How To Do It / How Not To Do It

Read: About Government in SL

We've all seen the attempted creation of a ruling class by Anshe and others, and most of us were angry from it, and so we should be.

But in their defense, they might say they were trying to affect change in SL. Well I call their method "How Not To Do It". Now lets examine How To Do It.

What about a government? I think maybe Linden Labs is an in effect government, so okay, maybe we need representatives. But what should they represent? The sims? One elected representative per sim? That would allow the purchase of influence through private sims, or rotten boroughs (Sims where only one active person lives).

Okay but maybe we need some people to take our case to the Lindens, someone with the time to do such a thing. Maybe a group of people. But they must be elected, and should represent a cross section of society, and ideally at least one one-off payment player.

So what's the right answer? How can we go about being democratic? Discuss.

Pushed to the top for attention

Bumped for attention

Bumped

I don't see the functional purpose of a gridwide government that resembles the Galactic Senate . I think the best that can be done to influence policy is to create lobby groups and more tactical use of the Feature Voting System.

I could be short-sighted though. What is an example of an issue that could be resolved by an SL wide Government structure?

I've no idea... But this thing today with this group, floats the idea we need representation. I am asking, what could representation be like? Do we need it? Would it be a waste of time in relation to our Second Life way of doing things?

Since the TOS lets the Lindens do whatever they want (rightfully so), any sort of citizen represented government would likely be nothing more than an elaborate prop and inefficient customer feedback mechanism.

I don't claim to know everything though Anyone else care to weigh in?

Being involved with Neualtenburg since the early days I can tell you that people bite, kick and scream at the thought of VR Government. Although it is a wonderful way to collaboratively run a sim, or maybe even a collection of sims.

I am biting, kicking and screaming at the thought of VR government.

If you need something like that, get a sim or two and bring in like-minded people.

What do we need a Government for? What would they govern, behavior (TOS), taxes, etc. The last thing we need is to create a sanctioned group of influential players. If I had logged in on day one and discovered a VR Government, I would have powered down and run screaming into the hills.

I agree that the Feature Voting System should be more efficiently/creatively used.

I really don't know if we even need an in world government, or even representatives. I wanted to open the floor considering today's events and inspire debate

So far it's been good... Sometimes I do that, just ask for debate, cause I really don't know myself...

Most of us didn't really know either but we wanted to do something to effect change.

All that has gotten us is attacked.

I wanted to do something to protect Sl from the GOM precendent, even though in reality it matters not to my in world experience since I don't sell a thing.

This was the only thing happening that actually had at least a goal and some form of orginization. I agreed with the goal and jumped on in hopes of effecting change.

And for the record, the 2 residents that most concern everyone want to lobby and are firmly AGAINST a government. I like the concept of the government, but this project was not going to be it (which happened at the meeting post Philip chat when it was pretty much voted and decided to stricly lobby our notecard points, no government.)

they may have ulteriour motives, but who doesn't? I can't speak for anyone but myself, despite what others may have you beleive.

If you don't know, why not try?

That was my thought, and despite the the lynch mob mentality, this won't stop me from trying something again or participating further in this discussion

I am glad you made a rational post. As far as how not to do government, Philip brought it up for us to broadly represent.

Robin said not many ask to meet with Philip

Are we so bad because we did and got what we asked for?

Is the agenda that out of line with what you want?

We opened to anyone who agreed, never tried or claimed to speak for everyone, that was rhetoric from people who object to certain personalities in ANY capacity

Philip suggested we make this as broadly representational as possible.

I personally like the idea of in world government, but the project Im involved with now isn't that despit all the hoopla

if you do it, or try it, good luck. if its a sound foundation I would love to support it, and hope enough people would and make a go of it

i am curious about the government aspect of mmows.

I know i wouldnt want to be a politition though, too much venom if you dont appease the masses with a lobby group

btw, this isn't troll bait. anyone can flame away if they want, but I am entitled to my opinion and here it is. Not a dialog, a monologue

i do find it funny that some people insist they have an opinion but would deny me mine

then cry elitist

alright, release the hounds

Yes... Release the hounds!

But seriously, the thing that most bothered me about the whole incident is Anshe's disregard for nearly every citizen of SL, the evidence of which is only too clear and only too accessible all over the place, and as my signature when I post.

