The cost for a machinima?

Ariella,

I am in complete understanding of everything you said. Here is the dilemma--do you want to only accept jobs from companies that have a budget worthy of your skill set, training, hardware, and software? Or do you want to do a little 'pro bono' work for the community to not only help those less fortunate, but also use as a wonderful word-of-mouth tool.

If you are charging exorbitant real-world rates, so that you can stay afloat in real life, and pay your bills...then fine, that's your prerogative. But be assured, what comes around goes around...and there are a lot more average working-class citizens out there spreading news than multi-conglomerate corporations.

Pro bono publico is a highly advantageous strategy to incorporate into a healthy consumer/service-based company. Let me be clear, I'm not saying you should do work for free....I am considering 'pro bono' to mean, inexpensive...lower rates...peanuts...whatever you feel you can live with.

I work full-time in real life, and work in film on the weekends--I can put in around 15-20 hours a week into Second Life if I need to. I am by no means using Second Life to support my real life. I am using Second Life as a creation tool...a community tool...I help out the average citizen (sometimes with completely free services)--and I honestly believe, because of this very reason, I am inundated with clientele. My work speaks for itself, and my reputation stems from my willingness to be open minded, and selflessness.

But hey...I'm just speaking for myself.

I guess that makes sense.
But doing work for established companies usually gets me work in other established companies. *shrugs* I think it can go either way.
I guess I can help those less fortunate, but so far the work coming in is able to meet my expectations as far as pay.
Plus isn't it true that if you work for peanuts, then the other work you get will expect you to work for peanuts as well?
Shouldn't you try to set a good price standard that is fair to both you and the company?
You're saying "helping out" those less fortunate. Hell, I could put myself in the "less fortunate" category myself. Hehe

But on a serious note, can I check out some of your work?

As long as you're an established 'professional' company, and your product and client list showcases these facts--you can rightfully charge what you're worth.

**Doesn't feeling insecure about your pro bono work defeat its very purpose Ariella?

Here's how it has been working for me lately--because of my high standards and willingness to help the less fortunate, I've gained notoriety via articles, interviews, and word of mouth--and because of this Robin Hood mentality I've become so busy with large, lucrative projects, that I simply MUST decline pro bono work that I normally would accept.

Of course, I never turn down a kind, passionate, friendly citizen when they need help with something small and trivial. If I can council them, or build something in minutes...I always help out.

I suppose it's all about how good you feel about yourself when you look in the mirror in the morning. If you're fine with turning the less fortunate away simply because they can't afford your 'trade', then that's your life...I'm not judging anyone for this. If you're happy...and you're successful, then good for you. That's life.

You can reach your goal however you see fit. It's a free 'world.' Whether you want to get there by spreading your name through pro bono work...or get make a bee-line to the higher end clients. Either way is fine...all I'm saying is that Second Life is OUR world...OUR creation...let us create it together.

Greed is one of the most disgusting things about human nature, and it poisons our planet...let us not bring this virus to Second Life as well. I know that's dramatic, and it's extreme, but it's the truth.

Hey watch it.. you're throwing around the "greed" word a little too lax, I think.

Calling the others here greedy doesn't do much to credit your character, dude.

I'm still waiting to see your work.. Your work will speak for yourself.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Mr Riverside, Rhode Island.

Hello all,

I'm not actually "in the game" as it were, but on the verge of doing so. I have produced a number of clips out of personal interest and a sense of community, the kinds of things Michael Bigwig is talking about, but, like him and unlike many of you others, I have a full time job and am doing this as a hobby (but with an eye to finding a way to eventually leave the mainstream job for something else).

I actually believe that the production of clips that serve the community may be only part of the story. Up until now, my clips have been my own, from A to Z. Taking on contract work means working on someone else's dream or goals. Admittedly, one finds ways to leave one's imprint on the work, but it is less self-directed. For me to work for less money than the "standard amount" is possible if I retain more control over content and orientation - in a sense, I invest part of my own resources to make the video, more or less consciously, in exchange for more control. This allows me to work with clients who are not able to afford as much as a full professional might charge, if I believe that their "message" serves my own needs. If I had to live off these contracts, perhaps my choices would be different - I might have to give up more control to get the contracts. I certainly respect those who have been in the business a long time - I have years of work to do before I have a chance of reaching their level of quality. And quite possibly, these people are "good enough" that they can pick and choose what contracts they do, and still keep control. Am I being naive?

