And the pull out begins....

"What exactly are "consumer skills?" ....."

Yes.. well said Oryx, i agree. The advertising departments of companies are ( or should be) dedicated to defining their consumers (customers), not least, to enable the correct targeting and expenditure.

The local supermarket here where i live, obviously has processes that study what i purchase, and as a result sends me "sweetners" and other possible related tempters,
to develop and cement my custom.

Such companies do not sit around and wait for someone to point the way, per se.

A skilled consumer? any definition of such, would have ragged edges and blurs, we are all unique,but follow the same route sometimes,rarely in exactly the same footprints,no matter how deep those we see ahead, are.

Companies are consumers too.

Companies do not sit around and wait for someone to point the way, per se.

drops a word i often use in forums...Opportunity...

Opportunity does not have a guaranteed result. ie... "today, we are going to go this way..."

What determines "this way..."and the result?.

Success and Failure operate equally..until defined. Try and define consumer skill...

/me readys his pitchfork and torch.
Oh im only kidding

Tooth picks and bent paper clips are what i seeing mad people with ehehhehe

I've been doing custom work for some of the corps over the last 2 years, the general opinion you guys have expressed is right, most corps dont offer anything to the SL community and thus the community offers nothing back. They invest a few thousand in an island whilst the 'hype' is there and then pull out when the hype is gone. The only people to really benefit are the advisors they employ to manage their move into SL and the builders and scripters who do all the hard work. IBM are different. Although they are trying to promote some products and services they also use SL as a tool, they use it for world wide conferncing, for training, for presentations or meetings, so I think they have got the right idea. They are exploring all the different ways SL and other virtual worlds can improve or benefit their buisness.

Also, corp presence in SL is not dead or indeed dying. I believe the big named, headline grabbing COKE type companies jumped on the band wagon and are now jumping of because they went into SL blind. However its not all about big names. I am having more contact with smaller companies nowadays, that are not well known, that are looking to set up shop in SL. These guys arnt willing to throw money at SL blindly assuming they will reep the benfits, these guys are asking questions, doing research and working out the best way to use SL to their advantage. I think we'll see more of this type of company now coming into SL. For example a friend of mine has just set up a plot for a swiss company that deals in stem cell reseach. They rent a 4098 sqm plot from her and they bought one of my prefabs which was adapted to their needs. Overall the money they have spent is very low and they have a very interesting plot with an interactive tour and I learnt allot about stem cell research that I didnt know. So i think we see a growth in smaller rl business in SL who find a cost effective way to build and maintain a prescence without forking out thousands of dollars for islands and thousands more for content creators.

"a friend of mine has just set up a plot for a swiss company that deals in stem cell reseach"

Certainly, i see that such expanding thought, in physical technology is the future, . Stem Cell research will save lives, a meritous and worthy direction alone, even disregarding the financial profit.

Stem Cell research and related bio engineering will also bring us closer to the conscious machine.

But it is just my opinion, a pet love.

We create our successors.., those, that for whatever reason, fall by the wayside, contribute to that succession and we evolve.

The pull out begins? no. motivation changes? yes.

Echoes of a Presidential aide complaining that the problem was not one of lack of leadership, but a lack of followership

The issue is typical of the 90's, when corporates entered the Internet, but had no real clue why.. when the marketeers told them it was the next 'thing'.. and it didn't produce some tangible revenue, some pulled out.. now they are all back with a vengence.
Seems like a repeat of history.. for the most parts, those corporates that entered SL were either mislead as to the reasons they should, can't find a reason to stay, don't make the revenues perhaps they thought they would/should/could.. believed the hype over what actually is the user base (Accounts against users ingame).. don't like the bad press and feel they maybe mared or seen as in someway supporting it... hoped the 'issues' experienced in the early days of entering would have been resolved by now.... can't pay their liabilities through their paypal account (lol.. j/k).. lost contact with LL and feel unloved/unimportant... or simply don't understand the social layers within what they perceive as a business platform.

I think many saw the SL enviromnent as being the next generation of the internet and got in early before the 'explosion' of development.. but then... saw how LL are handling things.. although I secretly hope that the development of SL does reach those heady heights as it has the potential.

