OpenSim Export into SL Grid?

Despite Philip Rosedale's promise at SLCC this year that we would enjoy much improved stability in this and the previous quarter, nothing has changed.

I am considering getting OpenSim and keeping a local sim so I can at least work then export my work into SL - is this possible? Perhaps at least LSL could be cut & pasted if there is no interchange.

Anyone have any thoughts/answers?

Thanks!

it's planned, whether it will happen before the end of this year is another thing.

I've got a little grid of four islands running on a laptop. It's sort of fun when you're desperate, but storage is primitive, scripting almost non-existent and I wouldn't say you'd get much out of it in terms of useable content on the normal SL grid at the moment.

DG

Thanks for your replies folks!

I am checking out the OpenSim website and the scripting language is still in development and also different enough that it is not interchangeable without some tool to retranslate.

On the flip side, the OpenSim scripting language is doing things - like writing to notecards and using textures from the web - that we only dream about in SL

Thinking about this, I ended up with the functional spec for CopyBot.

Just found this thread =)

I did a little digging into OpenSim's inventory. If I looked at it right, all the objects can be exported to an XML file by typing this into the server's console:

save-xml2 (or save-xml) nameOfFile.xml

Reading the dump, I think I pinpointed the main atributes for a single prim. Linked prims, haven't quite looked into yet. However, I noticed that prim.blender utilizes an XML structure to import prims into SL from blender.

Perhaps a converter can easily be made to rez, edit values, and place a linked set of prims?

P.S. - I'm including a link two two .xml files exported from OpenSim for you to look at. razxml.xml is a snippet for easy reading of one <SceneObjectGroup>, full.xml is a complete dump, and sample_v1.prims is an example of the XML format that the prim importer (there is a directory for that too if you want to look at the rezzer script).

http://studiometal.com/opensim2sl/

I'll probably take this link and post down if no one replies ^^ I just would like to be able to build for SL more, and I don't have a connection to the internet whenever I would like to, so OpenSim has let me test out sculpties and builds.

The prim.blender was gpl'ed, and I think the prim importer script is too- so I'm hoping there's no problem with me reposting those folder outside of sourceforge so you all can immediately view and try things out.

Not exactly the same concept, but after reading that a few people use OpenSim to test textures without repeatedly paying 10L each time to upload to SL, I set up a sim on my laptop to test my sculpted items and, wow, so much easier. Once I get the look I'm going for, just upload one texture to SL. Nice.

Seems like a lot of effort to go through when you could simply log on to the beta grid.

I have an 2-sim standalone island from OpenSim (Open Life download). Generally it works well. You have to make all your own stuff but the library contains some useful textures. I even look like me, with the same vital statistics, although most of the work on the island is done by Test User, who has the default Ruth appearance.

But the island is not connected to any grid, so there's no social interaction except me talking about it and posting my snapshots of it on Flickr!

Dumb, dumb question ... the OpenSource sims don't cost anything do they?

I still don't see the point of using an OpenSim other than the thrill of owning your own sim for free :

It's a good question, but not a simple one to answer as there are several open source organisations.

Open Life - has a grid that they are selling or hiring out sims on at the moment.

Open Life also provides an easy-to-use (relatively) standalone sim(s) that you can download free to your own computer. They are not connected to any grids but you can make your own private island.

Central Grid is another online grid similar to Open Life.

OpenSim - that is the project that developed 'SL beyond LL' which Open Life, Central Grid and others use.

Having a standalone island gives you a whole sim to play with - terraforming, building - snapshots etc. What it doesn't provide is any kind of social or commercial interaction like SL does. Some people have expanded their standalones to contain several sims.
Our island, Wootonia, is 2 sims.

In Second Life, RLs individually log in as unique characters to interact with others on the grid. With a standalone sim, there are no terms of service, so passwords needn't be secret. So whole familes can use a standalone island, or even young children could have one without risk of seeng unsuitable content.

I am running 4 regions on a dedicated server with OpenSim, I am not connected to any grids at the moment. Its not cheap to lease the server but its comparable with my current tier levels in SL.

So far this has been a great place for my friends and family to mess around in. I would guess OpenSim is within a year of growing even with Linden Labs in terms of feature support and stability.

By reverse engineering the server code as they have done I think they have really brought it up to date with current platforms, mono and C#. It would stand to reason that the code developed in this way would be cleaner and more efficient than the orginal source, and also leverage newer technology resulting in better performance and scalability in the long term..

The challenge will be to somehow join all these fragmented worlds into some kind of cohesive and intuitive network.

Some things are different and probably better in OpenSim. Linden Labs Second Life grid will always have a certain appeal, due to the people already there and the content they have created. The shift in OpenSim will probably be towards smaller more personal virtual spaces where commerce and public interaction with other users may not be as important.

The commerce to fill these worlds with content is something that is available outside the Second life economy, through more traditional CGI skills and channels, one would expect this industry to benefit from an open source server.

-whyroc

......eh....I still don't get it....so hopefully one day there will be another Second Life?

In reading all about these other options, I am still clueless as to how to get the stand alone sim to run on my home PC. Do you need special software or something because I did everything I could find including changing the shortcut value to include the number at the end but it kept trying to log onto SL.

