Turn that d*mn TV off !!
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Taylor Bayliss
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 144
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05-06-2007 12:17
Just got back from the new beta grid with voice enabled.
It was both good and bad, off to one side, there were 3 avies talking away, normally, just as they would in typed chat mode. But close by, somebody was also watching TV in RL, complete with the laugh track - his/her mic musta been really sensitive. Some people were too loud....some too quiet.
Also. lots of "Testing 1-2-3..........", "Can anybody hear me ?", and "move your mic further from your mouth". This will take a while to get used to, and a whole new set of voice etiquette rules to get used to - "Turn your TV off, and your radio, chase your kids outta the room and please, quite chewin'/breathin' in my ear!!" - lol
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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05-06-2007 13:36
Some folks enjoy a little breathing in the ear from time to time. Hopefully LL has some plans to assist people with voice chat right when they enter SL for the first time. Some folks will want to start talking right away, I suspect. Some microphones are designed to pick up sounds from all directions, omnidirectional mikes. This is what you don't really want for voice chat. Other mikes are designed to pick up sound from the user's mouth and reject sound from any other direction. This is what you do want for voice chat. Some mikes electronically cancel out the ambient noise and leave the voice signal, sometimes called active noise cancellation. Some mikes that are labeled noise cancelling are really just designed to limit the direction from which sound is picked up and limit teh frequency of sounds that are picked up. Selecting the best mike for voice chat is not a trivial task. Getting the best mike in the world still doesn't eliminate the need to use some courtesy and common sense, as Taylor mentioned. I don't think we'll really have much idea how the voice chat will work out socially till it gets tried on the main grid.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
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Ramble Delpaso
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 14
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Ooo, No he di-int...
05-06-2007 13:54
Maybe I'm odd (and I'm about to find out, I guess!), but I tend to say my thoughts aloud while playing SL... like "Good point, yea!" and "Don't take that crap from her!". Since I know nobody can hear me it's relaxing, and spares everyone else hearing my needless chatter. If I'm using voice in SL I'd need to curtail that to some degree, particularly in groups where I don't know everyone very well. That's going to subtract some of the 'comfort' level- for me, anyway. Or should I voice my 'peanut gallery' comments anyway  That could make things very... interesting.
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Taylor Bayliss
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 144
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05-06-2007 15:09
From: Ramble Delpaso Maybe I'm odd (and I'm about to find out, I guess!), but I tend to say my thoughts aloud while playing SL... like "Good point, yea!" and "Don't take that crap from her!". Since I know nobody can hear me it's relaxing, and spares everyone else hearing my needless chatter. If I'm using voice in SL I'd need to curtail that to some degree, particularly in groups where I don't know everyone very well. That's going to subtract some of the 'comfort' level- for me, anyway. Or should I voice my 'peanut gallery' comments anyway  That could make things very... interesting. And. how many times have we all typed almost a full sentence, thought a bit more, then backspaced it out - no such chance in voice. Fortunately, there won't be a "history" button, so you can always claim you said something a little different. Typing out chat is slower of course, but, it does give one a chance to think a little before hitting the <enter> key......
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Jacquelin Seisenbacher
Registered User
Join date: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 156
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05-06-2007 15:46
haha! like in RL?
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Lynn Kukulcan
Registered User
Join date: 7 May 2006
Posts: 149
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05-07-2007 02:47
There is apt to be a resistence to people who don't use voice chat by those that do. A lot of them will assume we are hiding something. In some cases, we are. I am a transsexed woman. What this means is I was born with an intersexed birth condition known as transsexed. I am a girl with a boys body. Now, if I were to use a microphone, people would have the pleasure of hearing my deep "Hey, Bubba!" voice instead of the sweet, kind, caring voice of the sweet, kind, caring person I really am. And they would get scared and run away.
No point in that, now, is there? So I'll stick to typing. Not that I type really *that* slow, anyway.
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Zaphod Kotobide
zOMGWTFPME!