As for a government effort, or meeting with the Lindens, I think if you post to the forums prior to explain where you're coming from people may be several degrees less skeptical.

I think the whole closed off, secret nature of the thing was for some people the smoke, and they figured there is no smoke without a fire. I mean, why keep meetings with the Lindens secret unless you're trying to get something done with most people won't like.

I think openness is true of any serious politics though. If anyone wants to actually make a go of politics in SL they'd be seriously cutting off their own foot not to post about it first in the forums and make it public business. After all, you can't represent the people all on your own.

I like the idea of trying to make better use of the Feature Voting System. Currently it forbids Policy as a subject for voting, but then the whole purpose of it is to advise the Lindens of what we are most interested in.

It could use a lot of improving though! What could be done to turn the voting system into a real basis for broad-based participatory democracy? Here's some ideas I had -

Proposals first ought to be introduced on the website, but only to gather a collection of signatures. Only those that get some minimum number stick around for more than a week, and make it to the next stage. All others are dropped.

Once a proposal gets a certain minimum number of people wanting to vote on it, it becomes an official initiative. At that point it would be introduced as an INWORLD vote. Everyone who signed on during the week it is introduced would get a message asking them to vote.

The Lindens could also issue referendums in this manner.

I think it would take something like this to reach even a significant minority of the active SL population.

But you didn't flame, I appreciate that.

o This makes us stakeholders. We are not merely tourists, users, consumers, players or customers. We live our second lifes here, and for some of us many aspects of our first lifes are dependent on our second lifes now.
o In an extreme case, having to leave Second Life can mean to somebody 1) leaving her social environment 2) giving up her friends 3) loosing her job / main source of income 4) loosing her investment. It may be comparable to deporting an immigrant from Africa back to his home country after he spent 10 years in the USA building a successful career, social circle, home.

This is in context.

WE = more than the 1337 group

do you really think Anshe runs the risk of being banned?

This obviously speaks for a far broader base then the 2 land owners.

I can't assert everyone falls under this description, but I think it's a fair guess that we all more or less are invested in this platform if we take time to read the forums and post.

What you put in is what you get out. I was merely trying to put in.

I got forum banned on 3 characters on my last game because the mods didnt like me pointing out the elephant in the room when they continuelly screwed up and were irresponsible with the minors playing

I was extremely pissed at Philip for the GOM sitch, but I kiss the ground that he actually listens to people. I may not agree with his decisions, but I can't find fault with his openness and willing to discuss. I have been without that and trust me, if you want frustration, try being ignored and told off by someone you pay money to

thats how I ended up here, couldn't give them another dime even though I grinded my way to pretty high skills (which they killed my ebay auctions of)

If everything was exactly the same except Prok and Anshe weren't involved, do you think it would generate even a quarter of the heat it has?

I agree with the mission. Im indifferent at best to Anshe and her business and openly disageeable with Prok and his manners

But I agree in the mission. I would like to see a government, yes, curiosity has the better of me.

I would love to rolelay lawyer for a griefer or an injured resident.

But that is not what this is for. It may be my perception that Philip provided the opening, but this group just isn't it and I would merely want to be spectator if a government develops.

Just think about which is more offensive? Our mission or our members?

And as far as keeping it private, if we made it public while we were scurrying trying to agree on a common ground, we risked our limited time with him and reisked diluting our message with the "let's hang with Philip" crowd.

Would you tell Philip that we want to meet with him, but get back to us Philip, we're busy.

We didn't, we spent about 4 hours + in the 20 hours between the town hall and our meeting with Phillip arguing, preaching, agreeing, and finding common ground for an initial meeting.

It was a smart move not to market an incomplete product IMHO.

Maybe my opinion on the press was off base and suspicious, but i spent several years in media, and I have good reason not to trust the objectivity of the press. If you only spent half the time around the personalities and bias of this group I have faith you would understand completely my distrust

And this firestorm is pretty self evident why we didn't go to the forums prior to the meetings

The whole subject is huge, as I realize now trying to answer your question.

For every issue, there are two things to be considered: who will be in charge, and who will do the work? In the second case we will need to be clear on exactly why people are willing to do this work. Oh, and you need to keep coming back to the question: is it even necessary to address the issue?

