New Branding Policy

Personally, I found the "thank God I'm not a lawyer" comment to be condescending.

I appreciate you stepping up and trying to stop the disinformation, Madhu. The problem is that OurHosts drop this stuff on people assuming that they read and understand the terms, and then it scares people into thinking that they cannot use the words in casual conversation. This in turns leads to much cynicism and snark about OurHosts, and you have to keep trying to correct these wrong perceptions over and over again.

Oh I guess so.

I took it as joking though.

"Thank God I'm not an Auto-mechanic" - I break enough of these acrylic nails anyway.

"Thank God I'm not a Doctor" - since I'm kinda sqeemish about people with bones sticking out of their skin.

"Thank God I'm not an Pilot" - because I am afraid of heights.

"Thank God I'm not a Linden" ...

It's cool - contrary to popular opinion, friends are allowed to disagree. It makes conversations more interesting.

I enjoyed getafirst.com I hope they don't sue. I thought the LL had posted in site saying
they gave permission in this case for this.

I wondered if the changed how people could use logo's or things like initials like sl or ll when I saw that.
At one point it was standard practice whether it was "The Sims" or any other site to encourage fans to put their logos on fansites.
And Linden Labs perhaps has re-thought the policy around this yet at one point they were
pretty much doing whatever was common practice at the time with logo symbols around
using this as way for fans to promote their product.
I never was into doing that personally because I can enjoy a product without the use of logo and always thought using other's logo was bit misleading that some how using this log on site means something more official.
Perhaps this why they changed this as way of protecting themselves from people in future going to example Joe Blow site who has very official looking website and their logo selling products and not providing the products. Unknowingly the Joe Blow customers aware they have scammed start blaming, threatening to have class auction lawsuit pressed against the company Linden Labs not Joe Blow who mysterious takes the money and runs, disappearing.
Just theory not sure if this is why though.

They get out of their offices, but it doesn't do any good. I had an eye-opening conversation with the CEO of one of Blackboard's competitors. He said that during the consideration of Blackboard's patent application, two federal agents spent two days interviewing him. He told me that their lack of preparation, inability to comprehend, and apparent apathy made him furious.

The academic world was shocked when Blackboard won patents for something that it obviously did not originate. But that CEO said there was no result that would have surprised him.

(Sorry for getting off the main topic as it relates to SL.)

Can we use (TM) and (R), I don't have the little circle keys on my keyboard

This is ridiculous. I haven't seen this much FUD in SL _ever_, and there is a whole LOT of FUD in SL. I've heard of one good friend who refuses to log in because he thinks agreeing to the new TOS is going to violate his free speech rights.

You can say Second Life Linden Lab as much as you want in forums, in chat, in SL, etc. You can blog about it all you want using the same words. The only real thing it covers are instances where the SL brands are associated with other products- such as being in the product names or literature.

Basically northing has changed. The change in the TOS doesn't take away rights- it just clarifies that you are not given any licenses to use the SL brands (which you didn't have before anyways). The only difference is that now, because Linden Lab is planning to police their trademarks, it would be unwise to name something using Second Life etc.

That was my point

Even IF the TOS would state you couldn't use it in chats or forums or similar (which would totaly insane and counter productive to the brand anyway) that part of the TOS would be overruled by tardemark lawas and the principal of fair use.

I repeat for the ones you still didnt get it: You can not be forbidden the use of a mark in a normal verbal or written conversation when identifying the mark the owner of the markor making reference to that mark, never. You can even use the mark freely in your commercial texts and literature if it helps to discripe your product in an accurate way.

Example: I am selling cloth for avatars in Second Life....is legal and legitimate (assuming you are selling cloths in SL.

Nor do you have to use the relevant symbols

The limitation is: you can not use a reg. mark as name for your own products or services. Thats all, no big thing, I am surprised it took them so long to register the trademark anyway.

Got it now??

Maggie

I am a marketing professional, I know this stuff.
marketing in second life

So they want to make sure their brand name doesn't become generic (like "aspirin" used to be a brand name!)...Second Life® refers to a specific virtual world from Linden Lab®, not just any old knock-off world.

But will these terms have the opposite effect?

Previously, if I had a blog all about Lord of the Rings in SL™ I might have called it "Second Life Ring Fans". Under these new terms, using their trademark in my name is not allowed...so maybe I'd call it "Virtual World Ring Fans" with further text "all about Lord of the Rings in the Second Life® virtual world".

Ok, so now I'm compliant. And lets say lots of people start re-naming like this. Now lets say several of our blogs/products/etc become fabulously famous. So EVERYONE knows about the "Virtual World Ring Fans" blog. And everyone knows it's about SL. Except if this happens with enough sites, everyone will start thinking that when "virtual world" is said, people mean SL. Thus making it seem like all virtual worlds are SL.

The opposite of what Linden wants.

It makes sense to require people to use ® and ™ some, and to have license disclaimers. But pushing people to not even use the word Second Life at all may have the opposite effect from what Linden intends.

I guess Linden would prefer I call my hypothetical blog "Jaszon's Golden Blog, all about Lord of the Rings in the Second Life® virtual world"...but not everyone wants to brand their stuff, is going to think to do it, or is going to be very creative about it. Some people just want to describe what they are, and that's it, no fancy branding. So I predict plenty of "Virtual World Ring Fans" type names.