Join date: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,087
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05-07-2007 04:45
I believe there are two modes to choose from: 1) Push to Talk 2) Always On I am exactly the same way. I tend to verbalize my reactions to things I see, things people say, etc. Push To Talk is our friend! From: Ramble Delpaso Maybe I'm odd (and I'm about to find out, I guess!), but I tend to say my thoughts aloud while playing SL... like "Good point, yea!" and "Don't take that crap from her!". Since I know nobody can hear me it's relaxing, and spares everyone else hearing my needless chatter. If I'm using voice in SL I'd need to curtail that to some degree, particularly in groups where I don't know everyone very well. That's going to subtract some of the 'comfort' level- for me, anyway. Or should I voice my 'peanut gallery' comments anyway  That could make things very... interesting.
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Katier Reitveld
M2 News Manager
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 412
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05-07-2007 04:56
From: Lynn Kukulcan There is apt to be a resistence to people who don't use voice chat by those that do. A lot of them will assume we are hiding something. In some cases, we are. I am a transsexed woman. What this means is I was born with an intersexed birth condition known as transsexed. I am a girl with a boys body. Now, if I were to use a microphone, people would have the pleasure of hearing my deep "Hey, Bubba!" voice instead of the sweet, kind, caring voice of the sweet, kind, caring person I really am. And they would get scared and run away.
No point in that, now, is there? So I'll stick to typing. Not that I type really *that* slow, anyway. There are a lot of reasons people won't like or use voice. I often have music or TV on when in SL and it doesn't demand my undevided attention and I have my hands free to type, so why talk? I've used voice in combat flight sims, and there is truly is a benefit, but the only people I can see really having a need for it are business's for conferencing where they want to use voice either for historical reasons etc. Also of course the sex industry will use it to an extent but other than that, in a relaxed environment like SL, voice is far from essential. It's ironic also that SL is getting voice.. in a world fast moving away from voice ( text's, e:mails, forums etc. ).
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Rock Ryder
Registered User
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 384
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05-07-2007 05:27
From: Taylor Bayliss And. how many times have we all typed almost a full sentence, thought a bit more, then backspaced it out - no such chance in voice. Fortunately, there won't be a "history" button, so you can always claim you said something a little different.
Typing out chat is slower of course, but, it does give one a chance to think a little before hitting the <enter> key...... The point about History is a very valid one, and could have unforseen consequences. With typed chat and IMs there is always a record to produce griefing reports be needed, or proof of commerical dealings (several times I have had to produce proof of a quoted price when the supplier had forgotten). I wonder how long it will be before we get the first posts in the forum asking, "of course, this was all done in voice, so I have no proof....."
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Wynx Whiplash
Registered User
Join date: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 339
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05-07-2007 05:44
From: Lynn Kukulcan There is apt to be a resistence to people who don't use voice chat by those that do. A lot of them will assume we are hiding something. In some cases, we are. I am a transsexed woman. What this means is I was born with an intersexed birth condition known as transsexed. I am a girl with a boys body. Now, if I were to use a microphone, people would have the pleasure of hearing my deep "Hey, Bubba!" voice instead of the sweet, kind, caring voice of the sweet, kind, caring person I really am. And they would get scared and run away. Oh, there are ways around that! http://www.screamingbee.com/product/MorphVOXJunior.aspx I think the thing I hate is that I haven't figure out how to turn everyone off. I was skulking around the beta grid a few days ago and someone was throwing f-bombs all over the place and I had my speakers on and my child heard it. I can curse with the best of them, I just wasn't prepared. I will be next time - headphones for mommy, or the speakers off. Still, the constant CHATTER just about drove me up the wall. It will take getting used to. It's not really a feature I want, since it sort of forces us to use it or at least listen to it. If I want to speak to someone I just get on Skype - that way we can all opt-in or not.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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05-07-2007 06:41
An option to keep from HEARING voice should be available.. wonder if LL thought of that?
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Virrginia Tombola
Equestrienne
Join date: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 938
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05-07-2007 07:53
I was under the impression that if voice was not enabled, you did not hear people's endless natterings, but could still hear sound effects, music etc. I certainly hope so. I truly hope this voice thing is a passing novelty. Frankly, at first I thought that it might be nice for classrooms, but really, now that I think about it, it is far easier to read/take notes/ask questions in a text environment than a blather (excuse me...voice) environment. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other use (oh, I do fly and do aircombat. But I do Steampunk aircombat, and the wireless was not in use until after the Great War. It'd be cheating to use voice  ) Socially? Even leaving aside the truly wretched aspects of "who is talking?" (I suggest everyone look at the YouTube video. *shudder*), the background noise, and the exclusion of people like Miss Kulkulcan, what do we have? A noisy conference call. If I wanted that sort of environment, I'd get a job in a drive through window at a fast food chain. I use SL to relax, and thus have very little interest in this abomination. Er, feature.