Here's a brief example: resident discipline. Right now LL is in charge and LL employees do the work. They do it because they are paid, and that's a key point. What are the alternatives? We might let people be in charge of discipline because they think it's fun. While that might be a good way to motivate content creators, it is pretty scary with regard to discipline, no?

Is it even necessary to discipline residents? One of the huge advantages of virtual reality is that nobody can really be hurt. Annoyed, yes; but that cuts both ways. As far as discipline goes, I believe that the TOS is more of a value to griefers (since they are able to hide behind it) more than it hinders them. But that's a discussion for another thread.

As things stand, the discipline process is carried on behind closed doors. You don't get to face your accuser, for example. Some people are dissatisfied with how it is done.

But a more transparent process is going to take more work; and that work is going to grow out of proportion to the population as SL grows, so saying "Let the Linden's do it" is not really forward-looking. Their vision, in any event, is that we share the work of building the world with them while they focus on the technology.

So is there a way to divide up the discipline process and hand part of it off to residents? The Resident Review Panel is a step in that direction. But keeping all of the parties anonymous seriously limits the amount of double-checking and other sorts of investigation that can be done.

There is another way that people are motivated, and that is the possibility of making some money through the SL economy. Right now it's pretty difficult to cover more than tier fees, but as the economy gets stronger that will get easier.

In fact, if I were ambitious, I could do something about this right now. Lumiere Investigations (tm) would take on clients who have a complaint against another resident. The client would have to have gone to the Lindens first. We would investigate, write up a report, and submit the issue a second time to LL. Now, since our business plan depends on us submitting only high-quality issues to the Lindens, often getting in a positive outcome for our client, we would be very careful about which cases we took on.

If we succeeded in developing and maintaining a reputation for high integrity, why wouldn't LL welcome someone doing this sort of preparatory work as an integral part of the SL economy?

This is clearly just the outline of a discussion (actually of several). Similar bits could be written about dispute resolution, themed builds and guidance to LL in the direction the technology will move.

It's a big subject.

This keeps coming up as if it should end the discussion, but LL has always hinted that they would give some of that authority to us if we came up with a plan that makes sense.

I'll beat my old drum again, but briefly. Until such a time as the existing ToS and CS are enforced swiftly and openly it really doesn't matter what the policies are or how they are arrived at.

You can stop there if you'd like because now I'm just going to add some navel contemplation.

I believe Linden Lab is operating under mutually incompatible principles of governance and is chronically caught on the horns of their own dilemma. On one horn, I do believe that they hold many of the democratic ideals that were laid down by Tom Jefferson and friends. Thus we have things like feature voting, open forums that tolerate posts critical of Linden Lab and so on.

On the other horn, they are stewards of the world and must be the de facto police. SL is far too complex to allow the mechanisms of the grid to enforce the rules and I think they know that. However, unlike the real world, there is an asymmetry of power that utterly prevents the establishment of player governments. They own the SL world in the manner that a despot does and cannot avoid doing so not because they wish to be despotic, but because it is inherent in the fabric of SL.

For example if I am your neighbor in real life and my actions cause you harm, you can appeal to the judiciary and we enter our pleas for adjudication as equal persons under the law. If, however, if I toss a sim-bomb over the line into your sim, there are at least two parties that have been "harmed" you and LL. That is a natural effect of their ownership of the land and our leasehold. From some recent Linden statements, they'd prefer to not have to be the police but cannot avoid doing so without yielding enforcement power which I think is widely regarded as a horrible idea. Finally, call it what you will, but SL is some sort of recreation; they could indeed yield total governance to the players but as has always been the case anywhere governance is simply hard work. For a community of transients (which we all really are, regardless of tenure) it is rare to get a collaborative build going let alone the tedium of governance. Put more simply, you can't press Ctrl-Q to pop out of the real world so we are forced to provide for our own real world government; problems don't cease with a keystroke.

So, how could they better do it? If my thesis of "dilemma of their own creation" is correct, here are things that would make it easier. Acknowledge that they are a mostly benevolent dictatorship and not any form of democracy. A benevolent dictator always has the privilege of listening to the subjects but doesn't necessarily have to. Furthermore, the dictator can say "this is my decision, no appeals" there is far less work to be done managing conflicting interests.