I'm not really sure why everyone (or the forums anyway) thinks that LL ever actively marketed towards getting businesses in SL. Is there actually any evidence of that or just an idea that got stuck in everyone's head?

The only people I can see wanting to draw coorporations into SL are companies like ESC who want to drain a few hundred thousand of the corp's marketing budget for their own benefit to create a sim.

One niche that LL does actively target is the educational sector, but I never saw anything that made me think LL actually cares about a corp's SL presence.

My design firm is located on Silicon Island--Si is mainly made up of RL companies (PG sim)...They all seem to be pretty quiet, but I know there is definite traffic. Si is a very nice, quiet, grief-free island...

Some of you know that I work on RL movie-premiere sims that go up before a movie's launch...just so you all know, these aren't slowing down at all--either there must be a decent return on them, or they are giving it more time to produce valid numbers. From personal experience, the movie-sims are always pretty busy...

Not too many people are going to be hugely affected if RL companies back out a little...that's the beauty of SL...we produce our OWN universe--we can, in a sense, survive in a vacuum.

Either way, SL will flourish. *sing with me* You've got to...acc-cen-tuate the positive, and ee-lim-inate the negative....and don't mess with Mr. In-between."

Spend a week reading rip-off stories in these forums.

Comparison shopping is a consumer skill, and if comparison shopping is something you do, then you are ahead of the curve.

"Comparison shopping is a consumer skill, and if comparison shopping is something you do, then you are ahead of the curve."

I understand the sentiment, the point there regarding comparison shopping. But being "ahead of the curve" suggests it is a competition, competition with oneself? or the business supplying the goods? or other consumers?

I joined SL for pleasure, not for any business acumen ( i have none) i buy something because i want it. then and there, not specifically because that is a good deal, though it might be. I often buy things in SL because i want something the product contains, not the actual product, and buying the product allows me to use the contents in a particular unrelated context.



The original context:

"Originally Posted by Amity Slade
It does seem to me that the average Second Life resident has disappointing low consumer skills. "

I am in no competition, unlike any consumer who enters SL solely for business, who certainly must be aware of competition, if that is the desired success aim, but, for many who use SL, business, is a second aim, business is just incidental, the first aim being advertising, " Look! this is me, i am here, this is what i do"



i guess i have dissapointing low consumer skills... but im not leaving, i own a quarter sim, it has no business i run on it, though i share for those financially less fortunate friends who want to experiment and try things without obligation or payment.
The monthly payments i make for the sim and my account help to keep SL going.
It is a luxury i can afford, in an area i am sympathetic to, technology and art and folks who venture in that direction, that i can use SL to communicate with, in a unique way.

I am not ahead of the curve... would i condone or castigate someone who was or was not?

Yes.. i will and do..

Does that change SL? i hope so, and i share your sentiments Amity, even if my aim isnt yours.

Palace 2D chat was once supported and funded by big business, they pulled out, Palace chat became unfunded, a mothballed program. It is still running... over seven years since the funding was withdrawn, the users keep it going. I came from there to SL because of the 3D environment SL has, that Palace could not provide. Even if funding was withdrawn, and SL went the same way as Palace, i sense that given the opportunity, folks would keep it going.

Have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I know several of the better known SL retailers - not RL companies, but well known SL enterprises - and if you look at larger, most successful SL enterprises, almost all of them have their flagship stores (oftentime ONLY stores) on their own private islands. I don't think the correct marketing tactic for a large RL company is to build on mainland and hope that "wandering" traffic from tiny SL shops on the next-door sim will drive their traffic numbers to any significant degree.


Agree with most of that, until you got to the "sponsor a few events or concerts" part. At that point you've encountered one of the MAJOR shortcomings of SL. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Duran Duran came into SL and then abandoned it and left. Think about it for a moment. At *absolute max* they might be able to jam 100 avatars into a sim for a concert. That's the fundamental problem, I think. Show Duran Duran or other big name groups a way to hold a concert for a few thousand, vs a few tens - and I think they would come flocking to SL. But its a bit ridiculous when the BEST audience you can hope for within the technological limitations of the platform is 100, and likely less.

