Shoot on sight

Members of the group "Terrorists of SL". are placing buildings and items for sale on vacant land (including MINE that I am trying to sell). The items they had for sale were all by other people (freebies), even a mini-gun by Philip Linden.

This isn't the first I have seen of these miscreants, and if LL doesn't start doing better than telling me to file an incident report, which I will never get feedback on, then I am going to be my own one-woman vigilance committee and start shooting them on sight.

The primary purpose of a government is to protect its citizens. When a government fails to do that, citizens have an inalienable right to protect themselves.

And in an echo of real-life, these self-proclaimed terrorists will likely get more sympathy for actions taken against them than the people they abuse.

Why don't you turn on auto return to keep people from placing stuff on your land?

File those incident reports.

Gamehosts in other MMOG refuse to tackle complaints unless there is documentation. They need the paper trail, they need the complaint documented on their system before they can act. I expect LL to be no different in this regard.

So file!

You can do this but they'll just keep doing it again or worst. Its kind of sad that many of us are turnig to arming ourselves and such to protect our land and AVs from assult

I have. But my neighbors haven't. It is easy to rez an item so it is offset to count on one persons lot while hovering atop another.

Besides it still makes it hard to sell land when a shop selling Naziesque items is right next door.

I have filed. Then I posted here.
Then they returned with a ton of weapons and started shooting me while I was standing on my own land. I must have died 20 times.

I called for instant help and was told to file a report. I said I had, and it was still going on. A Linden came and observed. They shot him too. He was there long enough that he went 'away' for a bit. He then told me to put them down on my land's ban list.

I was pleased that I got a witness to this, but I don't see anything on the police blotter about action taken.

So yes, I can see that LL might want 'documentation', but if I am going to spend time reporting this crap I want some feedback. Just like you say LL needs input, so do we.

Actually the whole thing is ridiculous. I can get shot, nuked, pushed 50,000 meters, my customers can be shot, pushed, strafed with helicopters, but if I return fire or push the 'terrorists' I am in violation of the TOS.

LL either needs to take care of this stuff promptly OR give us the tools to not be shot by anyone at anytime with anything, OR Let us respond however we want without TOS repercussions.

I don't really care that i get shot and 'die'. I only lose about 10 seconds. But when an attack goes on for an hour and I need to stick around to take care of things, it becomes wrong. When they shoot my customers and drive them off, it becomes wrong.

Let's tax gun-use outside of designated areas. And the person that reports it gets the revenue. Oh.. I guess that would take guns away from noobs... How awful.

Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Shoot-report, Griefer gets banned

Make love in the wrong place one time and see how quick LL takes action.

Yes, it would be very unfortunate if regular residents were to get so fed up that they were to make their own unverified, unconfirmable, disposable accounts in order to retaliate against the griefers and defend themselves without endangering their own regular accounts.

My suggestions :
1) set your land no-script so that guns won't work against you. Possibly also set it no build so people can't move objects over your land.
2) Put up a sign encouraging your customers to file ARs if they are harassed. Mute and ban all the people in that group. Write down all their names, and keep them so that when distributed ban lists come up they can be added.
3) Start looking for a new piece of land to move your shop to.

Does the hardware ID ban make that idea not work as well as one might think?

Make new account, shoot griefer, griefer reports you, repeat, you get a suspension that shuts down SL on your machine and denies other accounts access.

I'm not sure about this. But to date, I haven't seen many of these disposable alts being diciplined anyway, nor would a regular resident defending themselves with an alt be likely to shoot people nearly as often as a dedicated griefer.

The really sad thing is, that LL could probably eliminate at *least* 95% of the in-world griefing issues if SL would institute a check-box to render your avatar imune to pushes.

I mean, someone needs to get your permission and have you click on a pop-up in order to hug you, but doesn't need any premission to blow you into orbit and crash your client? There is something seriously wrong with this picture.

I think that says it all really...

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I'm still waiting for this LL.

