Hard work ain't enough anymore...

I hate to rant about SL being more and more like RL nowadays, but I feel really disappointed now.

A little more than a month ago I decided to try something different than only creating shapes: creating a female skin. As I'm pretty much a perfectionist, I decided to check as many available skins on the market as possible. I've seen tons of demos, as I've checked the work of 48 different skin designers. Some of them were pretty good (actually bought a few skins for my girlfriend here and there), but most of them were only average, so I started to believe that I might achive better results than most of them.

I worked on the skin for about 250-300 hours, which is a lot. (And I'm aware that there's still - always - room for improvement.) I really wanted to create something special.

I don't know if it became actually special, but I definately know that it 's very good. I was able to surprise even myself (my biggest critic, you know).

There's only one problem: nobody seems to care. I tried several different methods of advertising, posted in these forums, added some nice handmade freebies to the Free Dove and Sarah Nerd's Freebie Paradise, climbed higher in the places list, but I couldn't do 2 things:

1. I can't get my traffic up to above 8000, that's needed to get on the first page in the search if you type "skin", and that's the same number if you want to show under the "all" tab after typing "skin".
2. I can't pay those extremely expensive classifieds - at this moment, 4 of the big skin designers have classifieds for at least 140K a week, and at least another 10 above 40K/week.

My results are shocking so far. In 7 days, 8 people have bought at least one my demos for 1L$. 8 PEOPLE!!! Altogether!!! 3 of them actually bought the skin(s) for 6500L$ altogether. I have no idea what's going on. If the skin would be simply bad, I should have absolutely no sales, but about 40% of the people who actually tried it, ended up buying it too.

I don't want this thread to turn into advertising, so I won't post the name of my shop, just want to ask you, what you think, is the skin too bad, or it's simply time to announce - you can't get anywhere in SL without real funds nowadays?

Here's how the skin looks (the shape's in the price too, and the eyes are free in my shop):







Anyway, I'll try a few more advertising methods, but I'm starting to lose confidence...

Did you have the shop before? What was your traffic before you added skins? How long have you been on the market with the skins?

Are you in a mall or free standing?

A week??? It took me a few months to get my very small business established. I doubt those spending big bucks for ads and accumulating massive traffic did it in a week...

Man, I'm no idiot, I obviosly didn't expect thousands to come immediately and worship me just because I created a skin...

But 8 people in a week is horribly low, no mather which way you see it. Even 80 would be low.

I have my shapes store for about 6 months, the average revenue was about 15-30000L$/month, but I have to admit that I didn't pay much attention to it in the past few weeks, so the sales declined heavily recently.

To answer the questions too, when I opened my shapes store, I had 7-8 sales daily in the first week, and I'm not talking about demos, full shapes for 400L$. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

I made about 8 sales my first week. I was pretty excited.

Kenbro is right - it will often take more than a week, especially for a new business to be noticed.

Your skins business is probably doing worse than your shapes because, to be blunt, shapes are a less competitive market. Skins, on the other hand, are one of the most competitive markets - because they're one of very few types of product that's targeted at "social" users but that still costs in the thousands of L$. As a result, many people buy only one or two and then stop. If you want that one or two to be you, that takes a lot of marketing work, which unfortunately is irrespective of work creating a good product. Does that suck? Um, yea, actually it does, but I have no idea what to do about it.

Traffic is very difficult when you're starting because, since you have only one product, people do not need to spend time at your shop browsing and trying things out. Fortunately, traffic is not actually that important in being found as a business. Make sure your skin has a distinctive brand name, and that you appear high in search when that brand name is searched for (which is really easy when you're getting to _choose_ the brand name!). This makes sure that when someone tells someone else about your skin, the someone else in question can find it as quickly as possible.

Rent lots of mall locations with walk-through traffic and make sure they have landmark dispensers, and that any and all information notecards they give out have your landmark too. Offer to share space with other new businesses, no commission either way, just traffic sharing. You can also try to get an established business to let you have space in their store (which can be tricky, but if you ask _very_ nicely, it's possible), but this might not be a good idea for a skin, because remember your customer is likely to only buy one or two and the established business' skins will be right there.

