The Bush Extortion

As many ppl, I've also come across these ugly extortionist lands and signs. One right in my otherwise nice neighbourhood, Orwood, is a 16 sqm parcel that's set to sell for L$ 5000.

Lindens, please stop the extortion and griefing!

Any other ideas besides filing Abuse Reports? This is NOT a free speech issue!

PS: I am currently paying 25 USD/month for land tiers, but I'm now thinking about whether to reduce this to 0 USD as the result of the extortion and griefing.

Noone's figured out how to hurt this person. When someone figures out how to hurt him, the residency will have a weapon. Until then, he'll continue to terrorize the world with the Lindens' blessing.

Oh, yes, and I also will NOT advertise SL to any friends, and will hold off trying to get anyone I know signing up to SL. And I'm advising all people who can't take this griefing to do the same!

If putting up virtual signs in a virtual world is now terrorism, what should we call it when real people are murdered with real bombs in the real world? A little overreaction here or what?

Look, maybe some people (Americans or not) have forgotten the original meaning of the word 'terrorize'. But if a bully in school is doing mean things to smaller guys, beating them up, taking their lunch, etc, I also call that terrorizing. Even though there's no bomb.

If we do figure out a way to "hurt" this person, judging by their stance on the issue thus far, it'll probably be us on the receiving end of LL's punishment.

Yea we cant do anything to the guy or it's our butts that get banned... I would love it if i could just burn the signs lol.

I ponder: If a 16m plot ugly billboard was right up against my land, I could make a prim that covers the sign with a nice beach picture, linked to a root prim that sits on my land. I might then script it to do a sensor sweep for the billboard owner's name (and anyone with the last name "Linden" and hide the cover if found.


...Not saying that I would do this, just that it's possible..............

And anyone with one of these signs by their house would probably gladly pay you for one rather than give a cent to the sign maker.

As far as I know, most towns have ordinances about billboards and advertising and even political signage. There's no reason the Lindens can't do that here.

I can tell you that I've only been in SL for about 3 months now. And that I have been reading these forums for on and off about that same amount of time. And the one thing I see talked about more then any... ANY other issue is these blasted BIG BLUE Anti-Bush signs.
Granted, many people here have had some great ideas. Not all of them may be nice. Not all of them may seem fair. And certainly not all of them will appeal to all of us as fellow citizens of SL.
So now I too will give my 2 cents. And why not? Opinions are like rear ends so I've been told. Everybody has one. And I have to say I agree that we are all entitled to ours. So here it goes.
Why do we have a BAN option on our plots of land? When if we ban anyone that same person can just come in if we choose to change our locations of living, and BUY our property? We obviously didnt want them to visit our property when we were living there? What makes anyone think we want them to OWN it because we have choosen to move?
Most of you may know that banning someone from you property doesn't stop them from buying it. Which in my opinon is DEAD WRONG! But ok why then even ban them? Makes no since to me to just keep them out if there are other ways for them to grief me besides just being on my property in the first place.
If the real world if someone has a bad reference or bad credit in the case of buying land and other major purchases. That person most likely WILL NOT be able to buy it? So why if we BAN someone that is known or even just to us. Is a bad sort. Why if we choose to move should said person(s) be allowed to buy my property?
I for one dont think they should? If you are going to give us the right to BAN someone please by all means make it include the right to BAN them from the furture purchase of my property as well.
Otherwise there is no real way to stop BAD things from becoming even WORSE!?
Am I the only one who feels this way? If so I'm sorry to bother you all with this rant. But, please if you feel this same way. Do let me know. And if you disagree. Please feel free to give your opinions also.
I really try not to make it a point to be so negative. So if you ever see me in SL. And I'm often there. Please do feel free to just IM me and say HEY! Or even HELLO! I'd love to chat and show you I'm really a friendly sort.

Oh and just so you all know I'm not trying to be mean. Yes, I do realize that by allowing the bans we place on our lots to cover purchases. It could be a bad thing for at least 1 reason. Those that have an interest in HIGH end land dealings may lose the chance to buy some properties too. And, well to that I have to say sometimes you have to take the bad with the good. Not all of us well ever agree on everything.

