Bank Ban Needs To Be Amended To Include All Financial Operations.

If you need protection from doing something stupid, you shouldn't go out of your house, let alone get on the intarwebs. You see, it is a series of tubes that you can get sucked down into and molested.

"Protection" from oneself is so last millennium.

Learn to protect yourself, or you will be forced to learn the hard way. That's life.

Thanks, but I don't need or want a nanny. If someone else does, they can pay for one.

- No user content
- Not all users on the same server cluster (understatement)
- 90's graphics

And yes i tried it

Oh please.

Sl is a Tinkertoy compared to WOW.

Makes me wonder how you would do when they suddenly fire the entire police force and army...

Anyway, there is a difference between protecting residents, and have an active role in fighting scams in a platform one owns. So Linden Labs, in my opinion, have a duty to stop the scams as soon as they arise.

And WoW is a rock?

Ya geee lets fire the entire police force.


Thats so last millenium.
Goink

Yes they should, but as any Policeman will tell you, the individual is the biggest factor in prevention. For the most part the Police and Fire Depts come in after the fact, to investigate a crime, to put out a fire. While their presence is a deterrance to an extent, as least as far as crime goes, we have to make responsible and educated choices in everything we do, and SL is no different. I will say that LL should take more responsibilty than they are in both investigating these things when they happen, and I think they could do a better job of educating residents as well. But in the end, I don't want a Linden Nanny holding my hand every step of the way either.

The police force doesn't protect me from crime. Officers and soldiers don't appear out of thin air and stop perpetrators from committing crimes, and neither should I require them to come save me from burning myself on the stove, or giving some schmuck my money who promptly disappears with it.



Sure they do, and that is the point. They CANNOT protect anyone from being scammed. What they CAN do is help educate people as well as boot the scammers when they are found. However, that does NOT absolve the individual of responsibility for his/her own actions, nor should it, which is what many people here continue to argue for, day in and day out.

What you forget is that the fact they are there, make a lot of potential criminals withhold themselves from crime. Of course they cannot stand between you and the thief.


Of course the individual does have resposibility for their own actions, I never saw anyone argueing that though. Linden Lab should enforce their TOS better, because they are responsible to a certain degree. Stupid decisions from residents they cannot prevent.

For that matter I never unsterstood residents buying for a few hundreds of real dollars land from an estate owner they do not know and did not do a bankground check on. Linden Lab should not make it so easy to scam people with Estate land deals. Residents should not part from their lindens so easy. That about sums it up.

Brenda,
To the above I can only agree. Neither do I want a nanny, I think the fact that Linden Lab is a USA company already makes rules much stricter then I would like them. But since I choose to play, I choose to obey Stricter TOS is not something I am in favour of. Putting some more effort in holding up the current TOS would be a good idea though. Having an active role in closing down those so called investment organisations would make a good example of that.

Have not read the entire thread due to lack of time... but wanted to say that yes there have been lots of scams, which is why whenver you invest (Real Life or Second Life) you need to do your homework and check out the investment and all the details behind it. Make sure you know what you are getting into and the people behind it (not just the idle claims of an avatar, but the real people behind those avatars and their past track record).

And I agree with something someone else said that you need to have the real name of the person who is handling the funds... which is why people who are serious about investing should check to see if such info is available before hand (which it is actually a requirement in order for a company to even be listed on the Ancapistan Capital Exchange).

Also, never invest what you can not afford to lose, regardless of if it is a Second Life investment or a Real Life investment. As ALL investing is risky and should be treated as such, however as mentioned above, while scams happen in both SL and RL investing... the more you know and the more research you do before hand, the less likely you will get scammed and/or lose your money. Also note that just because people have lost money, does not mean that an investment is a scam, as sometimes investments are just plan bad anyways and you can lose simply due to bad management or a change in "rules" (be it Linden Lab's change of how they are handling or enforcing things, or in how the Real-Life markets operate).

(this thread is fairly necro, btw)

So, after doing due diligence on an SL investment opportunity, one might have enough information to put one's money in something with negligible liquidity, no SEC oversight and no plausible mechanism for external accounting, in an economy six orders of magnitude smaller than RL, using a currency denominated in wishful thinking.

It doesn't need banning or regulation so much as a label warning of excess absurdity.

Well put. Many SL problems are addressed in the TOS, yet without enforcement, they remain problems. We all know adfarms are banned, yet they're as popular as ever. When read closely, the SL TOS bans several types of bots by virtue of how they function, yet bot usage is as popular as ever. A rule is worthless unless it's enforced, and LL refuses to enforce it's own rules unless the given situation compromises LL's business interests. Until someone gives LL serious legal trouble over their refusal to enforce their TOS, this will never change. LL gains nothing by making sure residents obey the rules in regards to each other, so they don't put any effort into enforcement. That is just the way it works.

Last year my exsl hubby was on the high hog because of his "investment" in one of those "high yield" institutions. He was all over me about depositing funds in the bank he used. When I posed the question, is it FDIC insured? You know, he actually laughed. But who had the last laugh (not in his face of course) when all his monies depleted in the ponzi scam. I also have friends who's sl fortune's were wiped out as well and some never recovered. Some are still trying to recoup their loses from those institutions.

So, for me common sense is what I use. Anytime I get tempted by such offers, I revert back to my own question, is it FDIC Insured. I really feel bad for new citizens that get caught up in the allure of these institutions and their promises.

Even if they were to have regulated banking, I doubt I use it. Most I would probably deposit would be 100L. I rather convert my sl dollars and put them in a rl bank to draw real interest that is FDIC insured. But that I guess is just me....