Once again Yumi, I'd say you're right, if we'd not been talking about demos. Demos cost 1 L$.

I've bought well over 1000 demo skins in my 6 months SL career, because I know that a skin is expensive, and I know that I have to choose carefully, so I try as many demos as possible, before I commit to the one I want to buy. All the people I know do the same thing.

So imho it is totally logical that I expected to sell more demos than 8 piece. Think about that, it means only approx 2-3 visitors a day!

By the way, skins market is more competitive, because it's a much bigger market. It's much easier to successfully advertise shapes, so if you're good, people will find you in the end, but that should also work with skins, cause a lot more people are buying shapes than skins - just check how much shape designers pay for their ads, they're nowhere near the 140K.

Oh, one more thing, traffic doesn't really matter, unless you have a lot. Check big skin designers like Nomine, Sin Skins, Puss & Boots, etc, they have less traffic then 5000/day, even I can get up to 3000 with a few tricks, but that doesn't get me anywhere. When all the others started things were wuite different, competition was less fierce, business was more of a hobby for most people. Now it's getting more and more professional, you either invest and work full time, or forget it, and it seems I'm learning it the hard way...

I would say 48 skin designers is probably a low number compared to what are actually out there. Skinning is a pretty saturated market now compared to 3 years ago when there were no more than a dozen people doing them seriously in SL. Nowadays some are serious, and some are dabblers, and yes, the quality is all over the map. Some people are here to make $$ as thier bottom line. Some are more interested in the artistry. I would say most designers fall into the middle ground because you have to live up to certain standards in order to get money and recognition for your work, and you have to promote yourself too. The competition is stiffer than ever and the standards keep getting set higher and higher. Throwing everything but the kitchen sink into marketing is one strategy. You don't need to be the Picasso of skinning to succeed if you are a wiz at marketing, and visa versa (the Picasso of skinning doesn't need to be a marketing wiz). Unless you are extraordinarily gifted at one or the other, you will have to employ both methods. AND.... you will need to be patient because a skinning business that is only a week old won't have any brand recognition unless you are riding on the success of some other brand/product.

My advice is - hang in there, hone your skills (never stop learning), stay humble (never convince yourself YOU are the best because someone will inevitably prove you wrong). Let other people tell you YOU are the best. That's fine . Make sure others are around when they say that (the forum is a good place for this).

Demos cost L$1 _if you are skin shopping_.

If you know that skins cost thousands of Lindens, and you're happy with your current skin and don't want to spend that much again, why would you buy any demos? Why would you even be searching for a new skin? Shopping for clothes would be much more fun, as you could buy more than one outfit before going back to your credit card..



And once you have bought one and are happy with it, do you still carry on buying just as many demos?

I don't want to be discouraging to someone just getting started with something, but IMO you're overcharging for what you're offering. I just went and bought several demos and, while they might do for a newbie, they're unlikely to impress anyone who's been in-world for a while...and a newbie would probably balk at the single skin price you have listed.

My suggestion would be to knock it down to maybe half the current price, work on your seams, shading, and differentiating the skin tones and makeups a bit more. You may eventually want to increase the price again, but get yourself a foothold in the market first.

There's a book that everyone in business should read.



"The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing: Violate Them at Your Own Risk!"

...by Ries and Trout.

http://www.amazon.com/22-Immutable-Laws-Marketing-Violate/dp/0887306667



There are a number of things wrong.

First, you weren't first to the market. Yeah, being first can be pretty darn important. Even #2 can have substantial advantages, by learning from #1's mistakes. Seems you were 49th to the market or so, if I understand your description.

Second, there's the problem of those original 48 different skin designers. Gonna be tough to even remember your name. Mindshare problem.

Third, usually markets shake out into the top 2-3 competitors, then all the rest.

Sometimes a category is big enough that there will be niche markets, such as hang gliders versus all aircraft. But within hang gliding, there will still be 2-3 names and then all the rest.

I won't even begin to talk about 'owning the category' - that's what really needs to happen to be a heavyweight on the market. Is your name synonymous with what you do, such as 'Xerox'?

* * * * *

So how to fix it?

1) Go into a niche market and totally pwn it. For example, make some category of skin. I don't know, alien skins. Elf skins maybe. Or something. Make your name synonymous with that subcategory.