And, in closing. Yes, I know you are so happy that I'm should have be done long ago. If certain people were banned from a plot of land for sale and they were in the business of buying and selling land. Well in major quantities. I'm sure they could always IM the owner and ask why? And, I'd hope that the owner may have a good reason to give them. I mean its one thing to be KNOWN by everyone for garbage you put on land you own EVERYWHERE? And another to be known for other things that could be to most not that annoying or what looks like you are trying to rip someone off?!

Ok thats enough you all get the idea. Hope you all have a great second life. I'm trying to and so far its been much more good then bad. I just wish this issue would get solved SOON!

I think what would work is to change policy to allow lindens to delete on request builds which are on land that's for sale. It'll mean that nobody can use ugly builds to encourage people to buy the land that they otherwise had no interest in. It'll also stop anybody from stealing free advertising from the land sales section.

This is a GREAT idea as far as being able to limit/moderate builds on for-sale land only. It wouldn't prevent the scheme where you drive down neighboring property values and then buy it up, but that scheme is more work to implement on a large scale.

The land sales list issue is something I've wondered about: even in the article where Lazarus claimed to be purely politically motivated, he openly admitted that he was trying to spam the land sales queue with his message. Why isn't THAT enough reason for the Lindens to take action?

If this guy can put up those signs, I wonder if I can advertise a real life business in the game. Seems like a very cheap way for a company to advertise. Coke? Pepsi? Viagra anyone? ROFL

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php

>>>transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising<<<

5. USER CONDUCT

In addition to abiding at all times by the Community Standards, you agree that you shall not:

(vii) upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;

http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

>>>repeated transmission of undesired advertising content<<<

6. Disturbing the Peace
Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace.

Finally that makes sense if the land is for sale and instead of a for sale sign they put up anything that isn't a for sale sign then it should be removed. Especialy If the neighbors don't like it.
Even if it is a for sale sign if the neighbors don't like it remove it. If your looking for land turn on the property lines yellow borders are for sale. turn on the land sales icon. Who shops for land and looks for land with signs on it. That would take forever.

The simplest answer to all this... Ban ALL real life related Advertising of anykind exception being the Second Life ones. This will stop political and other types of unrelated to SL problems. You can have total free speach in SL . After all? Bush doesnt live here does he? So why should campaigns for or against him? About Land extortion... that is supply and demand. It is a real world problem as well as second Life's.

Since the Impeach Bush signs and outrageous pricing of the lots they sit on have clearly been found annoying at minimum by a very large and broadly diverse set of members, it seems to me that this fits the definition of being "broadly offensive." It would not be broadly offensive if some handful of people in a single sim, e.g., was irritated. But when hundreds of members across the spectrum of the mainland is irritated, what's it take to become broadly offensive?

Therefor, I cannot for the life of me understand why the creator is not held in contempt of the TOS and banned. This little insult and gaming of the members goes well past freedom of speech and it's time LL came to the conclusion that, as the saying goes, "enough is enough."

Ace

Hi. Dix Donovan here. Some of you may know me, or 'of' me, and some may not. I read these forums alot but rarely speak.

As to the BUSH extortion signs...It doesn't matter if you are a Rep. or Dem.; or if you are Pro Bush or against; or if you are For or Against the War, as all that is "beside the point" here. In my time in SL {which in March will be 2 years} I have done my best to "help beautify" SL as much as possible! My trade here is that of a BUILDER. I put my "heart and soul" into everything I create. But these SIGNS in my opinion "cheapen" the land they are on, and "all the nearby lands"! NOT just because of the content written on them; but because it's virtually the same as "someone standing in your face shouting at you" like a boot camp drill sergeant!

I sold my land and moved out of one sim {Uzume} basically because the whole sim became "overrun" with SIGNS! It was like trying to Live and work beneath the shadow of Billboards! I see one basic problem with SL is that there are very "few" LAWS here! The same "rights" we as citizens have that should HELP us, also work "against us", because it gives the GRIEFERS the "same right to abuse us"! {If "Real Life" were as SL is now...We would all be hiding in our homes with fully loaded guns drawn, triggers cocked, and shaking in our shoes! Yes, it's getting to that point in SL!} I've said this since my first month in SL and I still say it...We need an SL GOVERNMENT! We need LAWS and LAW ENFORCEMENT {pardon the shouts!} Otherwise...as some others have stated here previously...We are reduced to the rank of "self-proclaimed vigilantes", and in the end it will be our butts who kicked out, and the GRIEFERS will "live on"!

