Should Free Accounts Go

My view on this subject is a little more complex than a simple yes or no. Should basic free accounts be allowed? Yes. Should basic free accounts be allowed the same "perks" as a premium? No. Should basic accounts be limited? Depends on how you define limited. I've always thought (since the opening of the grid back in June, 2006) that LL opened a can of worms that they would regret over time...........and I still think that way. In their short sighted view they gained population beyond their excpectations.......which could be a good thing if they were prepared to handle it (which, we all know, they were not). However, that is all water under the bridge and nothing can really be done about it.

I think there are ways to "limit" free accounts. It would be painful to some residents and definitely painful to LL but sometimes correcting mistakes are not pleasant. Just off the top of my head (I'm no business expert, mind you) LL could "grandfather" in all basic free accounts that are here now............though thinning the alts would be a necessary task to complete in a reasonable time frame (say 6 months) by requiring all accounts (premium and basic) to tie the accounts to one main account. After that time period (and sufficient notification) the untied accounts would be deleted. Population would plummet, I'm sure.......but, hey, it's painful. Then basic free accounts would be allowed to anyone (and even premiums downgrading) with no time limit to how long any member could remain a free account. However, the free accounts would "suffer" a few loses of "perks" that premiums enjoy...........say, free uploads of textures or pictures. The basics would be required to pay that 10 linden upload we all have to pay now. Or, the basics could be charged a "surcharge" payable directly to LL for land rental............something nominal like 3% doesn't sound too bad in my mind.

I know many are going say that's "penalizing" the basics.............and in a way, it is. But there has to be some incentives to go premium. Or just open the grid and cancel all premiums and go that way............but that really makes no sense to me. I know there is a way to make it work in an equitable way..........it just needs some hashing out in the LL conference rooms.

But, to be honest, I doubt anything will change for a long long time.

These laws are not new, and they will have minimal effect on LL's bottom line. European nations have had VATs for decades. What is new is that Linden Lab has apparently been advised that it needs to collect VAT taxes on its EU customers. From my brief look at some UK web hosting services it appears at least there, VAT is charged on similar services to SL, so LL may have been correctly advised.



Well—if they want to drive the SL economy into a tailspin, they can. There is a widespread and strongly-held misconception that free accounts are somehow a drain on the SL economy. They are not. Free accounts both buy goods in-world and buy L$ on the Lindex. They rent land, both on the mainland and on islands. They make up the bulk of SL's consumers. As the majority of residents, free accounts are the primary drivers of SL's economy.



While in some nations it may be subject to tax, a Premium account is not a tax. Further, a Premium account does provide benefits. At the 300L$ stipend level, a Premium account pays stipends worth ~57US$ each year. That's just 15US$ less than the price of an annual Premium account. Additionally, Premium accounts receive 512m2 free tier, and access to support tickets and live chat.



Taxation depends on local laws. It would be as unfair to ask non-EU residents to subsidize the taxes EU residents pay, as it would be for me to expect the EU-based residents of SL to chip in for my health insurance and retirement.



Unless you are looking for some sort of resident or LL subsidy of VAT taxes, whether EU-based SL residents are charged VAT taxes by LL has nothing to do with whether LL offers free accounts.

Hold on, the only perks premium accounts have is the ability to own land (and pay tier) and slightly better, but still derisable, support. I still pay to download pics.

I think free accounts should stay or at the minimum resume the CC/Paypal verification for them like in the old days. And I agree with someone else said, purge account if they're not used for a certain period of time.

this is a general question.......

but I DO accept there is such thing as free ... without being a ponse. I didnt say that free didnt contribute BUT .......

There are good land lords etc LIKE Ray .... they recieve payment from "payment info on file" folk fair enough ... but how does THAT effect LL .... in reality to most it doesnt as those payment gotowards the members tier for that island etc .... but eith costs going up .... for a lot of residents this may change. Again .... there is things like unfair competition etc ..... all of this is in antoher thread .... what I want to know is ... WILL LL change the system back ..... have e.g a 30 days trial with payment infor on file and then pretty much go from there.