Another thing that would ease the burden would be to dispense their justice in the light of day; this is what separates a benevolent dictatorship from a despot. For too long LL has held "privacy rights" over open justice. This has a number of ill effects: it does not allow people to see justice being done and thus they can easily feel that it is not. In the end who cares if the privacy rights of "Joe Avatar" are violated, Joe isn't a person and therefore has no privacy to be protected. A large part of the car-crash of yesterday's "star chamber" meeting was because of the perception of hidden machinations not because there necessarily were any. Also, whose privacy is being protected? "Joe Avatar" might live next door to me in RL, if he doesn't tell me I'll never know. This is the other facet of open justice, if I see in the police blotter "someone was suspended for violating CS" I learn absolutely nothing about how I should comport myself and neither does anyone else. If I see "Joe Avatar mowed down a simful of concert-goers" I learn that such is not tolerated and if I was one of the concert attendees, it would increase my feeling that the world was just. If on the other hand, if I see that Joe was suspended for misspelling "fark" in a PG sim, that would also tell me something about the dispensing of justice.

These forums are an excellent way to let the sunshine into a global community which is far preferable to seeking real-time audience with the king. In someways we are doing it already by beseeching the king in Hotline to Linden. Many of the posts in that forum are seeking clarification of whether I can or can't do so-and-so. More open justice would make a clearer line for everyone to follow.

In conclusion, I am asking the Lindens to be less tolerant, more dictatorial, and more open. Because of the inherent structure of the world, I see no alternative. To do this means having to abandon some of their well intended but flawed ideals - but not many - for the benefit of all.

They're not. The Lindens are the little invisble gnomes that run the mechanics of the World, and the Residents are the people who live there. In fact I think they shouldn't have to do police work, that should be done through more comprehensive land tools by the Residents themselves.

That's why I think the whole "let's make a group and open dialogue with LL" approach is fatally flawed. It's a wrong view on LL's repsonsibilities, and a wrong way to do it, too, as you've already mentioned.

I have no problem with some Residents making their own democratic government. See Ulrika and Neualtenburg I have a problem with one such government becoming entangled in any way, shape or form with LL.

That's a new, and interesting way of approaching it. Linden Labs have ultimate power cause they write the code, so maybe they're too powerful to ever be a part of the equation. Maybe we can have voluntary governments, and controlled sections like Ulrika's place as you mentioned, but maybe it's all resident controlled. Sounds like a good possibility

II will never submit to any form of government in SL. That's not what I signed up for. I got enough of that in RL. Having decisions and policies imposed on me by the ignorant majority is not something I will voluntarily submit to in SL... I'll packup and leave SL and release my land to LL, I would not even try to sell it..

Just my opinion...

Well it might be the situation we don't need a government This is just an ideas place, so we can keep it all calm and theoretical here

I have to admit I haven't been following any of the threads relating to this, but I'm really curious...

Just what would the point in a SL government be?

Self importance.

lol!

In that case I say the way forward is religious cults! I've currently got openings for high priests to organise people to worship me as part of SL's newest religion!

Some interesting ideas on the Feature Voting, Ananda.

I would also like to know what, exactly, we expect a government in SL to do.

If someone wants to create a governmental system with opt in SL residents, have at it. This is the type of thing SL is wonderful for. For the rest of us, leave us be.

The problem with the cabalistic meeting for me was that after all the "make it public" references by Phillip, nothing was made very public after the meeting. If I had seen something from Anshe directly afterward, ie "we had a meeting and discussed a few things - get more info here and let us know if you want to be involved" the reaction would have been muted. Instead, I had to get the info from various flaming posts, which naturally tinged my reaction.

Additionally, reading the transcript I often felt that Phillip and Anshe were not even in the same conversation at times. My initial thought was that the Linden "make it public" philosophy was required to be said out loud to cover themselves, while there was a tacit understanding that Anshe would do whatever she thought she should, including not making any of the provided docs public. I realize this is paranoid, but the situation certainly lends itself to that line of thinking.

It would not have matter which SL resident was involved, I would have thought similarly.

There is no world in SL and no one lives in it. There is a protocol for exchanging and displaying certain types of data, most significantly some proprietary 3 and 2.5 dimensional data.

The conflicts caused by one customer's ability to affect another customers storage space and processing timeslice are not side effects or oversights, they are there by intent.