NWN feedback - race, sexuality, who cares?

Hamlet, I hope you wont take this as a personal attack against you or Bel or your column since I greatly enjoy reading it and feel that it is a valuable asset that gives the world some badly needed "flavor".
I dont know what life is like in america, especially with regards to how different races and sexual preferences are seen, but I feel that the very act of bringing this up in a 3 part column is at best silly, and at worst discriminatory.
I dont see any article up there mentioning how someone was assumed to be gay and then turned out to be straight, or any article about a white person that everyone thought was black.
I know why this is, and why assumptions like these exist, but bringing up this stuff and calling it a "problem" or an "issue" is something that I feel is terribly wrong, and until we no longer feel the need to talk about these things as if they werent perfectly normal, there will always be people who feel that they arent perfectly normal.
Who cares if Bel is black or someone else was gay? Do you care? Does anyone else here give a damn about your friends' skin color or sexual preference?
I think the proper way to deal with people who seem different from you in a way, whether that difference lies in their skin color, their body fat ratio, religion or sexual orientation, is to ignore any such differences, keeping in mind the fact that even a chimpanzee only has around 0.5% of his genes different from ours.
We homo sapiens are actually among the most homogeneous species on this planet, something horribly abnormal since in nature everything tends to maximize entropy, in this case, biodiversity.
In fact, IIRC the genes that determine skin color are only 3, so theres probably a lot more variation in the size and shape of our feet.
Having said all of this I suggest next week you interview me and make a 3 part story about how I'm actually not a cool anglo-saxon type with bulging muscles, but really a fat mediterranean geek, detailing all of the "issues" and "problems" fat people have in modern society, because we all know that being fat (or black or gay) isnt perfectly normal, so it should be great, newsworthy material for all of us to read.
Thank you for putting up with my rant.

Well said, Eggy.

*clap*
*clap*
*clap*

Thanks for that! I was annoyed by that article too, since its a game world and you can be anything you want!!
I have two AV forms I switch between - one has blue hair and pinkish purple skin and the other is green, very large, with yellow hair.
What race do they belong too?

Yeah, it's just a game

I only made a girl pirate because 'Pirate Cotton' sounded like a cutesy pirate.

I am now back to a male av but when I get bored of staring at a guy form I'll go back to the girl

Pirate

I'm with eggy on this one. The article kind of bugged me. There has GOT to be something more newsworthy happening in world. Plus I thought it was against the TOS to talk about someone's RL.

What Bel said about how watching how real life scenarios play out in SL is good point though. SL gives you a chance to get points of view you would never hear from day to day RL conversations. A wide range of opinions from many different countries is always interesting. But the topic of race isn't that interesting anymore. Maybe 20 years ago this would have been a hot topic. But that's just where I'm from. From what I gather, race is still and will continue to be a big issue in the States for some time. That's my outsider opinion from this corner of the world.

Bel could be a pink lesbian rabbit it's her mind that get's me all hot and bothered.

Great post. We all need to be openen minded in SL. maybe someday it will happen in 1st life also.

Whew! So i just finished reading the articles. I was nervous when Hamlet told me what he planned. And I had no idea the article would be so long. (3 parts ...yikes) I said what I said to Hamlet, but many of the remarks were not meant as a general address to the public, but were just me and Hamlet rapping about stuff. Note to self: never forget you're talking to a journalist when you talk to Hamlet

I can understand perfectly that you don't care, eggy. Or that no one would want to know. It was certainly what I was nervous about. Not that you would give a crap what race I am, but that discussing race at all is uncomfortable and potentially problematic.

In SL if no one discusses race, gender, politics, etc. (because its a game) those issues become invisible or non-issues. Which is a lot of fun...its what makes it an escape. And I enjoy that aspect.

But, then there comes a moment when not discussing it drifts strangely into hiding it. There was a thread on race in the general forums. I couldn't quite bring myself to join in. My policy of not talking about it had become so ingrained that when there was a legitimate opportunity to mention it, i didn't.

When Hamlet asked me about the avatars i felt kinda defensive. Am I ashamed of who I am, cause my avatar is not recognizably black? Ewww...thats a weird thought to have. Am I just enjoying a race-free environment or am I hiding my race?

Hehe..if you know me, you'll know that I almost always have a definite opinion on everything! But I go back and forth on this one. I understand wanting to preserve the sanctity of our shared fantasy world and not bring icky issues of race, gender, political issues into it. But on the other hand, I'm a product of those issues and my opinions, perspective, creativity will all be grounded in my RL identity.