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Xio Jester
Killed the King.
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 813
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05-07-2007 09:43
From: Taylor Bayliss Also. lots of "Testing 1-2-3..........", "Can anybody hear me ?", and "move your mic further from your mouth". This will take a while to get used to, and a whole new set of voice etiquette rules to get used to - "Turn your TV off, and your radio, chase your kids outta the room and please, quite chewin'/breathin' in my ear!!" - lol LOL! Takes me back ta team play in online videogames w/ voice...most of em was Military, Gang vs Cops or other s**t where COORDINATED chatter was needed so EVERY time a "n00B" joined or bought the game this was the regular "default conversation" @ first, heheh
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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05-07-2007 10:37
Probably just my luck, but I logged on to the beta grid to peek at sculpties. Upon arrival the first thing I heard was someone whistling (rather shrill, good thing I didn't have headphones on  ), followed by 3 people hurling obscenities and profanity at one another. Using "speakers" to find out who to mute turned out to be quite pointless, not only were there a good 10-15 names listed, what I think was supposed to indicate active speakers showed 6 or 7 of them (I guess their breathing/background noise was causing the indicator to light up). Meanwhile I had to endure the "conversation" and after a few minutes still didn't know which ones in the crowd were doing it, so the solution was to simply turn voice off altogether and enjoy the silence. Maybe it just takes practice, but if it's really that difficult/impossible to find out who to mute/AR (being forced to listen and actually pay attention to get a spatial guess really was my main annoyance with it) then I don't see voice taking off in any public space other than Linden owned land.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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05-07-2007 10:50
/me still thinks voice was 99% driven by business clients having private meetings in their own sims (or maybe even private grids).
Not that I have any problem with that. I just don't see it being very useful in public areas.
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Katier Reitveld
M2 News Manager
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 412
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05-07-2007 10:57
From: Meade Paravane /me still thinks voice was 99% driven by business clients having private meetings in their own sims (or maybe even private grids).
Not that I have any problem with that. I just don't see it being very useful in public areas. Agree 100%
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Stone Saenz
Owner, The Landing Strip
Join date: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 8
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05-07-2007 10:59
THANK GOD for Push-To-Talk. Coming from organized MMO and FPS play, voice chat was an integral part of our interaction. Sometimes, it's just a pain to turn a microphone on/off when you're having a coughing bout or are chewing gum as you play. Now, if you could just initiate a voice chat IM and/or add people to an IM. That would be nice.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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05-07-2007 11:04
From: Stone Saenz THANK GOD for Push-To-Talk. Coming from organized MMO and FPS play, voice chat was an integral part of our interaction. Sometimes, it's just a pain to turn a microphone on/off when you're having a coughing bout or are chewing gum as you play. Now, if you could just initiate a voice chat IM and/or add people to an IM. That would be nice. How about a Push-to-Listen for those of us not interested?
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Sonia Nagy
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 364
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05-07-2007 11:07
As one with hearing problems, I hope those that only type and do not talk/listen are not forced out of SL. The impression from the thread, though, is that this issue might not be as big a problem as I originally thought.
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Simon Nolan
I can has ur primz?
Join date: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 157
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05-07-2007 12:19
From: Rock Ryder The point about History is a very valid one, and could have unforseen consequences. With typed chat and IMs there is always a record to produce griefing reports be needed, or proof of commerical dealings (several times I have had to produce proof of a quoted price when the supplier had forgotten).
I wonder how long it will be before we get the first posts in the forum asking, "of course, this was all done in voice, so I have no proof....." I don't know what's available on the PC, but there's this wonderful program for the Mac called Audio Hijack. It can record any sound on your Mac. Which would include voice chat. Of course, it would be a beyotch to start it running every time I log in, just in case I get griefed. If I had a big hard drive for hours worth of audio, maybe I'd try it. From: Banking Laws How about a Push-to-Listen for those of us not interested? Check your prefs: the checkbox that says "Enable voice" or whatever it says.