From "Internal Policies Shared with Residents: Basic Policies Regarding God Tools"
2005-09-26 updated 2006-03-08

ABUSE, KICK & HOLD

Liaisons respond to a variety of situations. When they do so, they will generally address the offender via IM for privacy reasons.

What generally transpires is a discussion with the offender and the reporter where Liaisons have to quickly assess a situation.

1. User is informed of their violation of the Community Standards & CS note card may be given to user.
2. Freeze may be used to warn if previous warning did not work. User continues to violate the CS a final warning may be given.
3. User's continued violation disrupts Second Life, user will be kicked.

Kicks should be used when Residents won't listen to reason, won't cease their actions, and are negatively impacting other residents' Second Life experience. Kicks may also be issued in cases where multiple residents are involved and it is deemed necessary to bring a large scale event under control, or if it is apparent from volume of abuse reports that a given residents' intention is to disrupt the experience of others.

Kick and Hold will be issues under the following conditions:

~ If a resident returns from a Kick and continued their actions.

~ When a resident is seen committing a suspendable offense that makes Second Life unplayable for others.

~ When someone admits to underage status, etc. (We cannot Kick and Hold on hearsay about suspendable offenses.)

~ If there are 4 or more unique abuse reports on a resident within a window of activity.*

* Note that filing false abuse reports is considered abuse.

Angel,
Your suggestions might work if I owned a half sim or more, but when someone can stand next to my land and shoot into it, it really doesn't matter what I have my permissions set to.

1) A day without scripts in SL is pretty dull, and I would have to set my vendors on subdivided parcels that would allow them to function. My land is for sale. Having it subdivided is't really an option.

2) The "group" has no officer. I joined it for 5 minutes to get the names of the hidden membership, but by ther time distributed ban lists come about, the group will likely have all new alts in it.

3) And sell my subdivided, no script land with huge "file AR's" signs and nearby 'terrorists' shooting everyone for less than what I paid for it? Or do I just keep the land I can't use?

Isn't that just the usual American twisted view on what's good entertainment ?
It's okay to make TV programs where people cut each other up and shoot their brains out with blood splattering all over, but you're not allowed to show a pair ot tits ? Not to mention two (or God forbid, several) people having interc(CENSORED)e.

Why am I not surprised at this? This kind of ineffective government is a prime example of what happens in the real world.

What was that famous addage? Evil in the world survives when good people do nothing.

I had a similar incident with a griefer when I was in the Rainbow Tiger sim chatting it up with a few people. Some guy came in and started rezzing C-Tech planes all over the place, put down a statue of a pair of prim bovine screwing each other, which emitted an annoying repetitive moo, then proceeded to call everyone in the club fags and niggers.

Granted, I was definitely glad when the Linden staff finally showed up, and I did file an incident report, unfortunately the land owner was not around, so nobdy could really do much than just sit there and wait it out for the Lindens to arrive while the guy shot up the place. He didn't use weapons with push capability, but it was freakin annoying.

As the conclusion of what happened the guy did finally get booted, and last I checked, he was banned, or at least suspended. at least I HOPE it was a ban.

When you said "...two (or God forbit, several)..." I thought yoy were talking about pairs of tits at first.

As to why LL is so determined to keep people able to shoot each ohter, I have *no* real idea, aside from some sort of Geek idea that shooting people in a game is all in good fun and a minimal interuption that shouldn't be taken seriously.

But really, give people the right to shut off push, or click to accept or decline when pushed, and there is no doubt in my mind that 95% of the current griefing problems would go away. And I can't understand why LL wouldn't want *that*.

I'm not annoyed at the shooting so much as the prohibition on shooting back.

When you come right down to it, nobody is really getting shot and no harm has been done. (But I can certainly understand why repeated and continuous shooting would negatively impact ones in-world experience.)

There should be "Shoot" and "No-Shoot" sims just as there are "Mature" and "PG" sims.

Residents should have the right to shoot/push anyone that shoots at them first, as well as anyone that shoots into, from, across, over, or on the resident's land.

