The cost for a machinima?

Hi there,

I know we ask a lot of money for movies in RL.
But what about SL? I keep reading 30 to 50 dollars per hour!

Is that not a bit too much?

Thanks,

Amin Theas

That's about the right range. Look at this from the perspective of someone who who does machinima work for you.

Machinima is something that anyone can really do. However, its not something that everyone can do well. Nearly everyone can run, but we can't all run like Olympic athletes. Anyone can buy a video camera, but we can't all make movies like Children of Men.

So what you're paying for is someone to do work that can do it better than you. You can take 6 months to really learn the ins and outs of filmmaking in SL, or you can spend the money to have a talented professional do it for you within your time frame.

There is a lot that goes into making a good machinima production. Not only do you have to have to basic knowledge of what software to use, but you also need an eye for editing. Lots of people have made machinima. Lots of it isn't any good, either.

The biggest thing that you need to look out for is who you're hiring to do the work. Make sure they have a good portfolio and have been around for a while. Look around for other clients who have paid to have machinima made for them. If you like the results they received, then inquire as to who they hired.

Also keep in mind that the tools of our trade are expensive (between 10-20 grand for hardware and software), that most of us have years (if not a decade or more) of rl experience and that comparatively speaking getting any professional quality video work done for less than $US100/hour can be considered a massive bargain. So, no it's too much by a long shot.

Most small-shop, independent, post production houses (and I mean small..) have rate cards that average around $35/hr. in my neck of the woods. Consider that you're not only helping them cover their equipment overhead...but also the cost of their mastery of the technique's and programs they use to polish your final project.
Most professional NLE programs have learning curves that can be almost vertical, and then it comes time to export the final project and size/encode it properly for the playback venue of your choice.
As has been posted before, anyone can do machinima...but not everyone can DO machinima. And, I'll echo another caveat...check references, and make sure the person you're hiring can provide you samples of their previous work.

A good professional is expensive,
but an amateur can cost you a fortune.

It depends on your objective, of course. I don't do videos for money in SL, but I have some friends that do, So I made up a list of the services that might be required to make, for example, a documentary:
Story concept,
Scenario,
Storyboard,
Shooting script,
Voice Script,
Audio capture,
Video capture,
Video edit,
Audio edit and mix,
Finished video, posting and/or delivery.

And cost/hour tells you nothing without a time estimate for the job. If a beginner charges $10/hour and takes 10 time as long, is that really a good price? Or you can do it yourself. Costs nothing. Unless your time is worth something.

Try paying the person who cuts your hair, or fixes your car less than 50$ an hour, and you will perhaps appreciate what you are paying for..

Add the cost of the following:
1) A powerful system (Dual core 5.5ghz, 2gb 533 fast ram, 2tb SATA II HD array, 8mb connection, nVida 7900GT GC with DDR2 ram, 800watt PSU, 21" High resolution LCD monitor with 6ms scan rate).
2) Sony Vegas Movie editing software.
3) 3 conversion programmes that stack codex.
4) Special effects software.
5) 4 servers totalling 3.5tb HD space and 7.9tb bandwidth.

Oh and about 20+ years of graphics, VR graphic metrics and animation experience.

Do you need a haircut?

Pretty much what everybody said here.

Here's another metaphor: everyone can write.

Writing well is another matter; not everyone is a Jodi Picoult, Ann Brashares, J.K. Rowling or Stephen King. Truthfully, not everyone can put together a well written sentence together either, even though they can make themselves understood somehow. At best it's the brilliance and the artistry you are hiring, at the very least it's the technical competence, expertise and experience.

Cinema is an art and a business, yes. But it is also a language as well.

If you hire somebody really good then you are getting an artist, technician and communicator all in one package.

Just my little $ 0.02

While the software and hardware expenses can get pretty steep, what you are really should be paying for is talent, skill and experience. Anyone can buy the tools, knowing how to use them is a completly different matter. And to further press other responses, check previous work prior to any agreement.

well since there have been a number of the people that make these that have responded i thought i would drop my 2 cents in on this as well at the risk of being flamed..

i would like to start off by saying that all the comparisions here are for "professional" looking work. in looking thru the linked stuff here and searching you tube i have yet to find anything that is cmoprable to a "professional" movie. i am sure it is out there i just havent come across it. NOR am i a expert on the matter. most of what i have seen looks like it is well done for a decent PC with fraps and win movie maker. Dont get me wrong i am sure that the people posting here are professinals i just havent seen any of there work. i would love to see something that would make me go "HELL yes i would of paid $35 and hour for that to be made"

at $35-$50 a hour ( and i presume that is un USD not Lindens given some of the precious posts) how long would a project take and what would some one be looking at total cost to them. lets say that a person has a concept. they could do a rough story bord and give you the majority of the information you would need to get the project going. do they then ummm back seat direct to get exactly what they want. what all is porvided for you investment.

the numbers seem kind of vauge and yes deffinatly ask questions about what your getting for your money.

i appoligize if i have ruffled feather because i have not ment to. i have been thinking of a project but have been scared off by this high budgetary thing i have seen repeatedly. any answeres would be great.

I have to say you haven't looked hard enough, mate. Or maybe you're expecting us to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. Remember SL's graphics are pretty poor and you're seeing them compressed for web delivery.

Others have already explained what you're getting for your money. In most cases it's a decade or more of professional film-making experience. And seriously, have you seen what your local wedding videographer is delivering for $100+ per hour?

Look, it's simple. If you don't think spending $35-$50 per hour is worth it, find someone that will do it for less. Or better, spend $50 and buy fraps and do it yourself. But, I can guarantee that I (and most of the others that have posted on this thread) can do it better. Much, much better.