Just look at how dull the SL Universe or Second Life Insider names are. Great sites, but not astounding branding. Which I think is no big deal...but it just goes to show, the general public doesn't think in terms of creating strong brands for their own sites. They just want to describe themselves for what they are and be known as that. And be known as the BEST 3rd-party SL forums, or THE source for inside news on SL, etc. They don't want to be "John's Forums" or "Karen's Insider"...they want to be the definitive SL Universe or SL Insider, and that's what they'll call themselves...or the "virtual world" variant thereof.

/me sighs

EVERYBODY who creates a brand would love to see it become a generic term eventually, that is the highest form of the art of branding. If Linden Lab achieves that Second Life becomes the generic term for virtual worlds the have the edge over any other virtual world - it meant SL would be considered the original, everything else a copy.

They WANT you to use the brand.

Btw: aspirin IS a brand name

Maggie

Nope. In the US Bayer lost the trademark of aspirin. Bayer's not happy that any maker can sell acetylsalicylic acid and call it "Joe's aspirin". Kleenex isn't happy that many people will say "give me a Kleenex"...yet the requesters aren't actually requesting a Kleenex, they just want any ole' kind of tissue. Xerox isn't happy that people say "let's Xerox this" when they really mean "let's use any old photocopier to make a copy of this". Coca Cola works hard to prevent "Coke" from becoming a generic term for any kind of cola.

Once you lose your trademark, your whole branding scheme falls apart. If "Coke" becomes generic, then all the fancy fonts & logos that Coca Cola puts out become meaningless. Lost in a sea of products that are also labelled "Coke". After a while, for Coca Cola to put out a can that says "Coke" would be about as meaningful brand-wise as to put out a can that just says "Cola". It doesn't push or establish or market your company at all, and doesn't create any brand-awareness or loyalty. You already see such "cola" cans in your grocery store and they mean nothing to you brand-wise, do they? Now imagine if "Coke" were generic and they all said "Coke". Then you'd see "Coke" as generic and it would mean nothing to you brand-wise. Coca Cola wants to make sure that "Coke" always means, to you, Coca Cola's Coke, not anyone else's. They've spent a lot of time & money on that name & associated branding.

Similarly, if EVERY virtual world is now just thought of as a "second life", and referred to as a "second life", then the *brand* name "Second Life" becomes meaningless. "Second life" then just means "any ole' virtual world", and just like Bayer can't stop people from selling "aspirin", Linden wouldn't be able to stop anyone from marketing their product as a "second life". A name/trademark that Linden has spent a lot of time/money developing & branding.

I disagree
no it doesn't

are we friends yet?

Then they should have followed the example of all the other companies you quoted: Xerox called themselves Xerox, not "DocumentCopier". Coca-Cola are who they are, not "FizzyDrink". Picking a descriptive bit of english as your must have brand is a nice neat way to LOSE all the court cases you intend to bring.

...which didn't work. I note that in the usual lawyerly manner, you want to point out exceptions, when the point I made was statistical: Aggressive pursuers are in the minority, I said. Statistically, they are: the ratio of uncontested uses of trademark terms, to trademark-infringement suits, is in the order of millions to one.

I can't think of a way that observation is amenable to refutation by reeling out exception-driven cases where my poster-children (IBM & Disney) chose to squash flat some dork who passed themelves off, after spending some time dormant: but if you feel you must disguise a sneer in a bit of advanced syntax, lest your self-aggrandized position suffer a reversal, then be my guest. Just don't expect support when you trip over the emotions of those dreadful unwashed...

That would be for mature areas then?

Well and I thought this was going to be an interesting thread.

Been sitting all day with a branding iron in my hands, because I guessed a lot of slaves would need a new brand. Darn Linden Labs... there goes my fun.

Well, back to selling stuff then I guess.

Interesting world this where computer geeks explain a marketing professional the deeper things of branding.

Maybe I should look for another job......??

Maggie

ALT+0174 on the numeric keypad

I thought the response you got was pretty fair, myself. Some of my RL background is in graphic design. I know a lot of the folks I worked with would hate to lose their brand. Seeing it become vastly popular is one thing -- iPod is a good example, as is Kleenex, etc. -- but you don't want everyone to have the ability to make a product and call it Kleenex or an iPod, if you own those names.

Mari

OK, I may be a little bit late to this party but *Our Hosts* may have a problem with the 'Eye-in-Hand' logo. I draw your attention to the surfer dude on the cover of Zap Comix #13 (published in 1994). Not a new concept and definitely one that has been visited before.

Was the "Surfer Dude on the cover of Zap Comix #13" using that logo to refer to an online virtual world?

Of course not as it didn't exist back then. All I was pointing out was that *Our Hosts* don't have a monopoly on the 'Eye-in-Hand' concept.

Myst Online has a very similiar logo also. And Myst was created long before SL.

http://www.guildofgreeters.com/images/stories/faq/cleft/cleft_journey_6.jpg

http://www.guildofgreeters.com/images/stories/faq/cleft/cleft_hydrant_open.jpg

http://www.guildofgreeters.com/images/stories/faq/cleft/cleft_journey_1.jpg

There is an idea, we could always refer to them as Lindins, Seocnd Live, etc.

When you register a particular mark, you can register it based on your particular representation. So LL can register their particular drawing of the eye-in-hand logo without registering the concept of an eye in a hand, which, as I understand, is an ancient symbol.

Magdalena - was that "got it!?" post aimed at me? We were agreeing.

Rha - were we ever not friends?