Here's a thought... create a 'tagging gun' for land owners and land security. The gun would be fired at the griefer, and a tag would be made to list them as a griefer. This tag would then do several things.

1. Generate a timestamped abuse report
2. Hold griefer in place
3. Blacklist them so that they would be frozen and unable to rez anything OR
4. Automatically ban user from parcel

It'd be kinda like.... Wild America. You know that show where the guy flies in a helicopter with a tranquilizer gun and shoots animals to tag, record their weight / activity, then release them back into the wild? Something like that. It'd be an effective way to get rid of griefers within an amount of time.

But it's late, and.. yanno, I'm full of crazy ideas, like seeing if it's possible to kill someone with a stale french baguette. Hence my attempts to build a 'baguette ballista' iRL.

Anywho.. off to bed.

Are you kidding? Hugging or other close physical contact might transmit some weird variant of space herpes (or even nastier) you caught off a Gorean or something. How the hell can I know?

Orbiting and client crashing are clean*. Disease free.

*of course, this doesn't apply if they dip the bullets, sim nukes, or "IMPEACH BUSH" signs in furry/fursuit/whatever droppings before hand.

Well, we have that. There's a thing on everyone's land that let's them set the land to "damage enable" or "no damage". Unsurprisingly, the vast majority of people have it set to "no damage".

However, for some reason, an aspect of the combat system doesn't shut off under no damage, so it's still possible for people who have no desire to have their time wasted or their system crashed to have idiots who want to play shoot 'em up.

Also, I don't agree with the, "no real bullets" = "no harm done" thing. The fact that I can't actually be gunned down in cold blood has no connection at all to the fact that I *am* being subject to the equivalent of someone randomly leaning over me to push the reset button on my computer.

There are people who make their RL livings in SL, clothing desgners, scripters, etc. This is *work* for them, not "just a game". It's their livelyhood that's being endangerd when someone knocks them 6 sims away, or crashes their client, or sits around and picks off their customers and renders their shops off limits because they want to play with toy guns.

That sort of thing has no place at all in an enviroment like the one tht SL is claiming to be.

SL should either let people shut that off, or stop this, "Well, we'll slap them on the wrists...maybe...and maybe make them stand in the corner for a bit if they're really bad" when someone engages in a PvP attack. They *should* adopt a zero tolerence policy.

"Oh, Billy-Bob Brainless shot someone who didn't want to be shot? Well," clickity-clickety "Now Billy-Bob Brainless has no account."

*That* is the way that griefing out to be handled.

Does shooting someone harm them? IMHO : yes.
1) If they're working on something they lose their work when they crash. They then have to do it again, which costs time/money, and if the work can't be replaced, you've done irreprebable damage to them.
2) SL is meant to be fun. Shooting people can ruin this fun. Thus Shooting people can take away their primary reason for playing second life. If it happens a lot, it seriously damages the number and quality of people willing to log in and use SL, which thus results in smaller opportunities inworld for all of us.
3) Griefing (which is what shooters do) is therefore not just an attack on a person or place, but rather an attack on SL as a whole. It should not be dismissed by LL as "it's on your land, you deal with it". LL need to give us *serious* tools to combat it ourselves (facilitating the running of global 'ban lists' run by residents in many areas, for example.... and push limits).... or they need to take an aggressive stance on punishing griefers (I'm talking a mandatory suspension for the first instance of griefing, applied to all accounts the griefer owns. A second offence should result in a lengthy suspension of at least one week for all that person's accounts. A third reoccuring within 3 months should result in them being permenantly account, IP and hardware-hash banned from SL.

I personally don't have much cause for concern with griefers, but I do recognise that any kind of aggressive act against SL itself, as griefing is, should be very harshly punished.

You mean like the griefer tag gun made by PPI that has been game for what? Months now? It's a pain to activate, then you still have to catch them.

Pardon me Mr. Griefer, would you please wait a moment before fleeing off to do some more grief whilst i go into my inventory and attach an item? Thank you very much, there's a good chap.

Applauding so my hands bleed !