2) 'Be' your product. I'm going to presume you aren't female from the name - perhaps women might prefer to speak to a female when talking about a skin? Or if you go into a niche - if you do elf skins, be an elf. Get known.

3) Realise that success in business has *very* little to do with the quality of your product. I'd say 95% of the grid's finest content is unheard of, and not even available for display or sale. Because 95% of the best creators are top creators, not top business talent.

4) Never quit. Ever. Businesses usually aren't defeated by competition, they are defeated from within because the owner just throws his hands up and quits. Keep coming. Loose, relaxed, lean and mean.


I think the trick is this: be self-assured without being arrogant - let people somehow get the sense that you are 'going places' with your product.

You may not be #1 now, but make sure everyone that interacts you walks away with the sense that they 'got in early', 'discovered you', and that they are in on a big secret by having found you. Yeah it's hard, but that generally means being cheerful, and no ranting. Even when you want to scream.

hmm i get more then 8 ppl a week with just an slx terminal and name it in the land desc

I didn't buy just one, I bought at least 15 skins in my 6 months, still not satisfied, looking for a better one. I bought 5 demos today...

But as you've mentioned above, you make L$15000/month from your shapes store, so you have much more money available. What if you were paying US$ for those L$, or camping for them? The bulk of SL users - your customers - aren't content creators.

Well, you've definately killed the potential of anyone buying based on this thread... (just kidding, I haven't lost my sens of humor yet)

Honestly, I've been thinking about that too, but I have 3 reasons, why I don't think you're totally right. Somewhere in between might lie the thruth, so I'll be thinking about dropping the price to 750 for a while...)

1. I checked the seams of all the "top skins", none is perfect, Some even has pretty big mistakes (don't want to name it), although I have to admit that I've seen a few nearly flawless ones (with different kind of errors...)

2. Did the same with shading - most of those expensive skins are extremely simple, the shading is almost non-existant. That might be a way to go, but I don't like the cartoonish look, I've been looking for something more realistic. Those that try to achieve realistic shading have a lot more errors. Obvious, isn't it?

3. At least 2 of my buyers were actually long time SL-ers, I talked to them, the first changed her Naughty skin to get mine, and the other has about 20 skins, and ranked mine in the top 3.

I never said that my stuff is the best, I know better skins than mine, but it's not bad either, and you can definately buy a lot worse skins for even more.

Of course, the market dictates the price, if I won't sell any for that price, I'll drop it in the end.

The bulk of skin designers didn't come out with anything new in the past few weeks, so all the people who are like me (and there's obviously thousands of people like me) have to buy demos from stores like mine, if they're looking for something new.

So I'm still not convinced, but I'm glad you're trying, slowly but surely building up the fire to get going again.

No skin is perfect, but I checked the line I normally wear after I looked at yours, and I couldn't find any obvious seams...I could see virtually all of yours. Neck, waist, arms, legs; I didn't detach my hair, so I don't know about that one.



The two places I disliked the shading the most was under the breasts and along the spine; too dark, too harsh. What bothered me more was the highlighting...it seemed almost speckled on the face and, while the effect may have been better with the included shape, the nostrils looked very peculiar on mine. Also too much white under the eyes and beside the spine.



Skins are certainly a matter of taste but, be that at is may, I try on skin demos compulsively and I don't feel that 1000L is an appropriate price for yours. Again, this is all just my opinion and, given the difficulty, I'll certainly never attempt to make my own skins....I'm just giving you suggestions for improvements I'd like to see.

Also, although you claim 36 makeups, a large number of them look very similar on the vendor pics, as do the skin tones. Actually, I'm not even sure if there's meant to be more than one of the latter. And there should be.



No, they're not bad, but the price you're asking is comparable to or greater than some of the big names out there...that's not going to help you make sales.

Did the pictures play any part in your decision to go and check those demos? There's no way you found shading or seam problems based only on the pictures, you had to get the demos to see any of those. But remember, I said that my problem is that I rarely sell any demos.

About skintones and makeups, I already created a totally different make up line called glamour (at least 12 new makeups coming), and I have 4 different skintones also waiting to be uploaded. My only problem is that I'm running out of my prim limits. (and I'm also running pretty low on cash, especially if I upload all this stuff...)

