Mature / Adult / PG

Ok, this adult / mature business is pretty new to me since I've been away for a while. I was under the impression that when I joined, SL was an adult only community. Has that changed?
Who decides what an "adult conversation" is?
Why do we need to talk as if there are children around when the kids are meant to be on the teen grid?
Are the Lindens planning on integrating the teen grid with the main grid?

Nope, has not changed, you cannot legally have an SL account if younger than 18.

You might want to read the Lingen Blog and many many threads here where it's all discussed.

The Lindens. They listen to us in their office hours.

However, looks like shapes are adult now, all shapes at xstreet are adult content now (last time I checked). Before all that are not age verified can be ARd for possession of a shape, we might want to be patient about the final definitions.

That is easy to answer: because not all like rude or "adult" language.
There really should be places to talk to others without having to listen to rude language.

Also often disussed here.
No confirmation yet.
However, my guess is: the teens will come. Maybe not this year, but next year latest.

This could be the end for me then, having just witnessed someone being 'told off' for using the word "pussy" in a conversation where in context it really was meant as a cat... it's really gotten just a little bit silly.

It's a very sad day when adults can't chose to leave a conversation when they find it offensive...that someone else has to 'protect' them from it. No wonder all the popular dance places are so quiet now, no one dares speak!

Are there any adult themed dance places where you CAN have a conversation without getting your knuckles rapped for saying something which someone else might choose to take offense to?

For the next month or so, things will be rather up in the air a bit. People are moving, some "adult" places are holding out until the last minute to flip the switch from "Mature" to "Adult" on their sims (on private islands that is). So for a few weeks, things will be a bit up in the air as people move and adjust.

Don't leave SL over it though - all that is really happening is that all the "real" Mature places of yore are having to relocate or change the classification of the sim they are on. The "idea" is that there are people trying to conduct real-world business, education (of college aged adults and up) and various other things where they don't want to be exposed to such filth. Plus there are laws on the books in Australia and the U.S. that, if enacted, could make it so people couldn't access SL at all in the way it was set up before. This "Adult Verification" thing is an attempt to make it so once these laws go into effect (if they do) people will still be able to play the game.

Things look a mess now, but the horror stories are about 80% knee-jerk reaction and only 20% valid about some of the odd ways LL went to go about it - and even then, the truth is that once the dust settles in a month or so, no one will really notice the difference. There's just one more step involved in getting signed up and able to freely move around the grid.

(I suspect too that the lashing someone got for using the word "pussy" in reference to a cat was more of a "see how stupid LL is?" kinda sarcastic lashing rather than someone actually griping about it, but I dunno.)

As for dancing, I'm not much of a club hopper, but I know there is a club over on the Skara Brae sim. I don't know how much people hang out there when there isn't an event going on, but they do tend to do events 2 or 3 times a week I think. Search for the RGB Club (making sure Adult is enabled in both places in your browser).

Stick around though. It's just a bit of rezoning going on, but in the end, once everyone gets over the newness, SL will be back to normal.

Think twice about leaving. You know what things are worth, when you no longer have them.

However, you bring a new aspect into the discussion.

Filtering words (as it looks like it's happening in search and on xstreet) cannot be the solution.
Words have double meanings and as we are a multi cultural community, we also have to notice that the same word in one language is nice and it's very very rude in the other language.



Well, as a teacher I would like to have the chance to teach scripting without listening to rude comments. As a businessman I would like to talk to partners and customers without having to accept that in listening distance someone talks offensive.

So I do not see it as a sad day when I can rely on - like in RL - that I must not listen to last's nights bed stories of some breggar, when I meet someone in a public place.
Remember, your chat goes 20 meters, voice even far more.

So, no, I like to be able to have some certainty about themes that are talked about, words used and animations seen, when I select a place to be or to meet.

However: we had that already. We had PG and Mature and we had rather good rules for that. As I see it now, mature moves to adult ... and what is left for the mature regions?
If I look at it, mature has almost no difference to PG.



Yes.
Or better: Yes, we will.
The new continent Zindra is made for that.
It just started. The first are just moving and it will be a process of a few weeks.
Let us be patient and meet again in 2 or 3 months on Zindra and try a very offensive chat.

What I am thinking about: when we do that, what are all the mature sims good for then?

