Buying Land on Private Estates

OK, I just don't get it. Why would anyone buy land on a private estate held by someone else? At first, it seemed like a good idea. A covenant protects you as well as others there. It makes for a great themed community, and protects you from eyesores, ad farms, laggy neighbours, etc. There potential for great landscaping, community areas (parks, waterways, etc), as well as well parcelled out plots.

But the more I think about it, the more I don't get it. You pay someone a bunch of money, but they can take it away from you at any time. You still pay tier fees, too.

Basically, the best that can be said is that you're renting the space (break the covenant and see what happens), but with a huge upfront cost and a (possibly) smaller weekly rent. I argue that it's not the same as owning mainland, as the Lindens are far less likely to screw you around. I have also read that many people have faith in certain owners, which is great. But they are still far more of a risk than the Lindens, regardless of their best intentions.

So renting I can understand, but why is there a sustainable purchase model? Is it simply a matter of faith?

Am I missing something here?

Love.

You can also get more prims, and in some cases pay a lower price than LL.

Beyond that, it's simply the case that some of the landlords have developed such strong reputations that people will trust them. Technically, even if you buy on the mainland, LL can take it away any time - but people trust them not to. It's just the same with other landlords.

You don't need to be Premium to 'buy' on private islands, so that also reduces overall costs.

Possibly. But anybody budgeting costs would factor that in, and the landlords know it.

Conversely, I would argue that you don't have to be a premium member to 'rent' on the mainland...

Love.

So it seems "six to one, half-dozen to the other." Is there an issue here?

Something I get in the private estate I don't get on the mainland is a support staff who keep the common areas free of junk due to normal patrols, no ad farms, no clubs or camping chairs in residential sims, and immediate help when I need it.

The tone of my question might be unclear, and for that I apologize. I'm really just trying to see it from the other point of view. I want as much information as possible before one day buying.

Love.

My understanding on the matter is this: To buy a private island requires a significant upfront investment on the part of the estate owner, plus an ongoing carrying fee. If their model is rental only, then they are going to have to factor the purchase price into their rent, and probably be looking at a longer delay before they start showing a profit. In addition, their rental rates will be higher to factor in the purchase cost ammoritzed over what ever time period they want to use (1 year, 2 years). So their rental rates will be somewhat high, and it will take them some length of time to break even, let alone see a profit.

On the other hand, if they can pass on the cost of the island, by "selling" the land -- even if they don't make profit on the sale, even if they only break even on the sale -- it allows them to turn a profit on the rental much quicker and with a lower rental rate. This makes it more palatable to invest that money upfront.

So now to pass this on to the end user / tennant / resident level, how can you make it attractive for residents to come and buy on this island, bearing in mind the caveats and concerns listed by the OP? Well, you 1) make your island attractive and desirable, 2) price the original land purchase at a favorable level, and 3) make your rental rates also at a favorable level.

Obviously there does have to be a level of trust or faith on the part of the buyer, but if you have an attractive, desirable estate, that will help, and you can then start working on building trust / faith among your customers and potential customers.

For what it's worth, I have an island with residential lots and I do not sell land, it is strictly rental only. My business model is based on the fact that I love SL and enjoy participating in it, so I can afford to aim for 'breaking even' and don't need to worry about a quick return on investment. (Slightly confusing the issue, I do use the 'land sale' tools, so residents 'buy' their lot with the first month's rent. This way they get all the powers of land ownership, even though it is strictly speaking, a rental.)

-Atashi

Atashi, excellent post. I can understand the landowners desire to cover initial costs quickly... of course they do. Same as in RL. I'm just surprised that the market is bearing the behaviour.

To me, a premium in rent (over tier) is a reasonable cost for the added services you have mentioned. Making the whole thing viable with a rental model.

/me shrugs

BTW, do you have any land for rent now?

Love.

Love, that's a huge misnomer. It's all renting. Think of the upfront "buying price" as a security deposit you have to pay when renting, which you get back when you "resell" the parcel to a new tenant. Basically, you do the island owner a favor by looking for a new tenant.
Island owners quickly get their money back by "selling" parcels, while keeping ownership. The rent they collect goes to paying tier and profit. If for any reason the tenant is evicted, they get to reposes the parcel and "resell" it (more profit). Should he/she one day decide to sell the island, well, that's just huge profits.

I've certainly been very happy with the parcels I bought from a previous owner (or renter, if you prefer) in the FairChang Isles. The neighbors are nice, the place is quiet, the management is friendly and responsive.

Yeah...it's based on trust. But then, what isn't?

Atashi's excellent post sums up my position exactly, with the one difference being that I am prepared to "lease" plots as well as rent. That said, only one person did that - and then had to sell back for personal reasons. I bought it back at the price she paid, less the tier. To do less would be less than nice in my view, and I am not here to have a nasty SL, or make anyone else's that way (save idiot mafia griefers lol). I don't ever expect to make a "profit" - well I might in 3-4 year's time I guess - I just enjoy SL, and want others to do the same.

And as you asked Atashi - I (as do many here lol) do have lots to lease or rent - pop by Fatimas Love or Fatimas Desire for a looksee.

Whatever you do, make sure you talk to existing residents and examine the covenant carefully before committing.

Hope you find a great place in due course

Inc

For me, the main reason to 'buy' a parcel in a private estate was that it offered the features I wanted, and was available when I wanted it, from a reputable landlord. It was waterfront; it was zoned residential - meaning no clubs, casinos, ad farms, etc.; and it was well-managed, by a staff that won't put up with griefers or people who disregard covenants or property rights of others. And at the time, I only paid something like L$7 to L$10 per M2 for that land, when even the worst Mainland was going for L$15 and more per M2.