Anyway, if you feel like I've made an "issue" out of this, I can understand that. It's not my intention. Rather, I was just hoping to explore a little further the way identity is revealed and hidden in a virtual environment.

I am in the "let's look at the interesting way real life issues play out in a virtual environment" camp on this.

We have a unique opportunity to meet and become friends with people online that social stigmas create invisible barriers to IRL. It's a great lesson to people who get caught up in these barriers. To realize that you have friends online who are of a different ethnicity or religion or fall into some other category, looksist or whatever is a lesson that as much as we are different, we are also the same.

Some people have not yet had the opportunity to learn that.

To not discuss this I think is to leave everyone in their comfort zone of assuming everyone they are interacting with is just like them or otherwise meets their "ideal".

I was raised taught that we're all the same and there isnt a difference (based on color). I think maybe my parents didnt take that lesson far enough. I think yes we are the same AND different and that we need to embrace and celebrate both our unique differences as well as our common ground with all those around us.

The idea that any group is better or worse than another to me is just silly. We are all better off if we cooperate and utilize each others strengths & talents.

One of the most amazing things about SL to me is that given the opportunity to sculpt how we present ourselves to each other, people do NOT end up grouping themselves into any particular category of appearance.

Given the chance to present exactly the beautiful or impressive figure we want, people turn out to prefer to be unique. We're all different from one another, and it shows. Each person has their own unique personality and when they design their own body each one turns out different than what someone else comes up with.

I've always been a walking contradiction, at least according to any of the categories of gender or sexuality that usually get assigned, so it's gratifying to hear stories of others who play with their self-image as well.

Bravo, Bel, on your willingness to share your thoughts on these matters with the rest of us.

BTW Eggy, the differance in human and chimp dna is only 0.05% not 0.5%. Once again correcting my poor numerically challanged friend.

Eggy, you live in a society that is pretty homogenious, both socially and racially. The United States and Canada are much more racially and culturally diverse, and though it is sometimes painful, discussion of cultural and racial issues usually leads to better understanding. I thought it was a good article, sensitively written, and it addresses a common theme here in SL - that a lot of us have a freedom here that we do not have in real life, whether it is due to sex, race, handicap, sexual preference, gender identity or religion, it is easier for all of us to either pass or come out of our own particular closets as we choose.

Actually Eggy.....

Hamlet's second and third posts were along these lines. Followed by some disscusion in the forums.

All to often I fall into the same trap - the "I don't let myself be affected by race, so I wish everyone else would stop making such a big deal about it" trap. I like to think that I was one of the first people in SL to know Bel's RL race - and I like to think it has never affected my relationship with her. In fact, I got into this very argument with her a few weeks ago.

We were talking about a movie I enjoyed, but which she saw as flawed by using a negative stereotype for humor's sake. I didn't even know that particular stereotype existed, so I had no idea that it could be offensive, so I said something along the lines of "Its not really such a big deal" as I didn't even recognize the stereotype.

But what was explained to me is - its not a big deal to the majority. Its not something I have to worry about. I live in a very white society, but I'm young and liberal enough to think race is well on its way to being a closed issue. I mean - of course we are all equal, duh - we've known that forever... well, almost forvere, right? I mean... since like 1965 in the US with the Voting Rights Act saying that minorities can't be prevented from voting... jeez, thats ... not even 40 years.

If you wern't alive then, your parents were. That is not so long ago. And anyone who plays a typical online game for any amount of time knows that racism is alive and well.

So while you and I might be beyond that, there is still need for these things to be discussed. Race *may* be a non-issue in a world where you can make your skin any color you want. But I can promise you we are not in some null-race utopia.

And on that note, I want to thank you for starting this thread, because it seems to have been hijacked slightly, and has generated a healthy discussion on race, which is something that is never a bad thing.

BBC

P.S. I don't think I made that blonde av to look like what you described to me bel, more to suit your personality (which is a more honest use of an avatar in SL).

P.P.S. And she has a round butt because all girls should have a little junk in their triz-unk.

I thought the articles were great and I wasn't bothered by any of it. I commend Bel for sharing her thoughts.
This all just reminds that everything said or built that may have some cultural tone will affect people whether you realize it or not.
One example is mentioning of 'No Ghetto Scripts'
That's Madox but I take the blame for that quote since I used the term ghetto a lot and well, Madox stole my line. In my mind, I feel it's not very offensive since I grew up in a very culturally diverse place. By having many friends of different races I picked up terms that have just become part of my normal speech. In the same regard, my friends have taken things from my background and have incorporated them in their own way. But with Bel coming from South Central, of course that statement will personally affect her. I just hope she wasn't all too bummed out about it. Hopefully all this will allow people to be more understanding of each other.