As to the "ban" thing...I see the point made. There have been times in the distant past that I too have had to ban a few people from my lands. But like the person here said, if I decided to sell, that banned person might be able to buy the land. {But for me...once I'm gone from a property, I rarely look back!}

I'm going to "add" another problem here, that has affected ME all too often lately. And I would be very interested to KNOW if anyone else has had a similar problem? And before I get too deep into this...I want everyone to know that "I KNOW" there is supposed to be a way around "preventing" to a degree what happened to me, but because of the "magnitude" of my particular case...I found myself UNABLE to comply. Let me explain.

The subject here is "building". But on a "majestic" scale. [[Because this issue is new and nothing has been done to satisfy me on this issue in any shape, form or fashion I will NOT mention any names!]]

But I recently completed a "massive" build {single residence} that covered virtually half a sim. It was so huge that you could {or at least I couldn't} stand at one end of the home and 'see' to the other end! It was two story with patio and pool/spa in the rear. I worked diligently on this for almost two months.

Now going back a bit...Two weeks into this, I had the front and rear done, and was filling in the middle, when I logged in and found the "whole place GONE"! The landowners came to me and appologized...they said they were hit with some sort of GRIEFER BOMB that "spread prims all over and regenerated itself", so that it took the PRIM COUNT of the land "over the limit" fast, which caused my place {which was linked} to break apart and go "who knows where"?

Well, in the time that folowed that event, I perchance met someone who showed me a way to use a tool here that would allow me to "save a copy" of the whole place and take to inventory, so if that event happened again, I would have a back up! {That amazed me}
And through the pleading and insistance of the landowners I "agreed" to give it another try, but this time he wanted it "Bigger"! So I started again. And this time I worked diligently night and day! And logged in and out at that property and came back on my off time just to make sure all was safe! Well, this past "Sunday" I was all but done. One of the landowners came to the house and told me how "wonderful the whole place was and that I had done a marvelous job"! {And this was a home from a RL photo that other builders refused to tackle as one or two came to me and told me "not to waste my time as it was impossible to build this! Yet I did it!} And "yes" I have photos!

The very next morning...I logged in, and as SL was loading, I went to get a glass of juice. When I came back my screen was rezzed, and I went to the house. To my utter SHOCK and dismay, the "whole" home was GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! And there in place of it was a "tiny" {by comparison} "prefab" with one of the landowner's name on it. Needless to say...I was overwhelmed with all sorts of "real emotons"! During that time I worked on the house, I had spent so much of my RL time here, that I got little sleep and lowered my resistance and came down with a bad case of the FLU, and ended up in the hospital over Christmas. {{Now basically that was "my own fault"...so can't blame that directly on anyone in SL!}} But the main reason for that was because since SL has "no governing laws to prevent anyone from GRIEFING the land, we have to do our own "security"! Be all that as it may...

Since that happened...I have sent IM's to the landowners but "no one" has responded to any of them!!! No one has "paid" me since I started this!!! I have NO IDEA what is going to happen next? I feel I have "few options" on my behalf!? I CANNOT file any abuse reports yet, as I do NOT know whom to blame yet? {{But if this was RL and you had build a home from the ground up, and came back the next day and found it BURNED TO THE GROUND! Imagine how "you would feel", and then you'll know how I FEEL right now!}} I have NOT mentioned this to the Linden's yet, as I know they would tell me I need to "contact the landowners" first! And before or until they respond...my hands are tied!

But see....this is basically the "third" time this has happened to me! And as to the "making a copy" thing...I tried, but in VAIN, as the place was "too huge" to be able to "select it all"! So there IS NO COPY! Accept for my PHOTOS...there is "nothing" to show that the house ever existed!

