceled now, so if you are planning to ask for a swap it is probably a good idea to scope out the area and make a list of parcels you would like. That way, when they open the door for tickets you are ready to go and get yours in early. I believe the tickets will ask for your top three parcel choices, or something like that.

I think we know a little more about it now, since the latest blog post (https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/06/15/welcome-to-zindra). Specifically, "once the two weeks are up on the 29th of June, the ticket submission process will begin." The cited KB article () gives some hints as to how the swap will work and what kind of information you'll need to supply in requesting the swap.

Nimue, very good point about Estates being able to provide Adult land, too; in theory, that should limit the "irrational exuberance" in Zindra auction prices (although I wouldn't bet on that).

I am not optimistic it will limit "exuberance", as I have seen too much evidence in the past that a land speculator feeding frenzy defies all logic. I do think, though, it will be a good opportunity for some established landlords ( and maybe some enterprising new ones) to pick up some very grateful new residents who had always been loyal to the mainland before this.

And, thanks for the links!

I so hope they don't zone any parcel more than 10% into water. There are already way too many blocked waterways in SL from (insert random word here) who build a dock from one side of the river to the other, while LL could simply build a marina and rent slots there, with some slots purposely left open for rezzing vehicles of those who do not have their own permanent slot.

Almost everybody likes water and waterway, and way more could/should be done to cater to that.

I am definately going to decide on size and spots I would like. I may only need a little 512 because my primary concern was the BDSM book discussion group we run from our home parcel. I was worried that since it has a group we post to it could be considered advertising.