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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05-07-2007 12:32
From: Taylor Bayliss Just got back from the new beta grid with voice enabled.
It was both good and bad, off to one side, there were 3 avies talking away, normally, just as they would in typed chat mode. But close by, somebody was also watching TV in RL, complete with the laugh track - his/her mic musta been really sensitive. Some people were too loud....some too quiet.
Also. lots of "Testing 1-2-3..........", "Can anybody hear me ?", and "move your mic further from your mouth". This will take a while to get used to, and a whole new set of voice etiquette rules to get used to - "Turn your TV off, and your radio, chase your kids outta the room and please, quite chewin'/breathin' in my ear!!" - lol I wont be bothering with voice chat I can hear enough nattering already. I also have a habit of tripping over the cord for the headset and ripping it to pieces 2 days after i bought it so after going through 3 mics/headsets in a space of a week for about 300 bucks total i gave up. Also people have plenty to complain about anyhow so why give them something else to complain about, besides they will then be able to complain about the fact you dnt use voicechat so its all good and ads up to the same as far as that goes lol
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
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05-07-2007 12:43
*moves*
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Taylor Bayliss
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 144
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05-07-2007 12:50
and I hope we can remember that there are many valid reasons for residents preferring to chat instead of using voice :
1) RL surroundings may preclude speaking. 2) The person may have a speaking/hearing disability. 3) English as a second language speaker - sometimes easier to communicate in text rather than the spoken word. 4) A RL accent that interferes with the resident's choice of character
of course, gender switching will also be an issue - duh !! Voice will be handy at times, but will also strip away some of the mystique around the SL resident you're interacting with.
I've Skyped with quite a few of my SL female friends (inside SL and out). and with some, it's drawn me closer to them, and some, farther apart.......
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Mortus Allen
Registered User
Join date: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 528
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05-07-2007 13:01
Voice chat is a large uncontrolled environment does not seem practical. When my Guild Wars guild started using Ventrilo there were all sorts of problems among our small user group. I had to ride them about "One at a time, I can't hear what either of you are saying over the other.", there is also the occasional volume issue. Bare in mind this usually a maximum group of 6 or so people. We still acidently cut other people off as we try start talking in a silence and another does the same. At least we as a small group learned the curtisy to yeild to the other who seems to have the more relevent statement.
Using our voices in a large uncontolled environment IRL is not as big of a problem. We can read lips a little if we can't quite hear some one over others, we can't do that in SL. We can tell what direction some one is talking from and how far away, this we may or may not be able to do in SL, I have not tried the Beta Grid so I don't know if they use 3D sound rendering for Voice. But generally I do not see voice being a benifit in terms of open public communication. Depending on the implimentation small groups amoung larger ones may use voice, but generally with too many independent people in one place using it I see voice becoming extremely unmanagable and in effective.
If I may make a suggestion. Maybe make voice so that people can form into "Chat Groups" sort of like a channel in Ventrilo, where only those in that group can be heard from each other. Perhaps a Tag could hover over the groups Avs with a description of the descussion. I see these a generally being open groups that people can move between freely as if you were moving from one group converstation to another at a party. Maybe have a 1 Tenth volume Shadow of the groups converstaion audable from the outside. I think doing this would help if its intended as a feature for mass communicion.
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DaQbet Kish
cautiously reckless
Join date: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,064
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Hear to Help
05-07-2007 13:02
SuezanneC Baskersville says- “Hopefully LL has some plans to assist people with voice chat right when they enter SL for the first time. Some folks will want to start talking right away, I suspect.”
There are those ready to help and they are called Voice Mentors. Here is our charter:
Voice Mentors Seek to promote the effective and efficient use of voice in second life. We believe that voice has its place in Second Life and that if anyone wishes to speak they should be allowed without reservation or prejudice. Second Life will remain primarily a text based chat environment for sometime but we are HEAR to assist anyone in a helpful and supportive way with any apprehensions or technical issues that those new to voice may have. Voice is fun…exciting…and HEAR. So talk to us!
DK
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