I didn't mean to imply that "poor consumer skills" has caused the dismal failure of corporations in Second Life. On the contrary, my point was that I don't think that Second Life customers are a tough market, and the failure of a business to have the money to invest in Second Life but still not be able to make something out of it suggests business acumen that is far, far poorer than the consumer skills of the residents.

The willingness of many Second Life residents to pay money, even if just a little bit, to buy things without prior comparison shopping, knowledge of how the product works, and doing this despite the fact (or not knowing the fact) that there is absolutely no consumer protection shows me that Second Life is full of people with money they are dying to spend, they can't stand not spending it, and if they can't spend it on something worthwhile they are determined to burn it. If a corporation that is able to invest in a "presence" can't find a way to just collect the money that Second Life residents are dying to throw away, then the corporation has no source to blame for that failure but itself.

Heh. It's tinfoil hat time!

Absolutely true. Many residents will not only buy trash, but severely overpriced trash, so it's rather dumbfounding as to why a large company (with money to burn themselves, heh) couldn't hire anybody to do research and a team of artists to make something nice and worthwhile.

If Joe Blow can come into SL and start a successful business off a 512, built upon inspired and unique products, there's not gonna be any sympathy for huge companies who come in, dazzle us with their spending/hiring power, and then fail horribly.

The sky doesn't fall whenever a resident overinvests in a business and leaves when they fail, so I'm wondering why it suddenly counts when the corporations do it. They both show a similar lack of any amount of passion or creativity.

Good riddance I say! There is no need for rl big businesses in SL, they don't care about us or what creativity SL has to offer, they just saw dollar signs in their eyes and jumped in hoping to take advantage. Glad to see them gone

The corporations will be like the people. The ones who don't get it will come and go. The ones who do get it will find the ways it works for them. Like live 3D videoconferencing, better than a dozen postage-stamp talking heads on your screen AND with plenty of opportunities to go off somewhere and have a little "backchannel" communication - and all in an environment where you can do a bit of social bonding as well.

Or like Coca-Cola, who is using it quite well for viral advertising - those free, copy-transfer Coke vending machines are popping up0 in lots of places now...

I wonder how many 'native' SL content creators are paid by corporations.

(vs. how many corporate projects employ people that only came to SecondLife for their project)

That is the most insightful comment you have made in almost 2 years
hmm lets see you over 4000 posts, me under 600 posts hmmm which of us feels the need to post regardless of haveing anything to contribute?

I will fall for your bait and ask you as many have in teh past if you are so unhappy here why do you still come? if you are no longer coming in world why do you feel a need to come here and spread your negitivity? A long time ago you said that you had made a mistake and paid for a years subscription and so felt you needed to continue to use it til it expired? well what now? you just like to be negitive?
I am far from a SL Rah Rah but i still enjoy coming inworld and i am still awed by the real creativity i can find without much effort and the latter half of my post was not aimed at you and i said it was for the OP of teh thread, maybe not quite straightforward enough for you, i will try to use smaller words and be more straight forward so you can follow.

to Many of teh residents of SL it is not about what they can get out of it it is about what they can put into it and what they can discover about their own creativity
why do you have such a issue with what others are doing that you feel the need for over 2 years to spend so much energy whining? i don't get it, again, if you are that unhappy stop coming in, and enjoy your life and leave it for those who are still exploring and discovering if they will enjoy it



Yes your point is very clear, you are a very unhappy person and what to spread you gloom to others


you can accuse me of meandering in my post, of mispelling words but if you could not tell what i was reffering to , well then i guess you are not even half as bright as i thought you were and not a 10th as bright as you think you are

You go to extreme to flame me but not the others why? well thats too noticeable. Facts are if you must go to this extreme to post with a alt then that alone shows how low some will get just to try to get back at others. Sorry but i dont play stupid forums games by posting with alts. So unless you post with your main account or the one your protecting please don`t even try. People like ou that hides i could never understand why? What are you scaried of?

I'm closing the thread because of trolling it's off-topic for this forum.