To find an equally nice private island parcel, where I could pay only monthly maintenance fees on, with no up-front fees, would have taken far longer to locate, if it was available at all.

Such a parcel would be impossible in the extreme on the mainland, for rent or for purchase, where the lack of zoning or involved landlord management allows anything and everything to crop up next to your property, with no recourse. I could find the perfect mainland waterfront parcel today, and just as I get it the way I want it, have an ad farm crop up next door filled with porno ads, while someone puts up a field of flaming toilet plungers on the other side as their idea of "art". No thanks.

I am not a Premium member, as I have absolutely no interest in the anarchy of the mainland and the constant battles with greifers, ad farmers, clubs, and similar issues. So it is also far cheaper to buy on a private island, because I don't have to fork over an additional $72 USD per year to LL for the questionable 'privilege' of letting them be the ones I directly pay for land. Though there are certainly some well-managed sims on the mainland, like the Caledon sims that Desmond owns, there is no difference renting from him on the mainland versus renting from any other reputable sim owner on a private island, save than that must also I pay for a Premium membership that I don't want, and that near that landlord's borders, anarchy still reigns supreme. For no matter how well Caledon or some other well-run mainland Estate is managed, they still can't control what they do not own.

My newest lands are in a private island sim where the sim owner is a friend, and he was willing to let me have a huge chunk of the sim at no cost, just for my covering my fair share of the maintenance fees. He ate the purchase price for the sim as a cost of getting what he wanted for his own home, because he lives there too. But most sim owners are more interested in getting their investment back and turning a profit. They can't wait 3 to 5 years to get back what they paid to set up the sim. And I think it is quite reasonable to support their start-up costs and management efforts by buying land from them.

So now I have one chunk of land that I paid for, which is for sale, and another that I live on and only pay maintenace on. And at some point, someone else will look at my nice 8192 M2 waterfront parcel that I now have for sale, and will make the same decision I did, that it's a good deal for them at the time, and offers what they want, and I will have made back most of what it cost me to buy that land. Assuming, of course, that The Lindens will stop trashing the value of all LL real estate by dumping more new mainland sims on the market per day than anyone wants or needs.

And does this happen in all regions of mainland?

A risk I agree but this is not so commonplace on every piece of land or region.

The problem is, if *you* can readily find a parcel for sale at a reasonable price on the mainland, so can the ad farm cutter or the laggy club owner or whatever other nightmare neighbor you can imagine. So the availability of land in a sim at a reasonable price tends to be directly proportional to the propensity for trouble, in my estimation. The only really nice areas of mainland are the established sims that have long-term tenants who have no intention of ever selling or moving. And you can't buy land there, unless you know the land owner poersonally and they are doing you a favor.

I've only rented in two locations, and neither had an upfront price.

One I rented because I really liked the Sim, and thought it would be nice to have something there as "mine" to change in or the like, it wasn't that much to rent, and I liked giving the Sim builder (ack, Island builder) a certain amount of money without outright donating money. The other was free to begin with, and then I renewed for another month for the same reason as the second place I rented (except I also build in this one and store my builds there).

Break the covenant you have with LL (AKA TOS) or fail to pay tier and see what happens to the mainland parcel you think you own.

It's the same principle as owning mainland, however mainland has the most trustworthy landlord in the whole of SL. The key issue is whether you trust the landlord you're purchasing land from.

Agreed. It's all rent, with varying up front and long term costs. And risks.

Love.

also ...

on a private sim, you are constricted in what you can do (if anything) to the land itself. on the mainland, you can do whatever you want (within the natural land raise/lower limits).

tho you can not terraform much on a pi ... neither can your neighbor.

on a private sim, you more than likely cannot build a sky deck. on the mainland, you can do whatever you want.

tho you cannot build a sky deck on a pi ... neither can your neighbor.

it pretty much depends what you want to do with the land. and how much control YOU want over it. and, in effect, how much "control" you want over your neighbors via a covenant.

and tho i have know ppl that "buy" land from a pi and never been burned ... i HAVE heard horror stories of ppl who have "bought" pi land and then lost it to an unscrupulous owner.

as was said earlier, it's 6 of one ... 1/2 dozen of another.

They CAN take it away, but chances are they won't. Linden could take mainland away if they wanted.

It is best to know who you're rentin' from though -- just pick a large well known landlord.

They have too much invested to just randomly rip off peoples.

That I agree with you, it really is about price.

Actually i was under the impression it was the other way around. Most mainland sims (though not all) are restricted to +/-4m from baked. On the pi where I live I dug a 16m deep grotto under the house and raised land about that much, though some estates may be more restrictive.



Most private islands do in fact allow sky platforms, though many restrict their minimum height (generally they must be above 350m, though it varies from estate to estate).

we're basically saying the same thing, kevyn.

on the mainland you can raise/lower the land within a limited range. on a pi, you are limited by the convenant of the sim. you certainly can't raise the land by 60 meters tho the owner of the sim could if he wanted to.

as for skydecks, there might be some that allow them. but those i'm familiar with frown on such things.

what i was getting is that on a pi you must conform to the convenant of the estate. whereas if you actually OWN the land, there is no such convenant other than the land height/depth limitation.

but of course, on a pi EVERYONE conforms to that covenant.

Really? What's the thinking behind that?

eyesores in the sky