I've been saying this all along - the people with adult content in SL are going to be inconvenienced by having to move or reclassify. There will even be some "Mature" business that will likely have to move if they are on a private sim now. If that sim is dominated by Adult places, the sim will just be toggled as adult and that will be that. The "Mature" business will have to move to a mature sim if they don't want to vanish from the general search results.

Then, once it's all said and done and the dust settles, all the adult business and all of the people who don't want to run the risk of being censored and AR'd just because someone on their land says **** or, worse #&!*, will eventually make their way to the "Adult" sims too just to be free of being censored.

In the end, all of the people who embrace freedom of expression and so on will be over on the adult sims - including many who are not inherently adult. They say you can have a club on a mature sim - but who would want to have one there if you have to have chat bouncers running around telling people what they can and cannot say? They say you can have a sex bed in your "private" home in SL, but who would want one if you have to whisper and make it impossible for your friends to pop in and use the place when you aren't around because if you leave it open, there are people who might just pop in and use your bed and shout their narrative? You may be within the rules, but you run the risk of having to deal with AR reports from busybody neighbors every other day. It's just easier to move and never have to worry about it again.

So, when the dust settles, it is the "non" adult locations that are really being affected here. They have an extra level of restrictions they must put out for people to visit their places. They have to police the place. They have to look over their shoulder and be careful not to say pussy (cat) too loudly.

Everyone will eventually just take the blue pill and come to the Adult side, even if they aren't really adult in nature.

Yes, it's everyone, probably even the PGers... I agree your right about the majority eventully moving to Adult and the reasons why.

Ok, now I'm completely lost!
Zindra?
I currently own half a sim of PG mainland, would the Lindens move me to Zindra without charge?

We have been talking about this since March, and the Lindens have said a lot of things in the mean time. For more than you ever want to know about the subject go to here and the related wiki pages:

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Information_Kit
http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Information_Kit

The short version of the changes are:

There is a new land rating, Adult, along with the previous Mature and PG. A new mainland continent, Zindra, is being set up as all adult regions. Estate owners can also set their regions to Adult if they want to.

Adult = You can have it, and publicly advertise and promote it (search, etc), basically clubs and stores that do or sell adult things.

Mature = You can still have it, but not publicly advertise or promote it, so private homes with sex beds are still OK there.

PG = You can't have it.

The actual definitions are here:


https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

Version 1.23 and later of the software will filter search by search words and region rating if your account is not "verified", ie have done the age verification OR provided payment info to SL or XStreet. Once you verify, you then have to go to Preferences > General > Rating and turn on the adult setting, and also in each search tab. The default is mature until you do that. This makes it so you have to actively want to see adult things, rather than just coming across it at random.

People who have commercial parcels are being offered a swap to Zindra at no direct charge (set for sale at L$0). There is still the indirect costs of moving your stuff, losing search rank, landmarks, etc.

If you *dont* have a qualifying commercial parcel, but want to move to an adult region, your choices are to buy land on Zindra *after* the commercial places are done moving, or to move to an estate thats been rated adult.

The reason they are putting all the adult mainland in one place is in theory to let people who *dont* want to run into adult stuff to not have to. It will be all off to one side on its own continent. If your account is not verified and have the adult settings turned on, then teleport or entry to adult regions will not happen.

Kittie - if it's a PG sim - no, they won't move you for free. They are only moving "commercial adult shops" for free. And IF you were to actually fall under that description and qualify for that, they would more likely just lock you out of your account for having an adult shop on a PG region all this time. lol

It'll be a few months before the supply and demand for Adult parcels on Zindra settles down. There is definitely a lot less land over there right now than there is demand for people who will want to go there. So plan on the first few months of land being for sale over there to be inflated considerably. (And expect the "sell" value of your land to go down during that period too). After some time has gone by, it will balance out though. The Lindens already have a bunch of hardware that isn't on line but is ready to go once the current "zindra" manages to get full.

i know we are switching our private island to adult..mainly because we did not want to walk the fine line of mature and adult..plus we will be having a bit more protection against greifers and less worry about witch hunts and so on..

time will tell if it is good or bad for business.. they say we will be targeting the people that would want that type of content or activity..

like someone said..things will calm down in time..we'll adjust and get used to things..

the bad part is people get hurt by the adjustments..

but when so many things get abused and used and become intrusive and enough complain..in time they will make adjustments for that..

take the search for example..people using keywords and other things to push them into areas of the search they had no business being..but loopholes were found and if you were not gaming the search or other things you sat 6 pages in when things not belonging in those sections took your spots..

there will be some changes we won't like.but there will also be some we do..it will all even out in the end...........i hope lol

People who "embrace freedom of expression"????

