Forcing You To Buy to Enter a Sim?

My point is that I'm not going to pay a cover charge unless there is special value to entice me to pay one. The fact that you have a bar, or a sim, is simply not enough to entice customers to pay extra.

For Chrissakes! Can we stop with the riddles? What does the sim offer? Is it RP, Theme, shopping, entertainment, museum....?

it's pink and green and rarely seen

Torley owns it.....?

Well, then, I apologize for the way I stated it. There are underlying factors which I don't want to get into in open forum. I don't want to start a flame war and I don't want to cause bad feelings against any particular party.

99.9% true except for one technicality.

I've promised this; it's written into my land covenant. As long as Caledon exists and people are behaving reasonably decently, they literally have a right to visit.

So much as any 'right' is granted / enforced, that is - it's granted / enforced by just me, which admittedly is kinda weak compared to say, a government. But for what it's worth, I'm serious about it.

It's important stuff. It sucks to be treated like a second class citizen, told how to dress, made to feel unwelcome, have rules spammed into your face upon arrival and so forth.

I can't begin to mention the number of places that were destined for greatness except that the management acted in an overcontrolling manner.

Black Swan, though other Rezzable sims are likely to follow the same model.

It's entertainment, the Greenies sim.

Thank you. And Mari too. Never been to either of them.

In that case, I would hope that there was some sort of description at the entry point for people to use to decide if they wanted to pay to enter.

So people don't have to wear a monocle and bloomers to visit Caledon?

Well the bottom line is its their land they can do what they want. If you don't like it, don't go there.

But it does seem a bad way to get people to want to visit the sim.

I went to Black Swan just a few days ago and I didn't have to buy anything?

No flame war or bad feelings here, but I was wondering why this outraged you so much. Now it sounds like you don't want to say why, so I guess I'll just have to keep wondering.

My own view: sim owners can do whatever they want with their land, and if it's something that particularly appeals to me for whatever reason I would certainly consider paying admission (or buying a product) to see it. At worst it's a questionable business decision for a sim owner to make. Though I will say that I think it's too bad that it has to be a questionable business decision; too many people in SL are unwilling to pay even for things they enjoy at the expense of the tier payments and hard work of others. Sims aren't free and neither is the time and talent it takes to create a really good one.

Here's a good article on it all:

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2008/07/can-second-life.html

This must have been a recent changed because I was there not long ago and I never paid anything.


ETA - saw Mari's quoted article after typing the above comment.



And when the heck did the Greenies start charging?

Thankies .

A cover charge for something that's entirely static seems doomed to fail though, there just aren't enough "paying tourists" in SL to make it work and other than look around there's nothing to actually *do* on Black Swan and even visually it was entirely underwhelming and unimpressive.

Greenies was fun and I might have paid L$200 to see it, but I've never been back. Once you've been there once, you've seen it all already and there's no reason to come back.

On the other hand, I do know a few people who have a pay-for-entry dynamic venue (there are activites, events, parties, social mingling, etc) and those do seem to work out and people do come back again and again.

If the "pass" works for all the Rezzable sims permanently I might buy it, but only because I've seen them, visit regularly, and think they are probably worth paying that for access. But somewhere I'd never been? No chance.

They only announced that one yesterday. http://rezzable.com/blog/rightasrain-rimbaud/greenies-ride-free

So, I have to ask at this point - how many of you willing to pay 199L to get into Black Swan answered "Yes" to my question of "Would you pay to attend a live performance?"

Hmmm.

This is a case in which you cannot necessarily apply what you know about the way in which your First Life functions to the way in which Second Life functions.

The reason that many First Life establishments can charge entry fees is because it's relatively easy for a customer, before paying the fee, to find out what will be in the establishment. Whether it's by some national, well-documented reputation (Disneyland), or robust word-of-mouth from trusted friends (the best bar downtown), information flows much more freely in First Life than in Second Life.

In Second Life, every transaction is a risk. It's hard to verify what one might get before making the transaction; there is never any recourse if one doesn't get what one expects after making the transaction.

Typically, I wouldn't feel personally offended by anyone trying to make an honest buck. They made an honest attempt to persuade me to part with my money; I wasn't persuaded. That's how business works.

Either the sim-owner charging the sim entry fee is going to find it unprofitable and have to give it up; or, the sim-owner is an entrepeneur who has discovered a better way of doing business than I had imagined. Maybe I'm the fool passing up a great opportunity. Either way, no reason to be mad at the sim-owner.

My guess is that the reason that people might take personal offense at an entry fee for an establishment in Second Life is that it probably seems particularly presumptuous when almost everywhere else is available without an entry fee. So you think you're so much better than everyone else, that you can charge an entry fee?

I also suspect that a vast majority of the Second Life populace has, like me, a long list of purchases that they regretted because they couldn't (or didn't) verify what they were getting before paying for it, and then can't do anything about it after paying the money. The sim entry fee probably evokes memories of past regretted purchases.

I would, gladly. I don't expect people to be shelling out $295 a month as an act of charity for my amusement. There are many great sims in SL that exist primarily as works of art, like Greenies for example, that are plenty visually entertaining that they're worth paying an entrance fee for. It's pretty sad that people forget how much effort and expense goes into creating the places that they take for granted out of a sense of entitlement. That attitude is why so many great sims disappear because they don't get enough financial support to cover the costs of running them. It's a part of SL's culture that absolutely has to change if we want to see permanent attractions that offer something other than shopping.

If I thought I would enjoy the sim enough to make the price worth my while I would pay without hesitation. Or if the amount was something I could afford to risk on the chance that it might be worth it. If it was more than I wanted to pay I'd leave and forget about it. It wouldn't occur to me to be indignant about people doing what they want on their own land.

Basically, it feels like a slap in the face when you show up and you are banned with no explanation. There are sims I visit regularly and I tip well. I spend $20 to $40 per month -- real money -- on tips, donations and purchases. I have bought their products and tipped their club and staff during parties. I feel like a steady customer how has now been told that I have not paid enough.

Also, I am not a supporter of the commercialization of SL. I think it should be a social hangout for people to get together. Big companies are not flocking to SL trying to make a profit. SL businesses are not likely to ever make real-world money. This is a game, not a business platform. Isn't the world commercial and greedy enough already? I play SL to get away from the real world and not be constrained by corporate interests to make a profit.

Paying up before entry is, by definition, the "oldest profession" isn't it?

Thanks, Mari. From the video I can imagine it as the kind of place you might take a date or a friend too as a treat.