yikes! The map's half yellow!

I've been in her 'Cyberia' chain of sims for quite a while now.
They're located to the east of her Plush sims and her central hub.

Cyberia is rouphly 29+ sims of double prim lots and plenty of protected land with some nice beaches on the perimeter.
It's really strange cause as long as I've been there, 6 months, it's always been fairly 'yellow'. Couldn't even sell my main lot, so needless to say I'd never buy Dreamland again.

I still have my gallery there on a 1024m plot which is irregularily shaped and a custom build. when they notified us about the new policy I sent a note to an angel telling them that I can't stay if they butcher the land and take the 16m from the SW.
Turned out they didn't and instead took it from a piece of the surrounding protected land.

Cyberia is actually a nice area, too bad in a way.
Intelligent Winds (216,14) < one of the sims in Cyberia.

Anshe owns the land yes, same as LL own mainland. If buying Anshe land is renting then buying mainland is renting.

Thank you, Steve.

I'm trying this now, and they all appear to be what I would call "rentals." Do you mean I should be able to find actual Islands for sale? (transfer of ownership to Avion Raymaker)

One would think that there would be estate owners around who are anxious to get out from under tier, and sell for less than the going island price, but I'm not seeing it.

two ways, at least, to find islands:

1- in land sales search, look for parcels of at least 65536 sm. That is a full sim.

2- Look in the land forum of this board. Sometimes people will advertise there.

3- One more: sometimes people use the Classifieds to sell their sims.

Steve,

Thanks again for the advice. For choice 1, those are all still rentals, but I did find several in the forums (both asked to be contacted, neither were online) and I found 1 in the classifieds.

As for people dumping their Estate holdings, wow, you wouldn't know it by trying to find any for sale. I'm probably just going to buy my own the way everyone else does.

-Avion

True enough, Ciaran, if you generally mean "you pay somebody a lot of money to use this land."

In the Land sales and rentals forum, sometimes people post that they want to buy Islands.

3 for sale right now in the land sales forum:

I dont understand why people dont add a term to make this easier. Lets see...


"Selling" land = buying mainland that you own and pay LL tier on

"Renting" land or property = paying a weekly or monthly rate to another SL resident

"Leasing" land = paying an SL resident a down payment on the land and then paying a weekly or monthly rate (in Ls or $s) to them instead of LL.


Wouldnt this make the guess work easier? As far as I can see it, leasing sucks. I wont do it (I rent from Steven in this thread and have my eye on a plot next to me in case it eeeever opens up lol) and that is hands down the best way to go. I understand about leasing, I guess, but in the end I would still have to release it to someone else if I wanted my money back IF I could make it back. Then there are those that you have to lease from and if you want to leave, tough, you are out that down payment really. So renting is good.

Thats just me trying to add in a word and help with some leasing, selling and renting confusion lol

Nope, sorry. If you buy land from a SL resident and then pay a weekly or monthly rate to that resident and you can resell that land, then it's the same model as LL themselves operate. There's no technical difference as far as I'm concerned, they are both leasehold models.

Ciaran, this really depends on your need for the land.

I can make no use out of land that I would "buy/lease/rent" from an estate owner (at least in every case I've ever seen). The technical difference for me is extremely significant.

Adding layers to land payments is the difference. Do I want to pay someone I dont know and have no way of contacting? No, this isnt an option for me. I expect a degree of trust between myself and the party Im paying. I have that by purchasing land directly from LL. I would expect that from someone else but there is no way I can be assured. If LL goes under, everyone goes under. Including someone you have been making payments to and ultimately have no control of the sale of the island or region.
This is why I can understand and back Mistyn's idea. Anyone who claims they are selling me land that they still have control of is lying to me and has gained zero trust. If you want to lease it to me tell me, dont lie to me.

I'm sorry, there is a major difference as far as I am concerned, between mainland and private land. There are dozens of differences, but I wont waste my time pointing out what most people already know. You are working through another person, and not directly to LL. Its different, period. That is the point of the added term, to make obivous that there is a difference.

This is a completely different issue. LL are the most trustworthy landlord here full stop. The point is trying to say that you're not leasing from LL is complete and utter balderdash.