I certainly don't pretend to be anything else than I am, with prosective clients - a relative new comer with a good eye for editing and story, but still on a steep learning curve with regard to technique and mastery of the medium. And my prices must reflect that reality.

Magellan Egoyan

We work on sliding scales of rates. Starting at the lowest within the micro economy of SL upto the Corporate clients. What we do for the whole range is the same standard, we DON'T give lower quaility work or service to the lower rates, it's one standard or nothing.

There is no point creating a portfolio of your creativeness, with colour coding to reflect what the client paid for the work, that simply says that you do not have a standard of craftmenship, just a layered set of standards.

There are times when we take on a project and do not charge for it... that is manily a business decision, should we wish to either add that work to our portfolio, or promote our companies activities into that particular market. On occasion we might decide to do one of our standard movie sets for a particular client free, due to their circumstances.

However one thing is for sure, all our contracts include the full turnkey solution. We create the storyboards, employ the actors/models (if required), build sets (if required), take the footage in game, carryout full postproduction, host and stream from our 4 servers, and include a client page on our website driven from a 5th server. The provision and installation of a Silver Stream Network screen/player(s) with full support.

If you look at the base costs above, add to that time doing the work ingame and out of game, HD space (we support 2tb's SATA II raid, plus another 500gb's over our internal network of 4 PC's), the cost of software, electricity etc... Unless you consider all that a HOBBY, you have to at least cover those costs.

Using the term like greed, doesn't even come into the equation, unless you charge high rates and produce poor quality. Even at the top rate chargers like ESC, their base costs are much higher and therefore reflect in their charges. That is not to say, they do better work than even a hobbist, but it does create a multi-tiered market place, and that is just Good Business. If ESC can still earn revenue from the micro economy of SL, then it is not because they are being greedy, nor are they able to sustain their costs from any SL business alone, they treat the platform as a 'creative environment' for making machinima.
We consider ourselves as a company to float within the markets of both SL and RL, dealing with the micro economy, but still having the ability to raise up to reach the corporate levels along with ESC, and still able to reach well into SL's economy and community.

Free and Quality will always be sought by a large section of any market place, that is not to say that everyone MUST exist at one level. We exist within the realms of Free up to 2,000USD an hour. If your only goal is self expression, then it maybe considered strictly a Hobby. To work to a client strict breif, is considered strictly business and should attract the sort of associated costs based on technical abilities and limitations.

Evenyone is going to have their own opinion, based mainly on what they consider 'Value for money'.. All the above is based on MY opinion alone.

Thanks AWM for a very complete and informative response. It gives me a much better sense of how this operates as a business. And helps me situate my own production efforts within such a situation. I certainly did not mean to imply that I have different standards for each client - I expect to deliver my best every time. If not, I don't think one should even be here, and certainly one would not attract new clients.

And you need not defend your rates to me, I'm convinced. I work with a video production outfit for other work and their rates are more like 1000$/minute. Making machinima may be less costly than that, but there are good reasons why the rates are higher than a certain threshold.

There is a place in the market, however, I believe, for productions that are distributed on sites such as youTube and hence which do not require servers to be maintained (with their attendant costs). Although the delivery format may be lower quality, that does not mean the clip itself need be of lower quality. Choices such as these will lower overall costs and develop a somewhat different market than those you are discussing (unless I'm very much mistaken).

I'm guessing that figure would be for finished footage, rather than an hourly work rate ($60,000 per hour would do me...any takers? =). Even top post houses like Mill (which AWM should be very familiar with) only charge around $US300-$1100+ per hour.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone does apply different standards to their work, just trying to elaborate a point to the OP.


Again, I was making a point to the OP


Anyone is free to utilise any services for hosting and streaming of their work. We chose from the begining to provide a controllable delivery system, that is also far more predictable and secure (especially given the recent exposure of the prolifercation of expliots maleware being distributed through open source media), combined with our own branded form of the Silver Stream Network, which apart from being a very secure environment and delivery system, it is also scaleable to include the new vHUD which apart from being a media delivery mechanism, has many more functions and services. As we are involved with the corporate market, we can offer a secure delivery system, which is vitally important to their business, as we already have this system, we use it throughout all our contracts to protect any viewers of our content, from maleware, hijacking of the stream etc, which includes our secure hosting facilities. Again we apply that same standards to all of our clients. Although for the most part, given what we charge for 'ingame' contracts, they maynot be aware exactly who is paying for those facilities