BBC -- excellent post -- I've been there in similar dialogues, only on the other side from you in terms of who was talking to whom. (not in SL, in RL)

I'm not functioning on all cyclinders just yet, so I'll avoid the ramble and plunk myself in the latter group of thought on race and whether to ignore the issue or not.


(and now I'm going to go find more coffee...)

Hats off to all of you for discussing the race issue, and all in a positive way.

I was brought up to see past everyones 'outside', so in that respect, race isnt an issue to me.

But...

Whenever I see any examples of racism (In RL or in the media), it upsets me alot. So then it IS an issue.

So I guess for me, if not for alot of you, race is both an issue, AND a non-issue. Makes for an odd debate

Wow, these are really great posts! Thanks to everyone for expressing their opinions. It's not an easy topic to get involved in.

Ironchef, i want to clarify, the term "ghetto scripts" is not offensive to me. It's just a term that carried a little more baggage for me, than it would for most people. I thought that you guys meant it humorously. So no worries

As being the subject of a three-part Hamlet story myself, I can see how people can see things wrong, or have their own views on things. What race Bel is in real life has no bearing to me, whether she told me or not... Bel is Bel, and she was one of the first friends I made when I came into Second Life.

Much like real life, our paths have diverged and we have been busy with our own projects, Bel and I will still be friends for as long as we are in Second Life, and hopefully even outside Second Life.

There's a song lyric that goes, "People are people wherever they go", and that's how I feel about it.

Bye bye for now,
Alexis

I just want to SUPPORT Hamlet's articles, Bel's participation, and the importance of looking at how we chose to represent ourselves when the choice is ours to make.

Yeah, Hamlet and Bel, for not shying away from difficult things. Thank God this column isn't just a bunch of puff pieces on how pretty the houses are and other such marketing fluff. It's good to have some real, thought-provoking insights as well.

Bravo and brava!

I think we should care about people's race, preferences, origins, gender, age....

These are all a part of our individual history and make us what we are. Knowing helps us in learning about each other. Using these things to hurt one another is the problem.

Focusing on these issues in Hamlet's column is good. It has lead to this thread. This thread is good. It's easy not to talk about something if it does not effect you. It can be hard to talk about something if it does. Conversations like this thread better both scenarios.

One rather interestingly cool thing is that in SL we can choose to look like what ever we want to, but still, the creation of that avatar is done by the person who's history includes race, preferences, gender, age...

fen-

Ah, yes, Eggy, very well put.

As a black woman, I myself, can relate to Bel. I get called "white" for the way I talk and/or act. It's funny that in my school, if you get good grades, you're suddenly, "selling out". Oh, I study too much. Oh, I do this and that. At my old High School (Graduate of '02 by the way!), I was the editor in chief of the school paper. I also wrote articles. Everyone was like, "Your articles are sooo boring!". But that's because they didn't have anything about rap and hip-hop and "black stuff". I wrote about serious issues that needed to be discussed about my school, and for that I was "selling out".

Sad, really, the mindset of people.
If you're doing good, they think that's a signal to put you down.

I don't mind them anymore.
I know I'm cool!
And if they can't deal with it, TOUGH!

Very intersting thread and article. Personally I am black/african american and my av is black it just felt more normal to play that way. I have never encountered a slight or remark in any form whatsoever because of the way my AV looks as a matter of fact i get alot of compliments on my AVs design. I was asked by a friend if i felt funny or alone because there were not many AVs that looked like mine and I told her it doesnt really bother me one becaues im acustomed to being and looking different and two i kinda like it because i DONT look like everyone else ..I like my AV to stand out. I dont have any political agendas or any that bs..i just enjoy the game the people and the creativity. Im to much of a cutup to be offended by silly stuff anyway..ask Bri lol. Oh and heres a shout out to all my homegurls and boys black,white blue green..whateva color u are i lov ya ..peace

not pointing fingers or accusing anyone but just like we have no way of knowing if someone with a white avatar might be black in rl we have no way of knowing if someone who says on here that they're black in rl really is. just a thought.

I just wanted to thank all of you for posting.
Because of all that I have red here I have
decied to let my fem side come out and play.
I would have done it sonner but the name would
have given me away.

Don, thats really great! Makes this whole thing worthwhile for me

Thanks Artemis and Darzus for contributing to this thread.

And thank you to all the people who've spoken so positively about this thread in-world. This is a truly amazing community, and I'm so proud to be a part of it.

*hugs all*