I know I am a member and it might be seemed as member snobbery, but will SL change the system to be fair to those that are paying for membership and recieving similar bennefits. If land is to be taxed out of existance... ??? maintenance fees which again are taxed is that maintenance also to include inventories ... and what liabilities do LL have against backup of stock ...etc... .all these points have been questioned b4..... I guess the question is really ...

" If your a member do you want LL to stop free accounts becasue you feel that you should at LEAST get something for your money over the free access residents" or do you " believe that SL should be free to all ANYWAY with land being available to all regardless and monies paid on the land regardless of membership status"

Personally .... I think the FREE SL FOR ALL ...... would bennefit the economy far better .... maybe more land sales ... easier for people to handle tier etc .... it might even encourage more land ownership ...as that $10 a month COULD pay for a 1024 INCLUDING tax ...... just a suggestion

re: OP's post

No no no no no. Constructive enough?

I'm on a basic account, and I challenge you to step into my studio and see what I've accomplished, see the sim work I've done, talk to my clients, and then tell me I shouldn't be allowed into SL without paying.

It really irritates me that people think basic accounters are a problem.

And my personal example above pales in comparison to the actual number of talented, contributing, basic account users out there.

This a pretty cool idea. Linden could possibly generate a lot more cash this way. However, it could hit people renting out land (and tier).

Not a bad suggestion I suppose. It would save me $22.50 a quarter. But, jeeze..........think of the flood coming in and the land having to be made available!!! The rip off artists that would sour the world!!

"Free" invites irresponsiblity. SL would die a miserable death.

If I were to change my mind on this issue I'd say:


Suspend all non-premium accounts for 6 months.


Maybe the radical drop in new residents will kill off many
of the explotive rip off artists and land flippers that prey
upon gullible newbies.

Of course, you can't get rid of them, or griefers, entirely,
but it'd be fun to let them stew and scream for a while.

Of course, a lot of legit SL businesses would suffer badly too,
but that's a trivial price to pay. No?

Michael, I don't think that basic account holders are a problem. I do think that it's time to find a way to have all users of the system help pay for the costs. By spreading out the costs, perhaps the cost to each individual user would be minimized.

Washington State has been going through this very type of debate for the last several years - people want state government to provide services (like fixing the horrible highway infrastructure that makes Seattle traffic a living hell) but are unwilling to pay for them (in the form of increased taxes).

And would it hurt for you to throw a couple of dollars a month toward maintaing the service. I'm not even saying premium. What's the big deal over a Basic Account fee of $2 a month? No one is belittling your controbution. But I bet alot of griefers and general miscreants would leave, making it better for everyone. Barring technical difficulties in making payments, I don't understand the aversion to paying a lttle towards a service that we are all getting a lot out of. Maybe it's me.

Quoted For Truth!

Yes, I was a "free" (hah) member for about a month before going premium.

If you use it, pay for it.

I use:

Roads
Public Parks
Electricity
The phone lines
Gasoline
etc

I Pay for:

Roads
Public Parks
Electricity
The phone lines
Gasoline
etc

And before people start saying "but I'm basic because I can't afford premium..." I say "then maybe you shouldn't have bought that $1000 computer and $100-$200 video card to play SL."

That's why I can't see anything wrong with a Basic account priced below Premium.

It's LL's responsibility to their employees and owners to provide incentives for people to give them money for their product. The track record of capricious business decisions and uneven at best customer service has led me to not trust them enough to pay them directly.

For the people who are arguing that we should pay them so they can produce a better product, talk them into going public and buy their stock.

EDIT: I worried about this sounding too grouchy and that wasn't my intention. I just think that as a financial issue it's a business problem and should be dealt with as such.

EDIT AGAIN: I would have no problem with Brenda's proposal of a basic account priced below premium.

Exactly.

~Ari

The people that pay LL the most are often the people that profit off of SecondLife the most.


I doubt they want that flow of new residents cut off... it would reduce the percentage of "newbies that might be customers" and increase the percentage of "oldbies that are my competitors" in the population.


I can't see how they would want that.


It is the newbies that keep SL businesses going, who, in turn, pay LL.

If you disallow window shoppers you'll have far fewer 'shoppers' period.

Free accounts are NOT free!!! People, let's realise that non-premium members spend a ton of money, own land, pay tier, own businesses, buy in stores, tip at clubs and events, etc, etc.