I've got my eye on Skribe right now. He's been making some very good videos in the last couple months.

ok then how about a link or 2 to some of this high quality stuff. i belive you i just wopuld like to see some for myself.

You won't find high quality anything delivered via the web. By its very nature high quality requires lots of information thereby making it untenable for web delivery. You certainly won't find anything filmed in SL high quality because the graphics engine is outdated and now looks clunky. But that said, this is still possible: http://skribeproductions.blip.tv/file/250640/

well i have to say that that is by far better then most of the stuff i have com across so far.

Amin ... I'm working on a machinima right now - my first attempt - and just getting the costumes and locations set up is driving me crazy! Extras??? and the rat avatars are 900L EACH!

It's a tedious, expensive process.

also some things I've done, http://mannea.blip.tv

here is an machimina that we produced for our product.. (its combination of a commerical and a short machimina at the end)

enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcrgOj43wQI

Flix Saiman

Sim in a box

If you are looking for some 'professional' movies.. try this single page from our website http://www.wba-advertising.com/firstmeta/firstmeta.html It's a RL company, paid RL bucks for the movies... I won't divulge how much they paid for it, but as long as both parties feel they have value for money, who cares.

check out www.silverandgoldie.com for samples of high-end machinima production.

I charge roughly $25-30 an hour. The most I've charged is $500 on a 1 minute video, just to give you an idea. It really depends on what they want though. If it's easy, I'll negotiate. Anyone will negotiate, really. Us machinima filmmakers hate losing work! But.. I didn't tell you that The best solution is to arrive at a number both you and the filmmaker deem as fair.

Here is my most recent video: www.AriellaFurman.com/Everwind.mov

My email is [email]Ariella5353@yahoo.com[/email] if you have any questions. I'll be happy to assist in any way I can.

My 2 Lindens:

If a director or producer wants to charge $20-$30 dollars an hour to a small Second Life only company, I think that's highway robbery. Second Life is not only about creation, but also collaboration.

If, however, a real-world company enters SL and possesses a healthy budget...sure, go for it, charge them your real-world rates--it's acceptable and recommended.

I'm not only a trained graphic designer, but also a semi-professional actor and filmmaker. I know the ropes, and the ins and outs. Don't tell me with a straight face that you think it's acceptable to charge a common SL citizen your 'professional' rates...that's ridiculous.

When I do custom modeling and designing for a SL citizen, I work for the love of creation, collaboration and community--the 3 Cs...(hmm...I like that business model, and title-C3 Designs)...anyway. On the flip side, when I do work for a real world company (say, designing movie premiere builds), I charge my 'professional' rate.

I think you should shop around as the consumer. Many people think their 'professional' skills translate to 'let's gouge the community, because we're the best.' It's simply not cool--would you rather be the Sheriff of Nottingham, or Robin Hood? Who do the citizens relate with more? Who are they more likely to seek for advice and council? Now THAT is the way to succeed in Second Life. Word of mouth, reasonable pricing, and a quality product to back it up.

Cheers!

How is it "highway robbery"? Do you work for free? I'm sorry, but if its going to take me X amount of hours to do a job, then thats X amount of hours that I don't have to do something else that is valuable to me, either personally or financially.

Perhaps its a bit egotistical, but I consider myself one of the better machinimatographers in SL. I don't produce an excess of productions, however the ones that I make are of extremely high quality. The customer is getting the value out of the $35/hour I charge.

Out of the last few customers I've done work for, 2 were music videos, 1 was a commercial for an SL product, and 1 was for a Dutch movie release. The artists appreciated the value of the music video. The commercial helped to promote a product that has made many, many thousands of sales. The Dutch movie aired it on live tv, and since it was in their promotional budget they got their value too.

So speak for yourself.

Hey! i have a rat avatar Where does one go to state they'd like to offer their help as an 'extra'? Not to brag but i have an enormous inventory that is going to waste...every sort of avatar imaginable...quality stuff too... and would be delighted to stand in the background.

I did speak for myself. Thank you.

Michael,

I agree with you to an extent. This is why I don't work with developing or starting out companies run by the individual entrepreneur or student. No offense to them at all! I would take some time to show them the ropes as far as what program to use and help them along the way by answering questions. But if it's not worth my time because their budget is too low, I won't create it for them. If they have nothing to pay, then it's better they did it themselves. If they have nothing to pay, they shouldn't be asking professionals to do it then. They'd be able to devote more time to it and wouldn't have to go crazy looking for a good price.

$20 an hour is not a lot. As a freelance video production maker, I don't get daily jobs or benefit rates or guarantees that I will make enough to pay the bills. Jobs are on and off and are sporadic, and I can probably speak for most video production people, you never get the amount of jobs that you ideally would like.

If I was really going to make $100 or less on something I completely dish out and spend hours on, then I'll go back to my retail job at Sears

Not to mention, my equipment is not cheap! FCP is 1K when I got it, my laptop is 2K, my coloring program is $300, my camcorder is 3K, all my external harddrives with space are about 1K all together. I didn't buy all this equipment and take out loans to be making less than I would make working at a restaurant.
Not to mention all the tutorial books I brought/put time into.

This is a skilled job, a profession, not a part time make some extra dough job. Although, I'm talking real world too (I don't just do machinima).

But really, I think most of the people here that charge $35 an hour are skilled. They prefer to work with developed companies, they are not doing this to necessarily attract uprising companies. I support students and uprising companies by helping them get started on how to do it themselves. *shrugs*

Personally, I've never had trouble asking for $20 an hour. Most found that fair.

Although I think the moral of the story here is what you charge others is your business