Could anyone point me in the direction of a guide...like one for the not so savvy on these types of things lol

No there will never be another second life, I like what SL is an will continue to participate in it and hope it continues to prosper...

..but I appreciate Open Sim for alot of the things Second Life is not. There is not much point going into detail.. either you get this statement or your don't.. each to his/her own..

-whyroc

The Open Life website has a 'ready-to-run' standalone sim to download. Your computer needs to be adequate for it to work properly.

Steps:

1 - Download the ready-to-run standalone to your computer.
2 - Make a copy of your SL shortcut on your desktop - WindLight one works fine.
Rename it something like 'Standalone' to save confusion, and then under 'properties', change the login url to that instructed for accessing Standalone on your comp - you can find details in the Open life forum.

Now you have all you need to run a standalone sim. To run it you
1 - Start the sim - you open the OpenSim file and then from the list you open/run the OpenSimLAUNCH file and a new window appears. Click the green start button and the sim starts up - might take a minute or so to load everything - BUT you wont see anything yet!
2 - Using your the Standalone viewer you've made, log in as with SL, but with the name first [Test] second [User] and password [Password] - I mean you actually have 'Password' as the password - and you should appear in your sim as a default Ruth in red trousers!

I discovered the OpenSim project on Christmas when I stumbled upon the OpenLife website. Right now, the stand alone is quite useful for uploading textures and sculpties to make adjustments before paying 10L in SL for upload.
I've spoken to the guy that runs OpenLife about the possible future of OpenLife and the OpenSim project and the impact it could have on SL some day.

Eventually, they will start having inventory transfers in OpenLife (and other public grids) meaning that, yes, eventually there will be freebies. Sometime within the next year to 1 1/2 years they will try to incorporate a type of money/credit system just like the L in secondlife.

Soon, they want to change it so you can run OpenLife on their client and not SL's.

So, yeah, they are planning some big changes to OpenSim altogether.. with the possibility in the future, each grid could be connected to each other with some form of IM system, and possibly inventory system as well.


I have checked out CentralGrid, DeepGrid, and others but didn't get much of a response like I've seen in OpenLife. Also, we have a community area on the OpenLife public grid that we are still building in a gothic themed style.

Did anyone yet successfully import anything into SL that was actually created in an opensim grid?

Yes.

But not by the intensely automated way that you might think.

Honestly, making an alt, doing your thing in a standard SL sandbox at some ungodly altitude and handing it over still works far better.


I've not said much about it, but yes, I've run my own little grid for a long time.

- No, nobody can log into it - I'm busy enough without creating a novelty like that.

- No, there's not much there.

- Yes, I've looked deeply into the possibilities.

- Yes, I think the main grid is better in terms of survivability for Caledon residents, and will be for a long time.

* * * * *

Here is what I see: convergence.

By the time opensim grids are really comparable, except in a standalone, noncommercial, arty, downtime-ish sort of way... the service will cost more.

Meantime, I see the main grid becoming more competitive when this happens, because, well, going out of business would suck.

There should be no convergence until there is some kind of protection for IP. LL and the grids will have to reach some sort of agreement about protocol for handling IP. Content is what makes the world go 'round - First, Second, or otherwise. Without the content, it would be bland and dull.

If it means that entering new grids means having to acquire your own assets stored there, great... kind of like the Terminator having to show up naked in the time travel bubble. But logging in shouldn't mean that my skin, hair, clothing & attachments open themselves up to being stolen.

I can see a lot of us in open-source traveling clothing due to that.

The problem won't go away. I think the 'sell an item I've created' model won't die overnight, even in a supposedly copy-everything world.

So you'll see grid-islands of great content where IP protection is enforced... and not-so-great content where dubious activity and piracy rules the day.

Content creators aren't stupid. This is a big part of the reason why I'm keeping my estate here; a truly premium environment requires rule of law.

However, it's quite possible some places may eventually do more in with respect to rule of law, than this grid. It's going to be some exciting times, that's for sure!

The debate is already ongoing though, and it'll be settled and decided long before the general public even hears a whisper of it.

The current vote seems to be for creation grid only by default which means that everything that is currently created in SL and will be created in SL for the foreseeable future will never be able leave the SL grid, that includes anything full permission and your own creations unless you created everything - including the textures - yourself.

The other options are "trusted grid" and "any grid", although there isn't currently any definition of "trusted grid".

As long as "trusted grid" means along the lines of the current LL and IBM agreement (RL established company, legal agreement etc) then my preference would really be "trusted grids". If any third party enters into a legal agreement with LL to treat the permissions the same way LL does then there's really little reason not to have it that way.

"Any grid" isn't a viable option for obvious reasons.

Although I'm sure some content creators are salivating at the thought of being able to sell everything to people a second time with "trusted grid" set this time around.

Both of these things don't exist in SL for a reason. That's the problem with OpenSource projects, people enthusiastic about a feature will add it, but that's not to say it's a good thing to have or that they implement it correctly.

Writing to notecards means that scripts would be able to create assets; with all the asset troubles we have at the moment that's not a good thing. Likewise textures from the web is a bigger issue than it seems due to performance mainly; SL's textures are limited to optimal (power of 2) sizes, and a particular format (JPEG-2000 which is actually really pretty good).