All good and dandy. I can certainly go along with that. But, if those basic accounts who pay 1/3rd what I pay get exactly the same things I get then that would be a big incentive to go "basic" and let the premium suckers stay at that level. Prmium would go away completely..........which may not be a bad thing. I would sure enjoy a reduction in my quarterly, recurring hits on my CC. So what it seems you are saying is that LL should reduce the membership cost and make it mandatory for every account.

I think that would work. But then there would be no "fee basic" accounts at all.......what's the difference in getting rid of "free" accounts? You are basically saying that "free" accounts should go away.......if I'm reading your post right.

But Linden Lab only gets a percentage of the money spent. That is what most of us are saying. Premium accounts are "money in the bank" for LL. Something they can go to a lender with for a business loan much like banks do with their accounts. The folks who come in to cash their checks only indirectly help the banks. The account holders are their bread and butter.

The basics help, but at a much lower rate than the premiums. I'm not looking for any trophy for my contribution to LL but it would be nice if more joined me.........life could improve if they did.

Perhaps if having a premium account was made WORTH it, having a lower-priced "basic" alternative might be worthwhile. But the plain and simple truth is this...your premium account has DECREASED, rather than increased in value. Stipends are lower, service remains abyssmal, First Land is gone...LL has done nothing but consistently de-valued their so-called "premium" service.

The only real "premium" accounts are those that qualify for the incredibly snotty-named "concierge" service. Those that are willing to drop over a c-note a month on tier.

When LL begins providing a product that will not eat inventory, consistently performs well, provides a responsive answer to griefers, brings back a responsible level of in-world help....THEN...and ONLY then...should they feel justified for charging people money.

I bow to the sheer genius which has allowed Phil Rosedale and crew to dupe so many people into paying HIM to beta-test his product. He's got to be the modern-day equivalent of PT Barnum.

The Basic SL account should remain free. Premium should be cut to $5 a month...TOPS.

SL hasn't increased in value and service...it's done the opposite.

Don't throw more money at the Lindens until they prove they can actually deliver on the promises they've made by unrolling this platform.

No it would not. LL is not a charity.

Please believe me - I truly do know what I'm talking about here - LL does not need your 10$/mo. Premium accounts now contribute less than 20% of LL's revenue stream. LL is growing fast, very fast, they are adding people as quickly as any small company could. More money - and even more people - is not the issue for them right now. They desperately need to find a few of the exactly RIGHT people.

Also please believe me on this, they can get more money whenever they need to. The only thing more money would cost LL is that current stock/option holders would have a smaller percentage of the equity.

I am a real Linden cheerleader. But LL is a high-rolling high-tech startup. They DO NOT need the pennies of students or schoolteachers to "make it". Personally, I think their fee structure should eliminate all small fees -- the ones that impact those with little budget who are still gracious enough to help LL wring out their shiny new platform.

I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but LL is a company. Just like your local grocery, if they don't make their product ... premium membership ... worth it, then people should not buy it. So what? If premium fees were an essential part of LL's business plan, then they would restructure premium membership so it made sense for people to buy it.

Tho more aggressive than I think the case merits, these are basically true statements. LL may have needed premium memberships when they started ... and they really needed the sense of clubbiness, the rah-rah we-are-all-in-this-together feeling it engendered. Now ... I don't think that's the way to pull together the citizenry. If they care about that, they need to do something smarter.

This question has been asked so many times..... I really do not think posting it over and over is going to change it. I do not really think free accounts are the problem. The problem is the people at Linden Labs. They have no control over anything it seems or at least it seems they select not to have any control. Free accounts open the door to some bad stuff yes but if Linden Labs would police their own world better then it would not be an issue.

I've been 238 days as a free account holder, now I would never have been a SL addict if there had been a charge to start playing from the beginning, however, if I have to pay sometime in the future I'm very likely to do so. I had seriously considered buying an island soon, more likely as a Christmas present to myself, well vat as scuppered that idea for a while longer I guess.

Anyways I do have info on account and I have exchanged £50 into L$, so I have put some money into SL and of course it's gone direct to the player base and not to Linden Labs.