So LL are lying to you then, because Philip quite clearly says you own it, however it's as clear as day that LL own it.

The term "Buy" comes from the model that Second Life employs. When you click on the land, there's no "Lease" option. The pie menu says "buy".

No the point of the added term gives a false meaning to the mainland model. There are indeed many differences between private land and mainland, covenants, zones, rules, fees but the principle is the same.

Now if you really want to start getting into definitions you need to start by differentiating between private estate you can resell and private estate you can't resell, they are very different models.

??? Why can't you make any use of it?

It can also be stated you never own land RL. You lease it from governments. Hopefully ones you trust. So what I am saying and always have is I consider LL the government here and I am allowed to buy land from them. Just as the US allows me to buy land in RL.

I don't think that is an assertion that I would try to make. I can definitely see your point that everything is a lease in a sense.

What I would try to assert here is that when I "buy" from an estate owner, I am definitely not an "owner" in any sense that would work for me. I don't care what terms you want to use for it, but the distinction is very clear and very significant.

Once again, Mr. Shang proves himself my hero. Desmond, kudos to you for being someone who actually UNDERSTANDS how this little virtual economy we've got works...and how to make it work for Good instead of Evil.

/me worships the prims you walk on.

I own freehold land. Now the government can build on it, they need to pay me for it. They can of course put in a compulsory purchase order but it's my land.

My friend owns leasehold land, when his lease expires he can lose everything. That's the LL model, you don't pay your lease, you lose it. They close down, they owe you nothing. It's leasehold.

*sigh* Lets just skip the point then eh? I was introducing the word to help with the confusion that many obviously have with the terms that LL has left us with. Good grief, its not that big of a deal to say that instead of 'buying' from residents it could be deemed as 'leasing.' No no, you are right, instead lets just keep dealing with confusion and go only by what LL has in the client. By your posts lets only stick with the confusion already present, or toss in a ton of different meanings.

The MAIN difference....

Buying from LL is direct, payments go to them and short of violating the TOS or not making payments, the land isnt going anywhere and you can do what you want, sell when you want, chop it up, kill the land value around you etc.

Renting from a resident is paying weekly or monthly, amounts of control are limited.

Leasing from a resident is 'buying' their land which they retain full control of and can poof at any time as well as paying them the weekly or monthly amount, again controls are limited.

Sure there are a million different ways to then describe 'buying' or 'leasing' from a resident, but the thought for the new term was to make it obvious this is going through another SL player...not LL.

If I am tossing down a chunk of cash I would rather that LL was the landlord instead of another resident who can do whatever they want and I could just lose the money in the end. I dont want to put down a chunk of cash anyway, this is why I rent. Cant understand why you are so hell bent on making 'buying' or 'leasing' the 'same' in both respects, it clearly isnt and everyone who rents, buys or leases should be informed of this. Though, sadly, many are NOT and lose a lot in the end.


edit to add...for pity sake LL, please get the coding fixed! I want to use italics and not caps to emphasize a word!! *grumbles*

I would personally prefer the term leasing to be used full stop. I can see how "buy" and "ownership" sound warm and fuzzy, but we wouldn't be having this debate if the term lease was used, we'd be debating about why people have more faith in LL than private landlords, which is really the important debate.

I think the problem is that you are arguing politics, all of which I agree with, and others like myself are arguing game mechanics, which are far more important to my business model.

If we must be technical then I would call them......

"Leasing" land = buying mainland that you own and pay LL tier on

"Renting" land or property = paying a weekly or monthly rate to another SL resident

"Sub-Leasing" land = paying an SL resident a down payment on the land and then paying a weekly or monthly rate (in Ls or $s) to them instead of LL.


Perhaps this wording would remove the stigma of the word "buying"

For me, trust has nothing to do with it. I don't even want to enter that debate. I would fully trust many estate owners, Desmond for one. All I care about here is whether I can use the land the way I need to.

Now thats the better word for it, even if we didnt use leasing for mainland land. I just know too many people that have been burnt by paying an amount for a private island only to have the 'landlord' change the cov and terms, raise rent, and refuse to let them sell again. Users that dont visit the forums or have past experience might just think they are getting land at a great rate (4 per sqm, which is still pretty close to mainland now) only to get a stick in the eye later