I also fixed a few shading and seam problems today (mainly around the abs, plus the one small seam on the left side of the head, (actually I've been working 13 hours on it today, tried a few new methods, and getting there slowly...), waiting for upload too. (Will have to reupload all faces and demos...)

Anyway, thx for contributing everybody, I won't say that you were too encouraging, but the main goal is to keep going, and several people sent me IMs and private messages in the past few minutes with great tips, so it was worth it.

Thanks again everybody!

Problem is there are alot of junk skins on the market and they cost alot of money. Since people don`t know how skins can be badly designed the buyer would never know. Example oiled or waxed skins. They look nice but it just looks like someone put plastic rap around the skin or whiteout correction paste on the skins. Not sexy just a lazy way to create without any time in to a skin. And charge alot of money. Have you talked to Chip Midnight? This is one of the fist major skin makers on sl.


Usagi

Nope, like I said, I'm skin demo compulsive. I figured I'd buy something if I liked them, or give you feedback if they weren't my cup of tea. I'm sorry I wasn't more encouraging, but I was trying to give my honest opinion...I think that's more helpful in the long run.

Looking at the pics from the links, the skin you have is very nice, but personally, I'm not liking the shading. Along the buttocks and legs seems harsh. Also, some "folding" along the elbows (yes, I know that's mostly the pose and mesh).

I only mention those things as input, not slams. Good skin over all.

Do remember though, that a person's shape can vastly alter teh appearance of a skin (and vice versa). I am very fond of my shape as I did it all on my own. If I try a skin demo and it brings out a look I don't like, then it's onto the next skinner. I imagine those buying your demos were along the same lines.

You may want to purchase 2-3 pre-made shapes from 2-3 seperate shapers to self-demo your skins while making them. You could also use this in advertising pics, letting customers see your skin across a selection of shaping. I say to buy the shapes, as opposed to making them yourself, because when I try to make a new shape for friends, I find myself building to the same shape as I have. Not exact, but close.

All-in-all, I'd count this as a very concrete start, it just needs a little more work to flesh it out. (Pun intended *Grins*)

~Jessy

Ann, c'mon there's only one skintone uploaded (another 4 coming) and it's the same on all pictures, but there's a huge sign on the wall saying that the skin is tintable...



Check the picture, that's the only skintone uploaded atm, but as you can see, it's tintable.

About the shading, one of my buyers directly mentioned, that she loves the spine, it's the best she's ever seen... Seems like a matter of personal preference to me, and the same applies to the highlighting. Most of "realistic" SL skins are intentionally "dumbed down" (that makes people look like toons), simplified to make it easier for the creator. I went the other way, I don't mind making a few mistakes if the end result could be something more, something better. If you're looking for very delicately shaded skins, I'm obviously not your designer, but you know what, I'll give it a go sooner or later, who knows...

Don't get me wrong, there are fantastic delicate skins too, I bought quite a few of them for my girlfriend, and I love the way she looks in those too. (By the way, the best imo is Celestial Studios, great makeups, almost faultless bodies, and a very nice face, I love there stuff)

There's only one thing I can't say a thing about, the seams, I know there's a few left in there, but not for long, I can promise that. Working on it.

Oh, one more thing about the price, don't forget that you get the skin, the shape (200L$ normally), and a pack of handmade eyes (250L$) for that money. Dropping the price to 500 would mean that I give the skin for 50, and even you would have to admit, that it's better than that.

Absolutely true, no problem with that, and thank you for your opinion. At least you've bought some bloody demos ))

You are competing in a market with some big established names. They have word of mouth, you dont. You are in the same price range as some of the HUGE names, btw.

Yeah, but when I buy a skin, I don't particularly want extra stuff in there...I like my self-made shape and I prefer to pick out my eyes independently. I know I'm not the only one, so you *might* be better off selling the skin as a 500L (or whatever) stand alone.

I did miss the tintable aspect, but I still think you need to get that expanded skin tone range up if you want to improve sales.

Celestial Studios Vogue is my preferred skin as well, so that tends to be the standard I measure others against. I definitely prefer a subtler look than what you seem to be going for.