Oh puh-leeeeeze!

Rygel, much of what you have to say is entirely sensible, but the implication here that those who prefer PG (amongst whom, btw, I do NOT number myself) are "enemies" of "freedom of expression" is nonsense, and a smear.

In PG or Mature locations, you will be able to discuss, even debate, pro-choice vs. pro-life, the wisdom of American foreign policy, the political philosophies of Karl Marx and Adam Smith, the nature of gender identity, and, indeed, any NUMBER of controversial subjects and issues without hindrance, so long as your language is framed appropriately. You will even be able to flirt and come on to people in PG areas, with the proviso that your language is Lauren Bacall rather than Jenna Jameson. ("You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together and.. . blow." -- WAY sexy!)

What an "adult rating" adds to this conversation is the ability to freely use profanities, explicit descriptions of sexual acts and the simulation of explicitly violent or sexual acts.

Does the difference between these two sets of "freedoms" REALLY constitute the difference between a love of freedom and an acceptance of tyranny?????

I have absolutely no problem with SL having problems for explicit sexuality (violence is another issue . . .), but please, let's not start labeling those who prefer not to be exposed to explicit and graphic sexuality as "enemies" of freedom of expression.

Payment info on file is required. Not Adult Verified.

Same for private island sims - no reason to turn on adult-verify ban lines, simple set to adult and it will require PioF to enter.

Rygel didn't say the converse was true.

Did s/he?

Explicitly, no. But if those who "embrace freedom of expression" migrate to Zindra, it surely follows that those who are left behind . . . don't?

My real beef here is with a tendency to apply black and white distinctions through this whole debate. Freedom vs. censorship, "nanny" vs. freedom-lover, etc. The same goes for other "sides" in this, of course, too: I find the implication, for example, that those who "support" the existence of child avs, or their right to go to Zindra, must be "paedophiles" equally (or more) objectionable.

I think the rhetoric needs to be cooled down a LOT, and I think too that we all need to pay some attention to the shades of grey that fall between the extremes that we tend to focus upon.

And if only men migrate to Zindra then that means all those left behind are women?

Pep (Learn to argue, please, not just quarrel.)

Sorry, Pep, but I think I am "arguing" and not just quarreling. I have a point I am trying to make about the language we are using here. I think it is a legitimate one, and that my response to Rygel's rather inflammatory distinction (even if only implied) between "those who embrace freedom of expression" and the implied "everyone else" is valid. I actually don't have any real issues with the other things that she has to say.

You are, however, certainly welcome to disagree . . . Indeed, I would be shocked and a little disappointed in you if you didn't.

Shame on you.

Learn to distinguish between "all X will migrate" (which is what was said) and "if only X will migrate" (which isn't).

And yes, given Rygel's premise "all of the people who embrace freedom of expression ... will be over on the adult sims", then "anyone not on the adult sim doesn't embrace freedom of expression" is a logical conclusion. Of course, both authors clearly intend "on the adult sim" to mean participating on the adult sim at times, and not being only on the adult sim to the exclusion of any time on other sims.

I don't know. If the 'regular" mainland becomes the sanitized, corproteenadworld that some envision, then a lot of people may restrict themselves to Zindra,

Thank you, Kidd. Much more clearly expressed than I was apparently able to manage.

I was commenting on the proposition that the converse was not stipulated, which seemed to be the premise upon which Scyla was predicating her statement.

Pep (Gets convoluted doesn't it!)

Ah, yes, but as Kidd so ABLY demonstrates, the converse is embedded in the original proposition. Wherein lies my objection . . .

If your intent was to say that the correct term was contrapositive and not converse, then it should have been addressed to Clarissa, who introduced that term. Scylla, and I imagine Clarissa as well, have the good sense not to quibble over terminology.

I agree with your objection . . .

Pep ( . . . but not the way you originally expressed it.)