German High Court decides: Age verification by ID-card number not safe enough

I still think that the "Post-Ident" as mentioned in one of the first posts would be the way to go re: maintaining privacy n such. No Aristotle, no Integrity. I think any place that has a quasi-official status, like banks, post offices, etc, should be able to ID someone physically, sign or stamp something, and the person would just fax it or scan it and email it to LL. *shrug* Just one girl's opinion.

while it would work for keeping out minors- why the heck is it necessary for such an intrusive system to exist?

I have two teenagers at home - thus as a concerned parent I am among the demographic all this age verification stuff is supposed to help, and I don't see why the system needs to be as complicated as all that.

I think a system of RL official places verifying people's identities to allow them access to adult material will prevent more adults from wanting to play Second Life than kids.

/me isn't so sure. Anything faxed/emailed wouldn't be too hard to forge, especially if you had a legit one to work from..

There is also the fact that kids will probably be more willing to forge identity documents -

Than Adults will be willing to provide ID to "official" types to basically in public admit they want to use the internet for "adult" purposes.



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Some government agency in the not so distant future:

Clerk - "yes Ma'am can I help you?"
Woman - "I'm here for my Adult Verification"
Older woman behind her - "People these days and all this filth on that 3D web nonsense"
Clerk - "Ma'am if you could just remove your clothing so I can verify your gender .."

I don't see the Post-Ident as a very intrusive system. On the contrary: I would have my age verified *without* me sending any sensible data to LL or others. The act of verification happens totally at the post office counter and neiter LL nor Aristotle or others would ever see any documents I use to verify my age or identity.
And it is even halfway secure for the other side, because the acknowledgement of my verification would directly be sent from the post office to LL without me getting my fingers on it in between.

Any system that involves anything more than the payment details to pay for a service is intrusive.

Its a matter of how intrusive is acceptable.

The third party issue is a different aspect to the problem, it is seperate to how intrusive the system is.

With a post ID/ Fax system the information would still have to go somewhere - probably to a 3rd Party like Aristotle. Thus it doesn't solve anything from that standpoint.

It also depends on what you are accustomed to. Germans are less likely to find this intrusive than, say, US Americans would be -- I, for one, would not want to be told I had to go to a government office and identify myself in order to play a video game -- but Germany has many registration type laws (the Ordnungsamt comes to mind, which is something that I personally found extremely intrusive when I was living in Germany) and so I would guess that many Germans would see this as less intrusive than I might.

My point being that providing a copy of your drivers license is the same amount of intrusive whether it goes to Linden Lab or Aristotle.

Going to a government agency is the same amount of intrusive whether the information goes to LL or Aristotle.

Etc.

"German High Court decides: Age verification by ID-card number not safe enough"

Well that's hardly surprising considering that providing an ID-card number is in no way, shape, or form proof that the person providing the number is the person whom the number refers to.

Aristotle's system is weaker and far easier to manipulate than credit card verification.

Even though credit cards dont want to be used as age verification - you have a point.

Because that Credit Card bill comes to the house every month often times with charges from Linden Lab on it ..

Therefore it has a whole billing history that the person who holds the card is at least willing to accept the charges from Second Life and this is some way responsible for whoever is using Second Life.

Well, unless you can figure out a way to make sure my kid isn't going to be exposed to SL at a friend's house, you are missing the picture here.

I am an excellent father. I am protective, watchful, and I discuss dangers with my child to ensure she is as safe as I can ensure. However, I can't be around her 100% of the time. I am not the keeper of other people's parents, and there is no way to tell how well parented other kids are until it is too late. And even the best children misbehave.

So... how do you think the scenario should be? Are you really so paranoid about revealing your age as to potentially endanger other people's children?

I firmly believe in age verification for Second Life. There is enough happening in SL that younger children should not be exposed to that it requires some sort of failsafe. And simply because someone else might not be as good a parent, or as attentive as YOU think they should be... why should children end up suffering the maladjustment seeing some of the freaky side of SL could cause?

The authorities who issue SSN's, driving licence's and passports won't accept any responsibility for someone being verified by the number alone either. Aristotle apparently will but this just proves how flawed the system is.



Exactly, maybe if LL added 18+ to the bill it might help in that regard. Even if it's a minor who has the credit card, the bill goes to the adult who authorised that associated card.

Whereas no system is perfect, the postident system requires an in person verification, from what I've seen of Aristotle's system, there is no follow up. I've received no letter from them asking me to confirm that it was me who verified. There's no trail.

I think it's more people worrying about identity theft than somebody knowing their RL age, Burnman.. That and somebody from SL showing up at your RL doorstep, unannounced and unexpected. I'm all for keeping things safe for kids but these are also valid concerns.

verisign used to use a system similar to that.
youd rock up to a bank/police station/lawyer/post office and have them more or less 'notorise' a form, something like a statutory declaration.

imo requiring something like this will kill ll's business off though.

Then you should be questioning the system LL are using and demanding a better verification system, because Aristotle's system is not very good at all and will increase the number of children here who are falsely verified.

If you check my signature... you will see that I am all about protecting one's identity. But there is a dire need for an age verification system that will provide a reasonable failsafe.

this isnt about children, and never has been.
and no, i dont actually feel all that responsible for your kids. maybe i would if i were publishing adult (REAL adult) material or whatnot, but im not- so i dont. move your kids comp out of the bedroom and into the lounge room and babysit him yourself.

I never said I wasn't questioning the system they have chosen. My reaction was to the remark that parents are at fault 100% of the time when children access badness online. While good parenting is paramount... age verification would fill some of the gaps.

But how do you know they're not in the friend's basement watching porno tapes, dropping acid, and listening to John Cage? It's already blatantly illegal for the friend to be on the Main Grid; I just don't see how IDV helps this scenario at all.

please not to sell babies in a box !!!!

no Im not serious, yes I am finding LL's concept of IDV rediculous. I already supplied that info when I accept the TOS. Further info was supplied by my monthly payments to LL. They need no more. And I wont use IDV.... maybe because of LL using the "Trust" word.

Your prejudice is astounding. And your lack of regard for common courtesy is offensive. You might want to work on that entitlement complex of yours.

Because age restriction doesn't work if you don't card at the door.

/me sighs. Friday again already?

I meant, *~*Bare In Flowers *~*

have a tissue.

Who said I was paranoid about revealing my age?

I'm saying no Identity system will ever be good enough - The only real solution to this problem is parental responsibility.

Age verification doesn't stop your kids from getting alcohol at other parent's houses either.