World War in SL Inevitable!!!

I declared war on all of you.

Dude, that's awesome. >D

I'm not biased like that, Feynt. I hate furries and Goreans equally.

I as a soldier in the Merczateers, Grand army, and the Alliance navy marine corp agree that this war is inevitable. The army's are primed. and no one actually likes eachother that much any more, if you cant find an army to fight for that will accept the fact that you use shields you should join the Interpol however. the ANM and The merczateers are groups that use Training sessions and such. E-3,Sergeant,and Soldier in the ANM, Grand army of the republic , and merczateers in that order.

I suppose the incentive would be _fun_. If any "conflict" does break out in SL, it would not be a war, but a GAME; and "war" being a fun sport would make it more likely to happen than if everyone feared the prospect of getting killed or maimed, like most of us do IRL. Will there be any SL wars? I have no idea.

Will I see any of the warring factions at the Jessie Weapons and Shields Trade Show?

Hahaha that one is good.

Heh. World War.
Its an interesting thought, but really, its not gonna happen. Having been a member of the two largest combat groups in SL, the Merczateers and the AN, and having been in command positions of both, and also having joined, fought, or studied the majority of combat groups in SL, its simply not going to happen.

World War 1 was a massive entanglement caused by true animosity and hatred, with no regard for loss and damage. World War 2 was much the same only easier to sort out, but still with a disregard for consequence, and in SL we are very much aware of consequence.

Allow me to prove step by step why your reasoning is false.

There are three different broad types of combat groups in SL.

There are groups like the AN and the Merczateers. Generally large, but not nessicarily (The Templars were only 7 or 8 in number), with their own gear, weapons, training, rank structure. They are heavily RPed, in fact they are almost roleplay settings in their own right, and though there may be individuals that are agressive, they are mainly not. They may strike a foe, but usually they just train, fight griefer attacks, and make cool stuff, and have the fun of military stuff without the risk of death. They will not go to fullscale war, at least not grid-wide because they are AR magnets. When I am with a team of AN, I can be a model ciitzan and someone will whine about me being a n00b griefer becaues I have a gun. So a gridwide fight would lead to too much trouble. We may skirmish, but they just aren't gonna do it. Also, most are concious of the disruption caused by open fights in regular areas, and avoid it to avoid causing issues to others.

Next are the inactive groups. There's tons of little groups that really don't... do anyhting. They may have guns, or planes, but they pretty much sit around, or don't actively accomplish anything. I've been in far too many of these, but in the grand scheme they don't matter.

The last group I will call Agitators.
These are the usually short-lived but highly active and aggressive groups, such as Interpol (and its god-knows-how-many clone groups), TCG, Nanotech Republic, and the SBS. They may not be griefers, but they can easily be considered as such. They are usually made up of trigger happy folk who see combat RP as all about shooting, or control, or power. They will attack at random, or grief/harass combat groups (Particularly the larger ones like Mercz and AN) to try and raise their reputation or egos, will harrass over small things... and are generally small. At the least, they are short lived, at least in activity. In my 8 months in SL, a good 90% has been in combat teams, and most of that time has been spent fighting groups like this. I can't count the number of groups that have edclared war on my groups, then disappeared after a few weeks or months.
I call them agitators because they start fights. The AN and the Mercz may go to war, but it will be after a long buildup, and I garuntee it would be short, vicious, and ended amicably, with an honest defeat, because the RP groups usually don't allow such things as shields. Agitator groups, however, make heavy use of the "whatever works" tactic, and are persistant. In a way they're like a chihuaua, only with sit shields and worse grammer, but that just is a personal opinion since I've spent so much time sneding these punks home.
If you're going to get randomly griefed, chances are it will be a pack of Agitators rather than a squad of RPers.

The agitators could concievably spark a war, except they have no bases, thus nowhere to attack, and usually put up "HQs" in sandboxes, thus being, again, outside of attack. And unlike agitator groups, the larger groups rarely attack in safe land, due ot TOS concerns.