As for furries having sex with donkeys, it probably does happen. But, honestly where do you hang out because I haven't seen it. But just because I haven't seen it that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Again, this is sl and with that, I may not like one's choice how they engage themselves in sl but I can manage how I engage myself in the game.

Oh, I did see a furry yesterday at SL5B, she had on a bad ass dress which I asked her where she got it from. I'm sure her donkey loved her in it.

One reason LL has poor efforts in dealing with some things is: Nobody reports it for them to deal with, they don't have big brother monitoring everything on the grid!

As for these, would you trust some random stranger to hold your money if they did not have a registered bank or investment company that was licensed to operate with regulatory insurance so you don't lose your money?



@ Sable: Most furs tend to dress well I think we're more vain than the human avatars at times... with many constantly tweaking the avatars to suit them.

There is not one single exchange in Second Life that is regulated by the SEC. To illustrate how dangerous this really is, the same person who owns the Ancapistan Exchange is also founder of the SLEC, the in-world (and toothless) securities exchange commission that supposedly regulates it.

We say our protection is knowing who these people are in the real world - that would be fine, if they were operating under the auspices of the United States Securities Exchange commission, but they're not. They're using Second Life, instead, as a means to obscure the true nature of their business, citing the fact that Lindens are not truly currency. However, the ban on gambling indicates that Linden Lab is sufficiently unsure of the status of their virtual currency that they're willing to listen to the Federal Bureau of Investigation with respect to the observance of gambling laws that restrict Internet gambling.

Either the owners of these virtual exchanges are correct in their assertion that participation is a kind of game (which makes risking money in the game a form of online gambling, very illegal and already banned by Linden Lab) or they are NOT a game, in which case they are operating unregulated securities exchanges using Second Life as an exchange medium (also very illegal).

The banking ban was insufficiently broad in scope. Linden Lab banning banking without banning all other operations based on unregulated financial transactions was like bailing before before plugging the hole in the boat first. All that happened was that these illegal and unregulated "institutions" pivoted in place and transformed themselves into some other type of company that while equally unregulated, did not have the word "Bank" in their name.

Businesses in Second Life which make their money by charging fees on other people's financial transactions are operating in violation of United States federal securities regulations, or are in violation of United States online gambling laws. If not one, then the other. Claiming "it's just a game" should not protect these people, and it is the responsibility of Linden Lab to ensure that these businesses are completely COMPLETELY shut down.

Um...just in case you missed it, LL banned the "banks" months ago.

I'm not saying there aren't any, but AFAIK, there are no significant "stock exchanges" operating in SL since WSE was exposed as a scam.

If you DO run across someone advertising themselves as a bank, investment firm, or stock exchange in SL, dealing in $L, you're a fool if you give them your money.

No, there are still several exchanges still in operation, don't kid yourself there. Ancapistan is still going, for example, and the owner of that exchange is using the funds to support sims for the now infamous "Woodbury University" /b/tard group. Many members of this group have been permabanned for various violations, including disclosure, use of CopyBot, hosting and promoting organized griefer gang activities, et cetera - to the point of having an entire sim deleted.

There are real life class action suits against at least one of these in-world exchanges - I would say that this is still an on-going concern, and something that Linden Lab really ought to be dealing with.

The WSE is back in action maybe in restructured form but i havent got the time to do any looking atm

https://www.wselive.com/

or search WSE in world as they have the sim running so who knows what is happening with these SL financial organizations But i totally agree that its foolish to give unregulated and uninsured organizations money unless you got money to lose that is the sooner LL gets to grips with this sort of thing the better as new people are going to be suckered in when combined with LL slick marketing that you can earn money here easily. Just my 2 cents

I thought today was pirate-themed...what's with the zombie thread?

Zombie Bank Guards ?

Sounds a lot like that WoW bank of Rebecca's

Yes WSE is back but nolonger using L$ but W$ or WIC and their atm only lets you diposit not withdraw.
offcourse both the WSE and WIC (the company handling the buying and selling of W$) are fully owned by luke and regustared companies in australia.
only a hand full of the listed companies are actual SL companies, the rest are trading funds trading with eachother and in eachother.

the strangest part that I'm still trying to figure out is that my own company want from an ipo of 10 L$ to about 8 L$ before the update to 50 L$/W$ now with the only logical explanation being that several companies delisted during the update.
before anyone sugests, I made no profit of the sudden rise becouse company owners can not trade in their own company.

I try to find some sympathy for the people who lose money to these scams, but I just can't summon any. I suppose it's a reasonable argument to say that depositors likely assume that because these schemes are allowed to operate that they must be on the level, but I would never make that kind of assumption myself. On the contrary, when I see these things, I automatically assume that they're scams, and I find any other assumptions about them alien and impossible to comprehend.

Dare I ask - can someone give a short summary of what goes on with wse live these days?

As I understood it, it used to be a vehicle for investment, using $L - which seems to require regulatory oversight by 'real world' authority in order to be allowed.

Not looking to be snotty, just seriously not getting the concept. What, exactly, does anyone get for putting $L into their 'atm' if nothing comes back out these days?

Is it just a sort of paid entertainment? Or am I really missing the point here?

Unregulated, uninsured, anonymous and untouchable. WSE doesn't even use the $L, their "currency" is merely a ghost of play money.

I don't follow their sleazy escapades, but the last thing I heard was that if you didn't "re-register" your account, they'd zero it out and take all your money. Not that they haven't taken all your money (all their investors' money, that is) anyway.