How To Do It / How Not To Do It

To all,

creative use of the voting mechanisim already in place ... YAY!

Install a government in SL... NAY!


Doesn't anyone think, or try to look into the future ... the consequences of this action?

Can anyone say, with absolute certainty, that the installed government in SL would NEVER resemble that amalgamated piece of crap governement we currently have in RL?

wizzie

Aww... stop trying to spoil everyone's fun. It's a game, this stuff is part of it (although I do think people sometimes forget that).

For me, the implications for real life completely overshadow the SL issues here.

Why is the majority so often described in these threads as "ignorant" or "random idiots"? Do people really think that little of democracy?

And ... are there really enough people in any of our democracies who would support a coup and subsequent oligarchy to make it a real possibility?

I've been told again and again that it's not a "game", it's a PLATFORM. (Pauses briefly as angels sing out....) Apparently that does not, however, mean "political platform", except when convenient.

I wasn't suggesting that Second Life was a game any more than I'd suggest a football field was a game (if you'll excuse the slightly rough analogy).

Oh, I like it. I am in the game camp but that is the best argument I have heard yet for platform. Well done!

Thanks, I actually thought about writing a small essay going into detail about how I see the philosophy behind what SL is and what place events in it take and moving onto what I see as the future of this type of technology.

But then I'm lazy and that seemed so much more elegant. Maybe some other time...

Vat eees ziss "Fun" ov vich you speak?

Well, I'm guessing people are enjoying trying to find a place for some sort of government they can run, or at very least that they'll enjoy running it...

I've always thought it was more a solution looking for a problem..

Perhaps if a problem were more self-evident, then I'd be a little more understanding there was a need

AJ asks 'What is the purpose?' it's the question a lot of us ask. I've never really gotten a satisfactory answer to that - so I assume along the same lines as Lecktor's answer

Who is in charge and who does the work? - At the moment on my own land, I'm in charge and I do the work.. noone but LL can tell me what I can't do - and thats the way I like it.

Everyone has at least one person they wouldn't want telling them what they can't do.. why would you wish to relinquish that control over your experience? What makes that 'worth it'?

More importantly, why would someone wish control over what you do? What's that angle?

Most of the government ideas that have been floated don't answer that question 'what's in it for me? what does this do that I can't do myself? What makes it worth it for me to relinquish control over what is essentially my own country?'

Already folks who want to play government can do so - like the Neutilaticalheimichmaneuver (ffs guys - I wish you had a name that was easier to remember) group - they run their own government on their own land.. I hear its working pretty well for them...

Even that isn't a huge leap from the sim/community groups that have been forming - neighbourhood groups working together with common goals... If government(s) are going to form throughout second life, I think thats where it's going to start from...

Siggy.

Ooh! If we get lots of little governments does that mean we can start having proper wars?

If they come over and start f*cking with me they will

The good thing about that is that it's entirely on their land... and thats all they have any juristiction over.. its an 'opt in' and leaves the rest of us that don't want to play 3d Kingmaker in peace and quiet

Was the title of this thread, "How To Do It / How Not To Do It" one of the chapter titles in "The Joy Of Sex"?

Just a general comment, not directed to anyone in particular, but...

For those of us in the US, I think it is an important point to make that the signers of the Declaration of Independance were wealthy educated landowners who didn't want to pay taxes to the king anymore. They ended up creating a platform that all other "Freedom" is measured against (capitalism aside).

So in this respect, the rich educated elite made a decision that impacted the greater good far behind the initial selfish motivation.

I think the MJW can be compared in that it has

1) Opened a discussion amongst us where we collectively want to go
2) Opened a door to Philip in that he indeed does want and value our opinions (and to his credit, not just the rich)
3) illustrated that "democracy" is only useful if you take the time to learn the issues and vote

I just thought this was a valid point to consider whilst condemning the newest elite that, although possibly acting for their own best interest, they may have created something that the "random idiots" can make full use of just as our founding fathers did.

It really, really, really, really bugs me that you call the MJW and those involved in this effort the "newest elite". Probably you misspoke. I hope so. There are people in SL who are far more rich and educated than you are, just as there are those who are less so. Regardless of that, it doesn't matter the level of education or wealth of those involved in your groups. The people NOT involved are not speaking up for various reasons, but it is WRONG to classify them as the "random idiots" and uneducated masses for whom you and others are creating this "freedom" (To use your analogy). Not only that, but it is a bad analogy. You are petitioning the king, not writing the Declaration of Independence!

Sans Sans Sans Sans Sans,

C'mon now, you know better. Both you and I were in MJW and are far from elite.

If I would have used the terms "land barons" and "tourists" would you better understand the comparison?

Now who was it that I spent over an hour speculating with about possible ulterior motives of the 2 highest profile members of MJW prior to the Philip meeting? Who was it that agreed that the points were worth backing even if there were indeed ulterior motives in regards to the 2 "devils" that we couldn't figure out (which at this point seems to be one thing, telehubs)?

MJW is still considered to be the essence of evil in these forums, so my comparison is still quite valid in my book. Why question the motives when the outcome is useful for all? For whatever the motivation of MJW, its legacy now seems to be the empowerment of residents, and several are taking advantage of it and some are even being accused of some of the things MJW was accused of (sorry LF, I don't agree with this newest round of critisism now aimed at you, even if I am not officially in your group)

You are being to literal with the Declaration in Independance analogy. It was merely to illustrate that sometimes people do things or ask for things for selfish motivations, but end up benefiting the whole when all is said and done.

The authors of the Declaration of Independence wanted to protect their wealth, but opened the door to a total captitalism marketplace which protected all wealth, and even ensured others could freely seek out wealth and make their own riches.

And for the record, "random idiots" was NOT my term. But the same as MJW couldn't include everyone in world, the Declaration couldnt be authored by everyone in the colonies. Maybe I should have said "tourists" then, but I was hoping the analogy wouldn't need to be hammered in with such force.

Do you really think I want to kick LL out of SL?

lmao

All I can say is CLARITY to get your point across.

Really, you all do need to work on PR for this thing. I've had pple attack me for wanting to run the country of SL. I'm not involved in it anymore, but regardless, the message you all are sending is like a game of telegraph in school. It gets all muddled in the relay. Find five points you want to make and do your research and make them. BE CLEAR!

I'm not in MJW, haven't been for days, and don't want to be president of SL.

I wasn't doing anything but stating an observation and my opinion.

No need to do PR on a damn opinion, Ms. Caligari!

Not only that, this particular forum involved one persons curiosity on government in SL and whether it was really needed.

And you of all people should know that 90% or more of press releases get filed in the circular because, they are not news.

My opinion was certainly not news, thats why I din't have my publicist involved.

What the hell is wrong with you today?

I know that this was a random thought put to the SL forum, but is that not going against all what SL is about. This is a place were mortals like myself can get away from the real life for a couple of hours a week (more if possible), from the likes of one govermental rule. Don't we have enough of that in the real world as it is. That is why most of us come here, to escape and have fun. I totaly agree with Gabe. If you want to run your own little empire, then go and buy your own island and start up there. You will soon find out how good a politician you are by the amount of people who will leave your project island like a sinking ship or on the other hand you may be what most people are looking for. In any case the decision (as pointed out by many in this discussion) will always be made by people from all walks of life and should be left up to them if they want to be part of this government or not. And sure as angels come from heaven, it is in human nature (real or otherwise) will cause sides to be drawn and the end of SL altogether.

Please leave the politics in the real world and let those who want to bring more strife into our lives, take it to a little island far out of the way from those who do not want it.