Now as "SL RESIDENTS"...I need "answers" from people as to "what can be done to prevent things like this from happening/reoccuring"? If it wa GRIEFERS again...then something needs to be done to PREVENT this! What "good" is a world like SL if we have NO WAY to keep our creations "safe"??????? And if some people are "so heartless" as to have NO CONCERN for others RIGHTS and WELL BEING, then in my opinion..."THOSE" people have NO RIGHT TO BE CITIZENS OF SL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say what you will "for or against" what I have written here....You "CAN'T" hurt me any more than I've been HURT ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Almost a year ago I fought a grouping of people "tooth and nail" who were trying to run me off my land. I know as previous owners of that land came and told me it happened to them, and they got sick of it and left! But I stood it out and WON!

But now...I'm beginning to "rethink" my existence here in SL and wonder if "all of this hell is actually worth" what I'm paying to be here??????????????

I'm done...Please respond!

THANK YOU!


Dix Donovan

Dix,

There isn't much that can be done. I guess we should watch for your house to show up on someone else's sim.....

Dix, that is some story - sorry to hear it. It's taken me less time than you to come to the conclusion that building on SL land is not worth the emotional or time investment. Not when one is viewed the same way as criminals and griefers under SL "law". I've dumped my land (reluctantly - it was my "home" after all) and it's tier and redirected my creative energies from building on real estate to other kinds of builds - vehicles, boats, clothing, etc. It's much more difficult for griefers to spoil the satisfaction I get out of that. Maybe you might want to think in that direction instead of bailing out of SL entirely?

Exactly correct--for sale signs are ugly.

However, the signs that people are objecting to are not usually on land that is for sale. The might very well be considered spam, in a way, though.

I'm not sure why you'd even need to hide this from the Lindens or the land owner... Putting up a wall with something on it if even to obviously block a neighbors content doesn't appear to be against the TOS or CS as far as I can see. In fact I know some sims that have done just that and there hasn't been a Linden reaction to this to my knowledge.

I too find the anti-Bush signs to be rather offensive. I consider them to be an eyesore and being from Texas and having voted for GWB, I find them offensive. However I recognize the owner of the signs has as much right to proclaim a political statement as I have. It may be bad taste but, we have had bad taste since the first caveman wore a zebra top with a leopard skin bottom.

The extortion issue is a different matter. The going rate for Mature property is about $10L per square meter. I have read that this individual puts this sign up in front of your yard on a 16. sq meter lot and asks for $5000L That averages out to over $500L per meter. Considering the going rate for land and the fact that the only way anyone, in his/her right mind, would pay $500L per meter for land. is if some ugly insulting sign was staring at you from your bedroom window; any fair minded person would have to consider that extortion. Thus, Linden Labs should have stepped in long ago.

Yet, Gov. Linden allows the extortion to continue. He doesn’t even offer an explanation, which increases frustration and fosters bad feelings toward Linden Labs. Why? I can think up a couple of reasons:

1. The individual really is a Linden alt. It is a conspiracy by the Lindens to sell more land and raise tiers. Let’s face it, how many people had to pay higher tiers because of the 16 sq. meter addition?
2. Or, and this is the more likely reason. The individual does provide Gov. Linden (Philip) with a substantial amount of money.

If that is true, and I think it is, we the citizens of SL have only one option. We have to make it more painful for Gov. Linden to leave the signs up than for him to remove them. Let’s face it, Linden Labs is there to make money. They have a unique product and Gov. Linden must do what is necessary to bring in as large an amount of monthly revenue as possible.

How long do you think it would take to have the signs removed if, enough SL citizens revolted with their credit cards? If enough people signed up and stated that they wouldn’t buy any more land (and increase tiers) until the signs were removed. It would hurt revenues greater than the lost of this individual’s revenue. Only then, I think would you see action taken.

The question is, are we willing to suffer in another way for a while to relieve suffering from the obnoxious, extorting signs? I don’t believe we are, nor does this individual or Linden Labs.

Jen

See the General forums, there are tons of threads there.

Sadly, no action or even communication from Lindens! Even though several solutions have been proposed (from texture blacklisting to taking down the signs by the guy).

If I had gotten truly cynical, I would say it is because they approve of the message.

coco

P.S. There has been communication about it, at least twice, in the Hotline (now Answers) forum. They have said they won't do anything about it, as it is on his land.