Third-Party Forums: Actions Bannable?

So there have been rumors going around that anything we say in a third party forum could possibly lead to an inworld ban.

Can someone please clarify this?

Only anything that's said or done in-world, or *.secondlife.com (forums, blog comments, JIRA entries, mailing lists, etc).

There was the whole bit about posting chat logs on third party forums that would suddenly be an offense but people who want to see faults will find them, even if they have to invent them. Guidelines for the official SL forums are obviously guidelines for this forum only and don't extend anywhere else.

From the ToS (http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php):

Which pretty much says it all, really - they can.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would, as most actions tend to have consequences - if not in terms of legal liability (all discussion about the viability of such one-sided EULA-isms aside), then in terms of fallout among LL's paying customers.

I'd recommend asking for clarification on this point at one of LL's GTeam meetings:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours/GTeam

Just my two cents, of course .

I think a clarification will be forthcoming.

Cristiano Midnight from SLUniverse got clarification from Robin Linden that third-party sites are exempted from this policy.
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/16285-third-party-sites-chat-logs.html

It would be so easy for someone to game LL using 3rd party websites. Say I created an account on SLUniverse named Robin Linden, then posted all sorts of fabricated chat logs to the forums there. LL could not possibly verify the postings were from Robin Linden's IP unless Cristiano was willing to cooperate with their investigation. Even then they would have to take his word for it.

Taking it another step further, say the person who wants to get Robin Linden banned sets up their own 3rd party website/forum and posts the fabricated logs. Is LL going to trust anyone who says Yes the chat logs posted on my XXXforum were from Robin Linden's IP?

It was supposed to be the posting of the chatlog, not the content, that was frowned upon. The poster, not the chatter, would be over that particular imaginary line.

That's not much of a defence though.

Say you have a fairly popular website that is known to be yours - circumstantially perhaps, but plain as day that it is your blog. You can't exactly claim you were hacked twice a week for months.

At some point, you'll be facing whatever the policy is, so it's important that people understand what it is.

I don't know what the answer is as far as "Will they ban you"

But if the question is "can they ban you for it" then this line from the TOS says yes:

"Linden Lab has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to suspend or terminate your Account"

Right. Actually, Khamon helpfully asked at Robin's office hour today, and they'll be changing the language that lead to the confusion about posting chat logs on third-party sites.

Still, as I've said all along, the fear of being banned in-world for a forums.secondlife.com infraction--and the sense that one is safe to do whatever one pleases elsewhere--is a little pollyanna-ish. They may not be able to make you take down anything you post somewhere else, but the ToS gives them the right to terminate your service, regardless.

LOL - I've gotten a bunch of PM's asking what I've said elsewhere. I've said nothing at all, I was just curious, since there's a big discussion on SL Forum moderation over in SLU.

Well, for that matter, they could decide to ban me just because they don't like where I went out to for dinner last night.

Nonetheless, I will not be circumscribing my posts on any other forums - whether game-related or not - for fear that I will get banned from SL for them. I will not be thinking of LL when I post elsewhere.

I don't call that Pollyannaish; I call it normal.

coco

It boils down to this: the ToS and Community Standards can only be enforced on LL owned services.

They can not control what happens elsewhere.

Call me paranoid,( I am actually)
But pretty sure people have been in trouble for what they have said elsewhere, and it will continue. As has been stated, they CAN punish for outside actions if they want to, jus depends if they feel like it, thier company their servors, their TOS givin them the right to toss anybody anytime for any reason.
They have no control what one says elsewhere, but ultimate control of wether you can Log in to SL after sayin sumin they don`t like elsewhere.

with what i`ve said on these forums and LL own`s blog, i`m not afraid to post what ever i want some where else if i`ll ever see fit in the future as it can`t be worse then what i have said here

It's not control, it's consequence.

I'm not paranoid about it, but with such far reaching consequences I gotta take such things pretty seriously.

i am much more worried about someone making up a bunch of B.S. about me that never really happened, than i am about my own behavior and its consequences. that's why i won't do a 3rd party with my SL name ever again.

to be honest, that is pretty much walking on the paranoid line

if some one makes up a false log, you know what you have said and others should trust you on your word or pissoff

looking at myself, i think that that is where the difference lies compared to most people, most think and care what others think about of you, while i don`t give a damn

world would be a funny place if people cut the bs and just said what they think instead of making long circling stories that have no point (as in point and ending point)


edit: why the hell am i posting again as i made a promise just to lurk unless directly helping some one grrr... talk about addiction in another thread...

I can't imagine anyone with LL having the time to follow the third party forums and then follow through with some type of ban. They can't keep up with what they need to as it is.

If I'm completely wrong and it is something they do, then ban me. That would be a sign for me to not complain, but just leave the game.

One can always use a service such as Onxiam to indicate where one actually posts (or, you know, just post a list on one's website).

That is an easy attitude to have. Especially when you do not have 5 years of life here.

Time is not the issue. It's best to have an easy attitude towards things beyond your control. SL never has been, nor ever will be, a democracy. The only way to vote is to no longer log in.

Right. And further, every single bit of data that is generated on Linden Lab's computing facilities belongs to Linden Lab. Every word we type in chat, every post we submit to something.secondlife.com, every prim we build, every texture we upload, everything. (I'm talking the 1s and 0s)

I know this is really stretching and reaching, but it isn't unworthy of consideration that Linden owns chat transcripts generated through their software. At the end of the day, if such a transcript ends up on a 3rd party site, and it contained information sensitive enough to do real harm to another individual, it isn't beyond the realm of reasonable possibility that Linden Lab might find themselves in the position of having to take action.

Beyond that, some of the stuff I post here in RA is over the top at times, but I doubt I would ever get to the point where I'd even consider pasting a private chat log into a public forum, much less move my mouse pointer anywhere near the submit button. That for me is a no-fly-zone.

Wouldn't matter I it were 10 years. If the conditions change to make it unenjoyable, no point coming back.

I'll just have to go ahead and agree with Alicia on this one. I have never been afraid to speak my mind anywhere including here. Seem to recall having called someone a fucking asshole at one point because that was what they were being at the time. That was an extreme case because mostly I am here in the Scripting forums encouraging people and helping people learn.

But this does bring up one question. Why in the heck would anyone want to post a chat log anywhere? (except of course, chat log of a meeting to convey the points) Chat logs prove absolutely nothing and are worse then useless. Anyone can MAKE a chat log say anything they want it to say. In fact if someone had to resort to posting a chat log to try to PROVE that they were wronged by so and so then I would immediately suspect it anyways.

So someone please explain to me how a posted chat log could possibly prove anything? If you trust the word of the person then there is no need for a chat log and if you don't trust their word then a chat log proves nothing. Toilet paper has much more worth then a posted chat log.

Anyone want to see the chat log transcript where Philip named me as the new CEO of Linden Labs?

There are so many things broken with this forum. Security and us logging into an http address with our account name and password is one of the worst. No bbcode sucks, LL completely ignoring the forums for so long when EVERY other application or online community have thriving, company supported forums to help thier userbase is a shame. Perception of uneven moderation, let's see if my two dirty words get censored and FlipperPA can get away with it. Just because LL seems to be taking some interest in it again doesn't mean they are going to stick around. Then throw into the mix the problems with the application itself including the concurrency ceiling with the asset server and I would say that LL's policy concerning chat logs on 3rd party forums is the least of our problems.