The other reason that they cannot is that the larger groups consider them a small annoyance. They show up, get shot to hell, maybe set off a nuke, then go away. We know we can weather them with some patience, and delivering a sound thrashing or two. *shrugs*

Nowthese are generalizations, and my own personal opinions, so please don't start going "But this specific group did X and Y and Z which makes you wrong". I'm being sweeping, to avoid this thread from seeming like a personal attack on any specific group. But these opinions have been formed over alot of examination, and I would like to think that among the combat RPers, at least the AN and he Mercz, I'm well known enough and respected neough that my opinion holds weight.

And see? I made it all the way through without mentioning the Battle of the Bathtub.

*Addendum*

And as some have pointed out, superweapons do make war silly and pointless. A war between the RP groups would be fun, but we instead just lay in kill areas or use HP counters... because it takes more skill and is more fun to take a person down with an assault rifle than to use a phantom shield and a seeking meteor.

And I'll say it agian. Only a coward uses a shield in a straight fight. Only people who I tink deserve shields are security at clubs.

The best point made so far is that in SL, the 'gods' are real. A war... an actual, cross-sims, vituperative conflict intended to *destroy* the enemy... is impossible, because such a disruptive action would lead to Lindens taking notice.

If someone can literally turn off the battlefield, and has incentive to do so (ie, preventing the mass-scale griefing that a true 'war' in SL would spawn), then war becomes a matter of idle speculation, not possibility.

Harlequin, you sound like you know this subject. Can you tell me if there are armed conflicts in SL where the objective is control over land?

I've often tried to get my hardcore gaming buddies interested in SL by pointing out that the land here is worth something. If your forces could take and hold land in SL you've seized a valuable asset, potentially a means of economic production. Land in SL could support factories that produce weapons and ammo, thus ramping up the military might of your forces.

Oh god, how I wish it was doable.

Theres a problem though, that would make actually taking land not possible, Well, two, really.
First is the issue of tier. its a game, but I'm not willing to pay 10 or more bucks a month to support land some other group has, even if they took it fairly. Its just not going to happen. And then there's the bane of all SL, whichis people being around. The AN is absolutely huge, and though we can bring quite abit of force to bear when needed, the base stands empty at times, especially late at night. Thus there is nothing stopping a few people from coming in and going "ZOMG WE T))K UR B@S3!!". Add to that the issues of transferring land ownership and perms nad stuff... its a neat idea but won't happen.

Honestly, the combat system in SL is terrible. Individuals have made systems in game that are great, but LL's basic unsafe land system is buggy, prone to crashes, and overll poorly designed. I personally think thery should be ashamed that this method made it past beta and that they should fix it =P

I'm a hardcore gamer, and I play SL for the ability to make new gear, and the social structures. When I want hardcore gaming, I go to Steam and play DYstopia or Counterstrike.

It sounds like, and for give me for saying so being, a newbee and all, SL has sociallogically evolved to about feudalism..... If that be the case... what we need is a few Cybermonk Orders working on the SL equivlent of the "doctrine of the just war" .... I mean people we really do need to find some High culture in here, "SL" ..... Loved and Idalized as they are Tune IM porn and the latest SL Shooter doesn't feed the soul very well. If we Don't we're going to end up with SL or its inevitable VER x.xx children mimicking Barberism "To Crack or be Cracked ".... if any of ya haven't read it .... please go out and find it ... "The Sovereign Individual" (I believe one of the authors was Lord Rees-Mogg). Don't kid with your selves guys and gals.... the lindenknights may be able to hold down the hords for a while but as this technology matures and franchises and coellesses with others the days of the lindenknights snuffing out our arch- nemieses and Cyber Hitlers by canceling there subscription... will go by the way side as certainly as chivellry and the Tutonic oath... with the inevitable 128 bit incryption (probably thanx Clanlinux).....and absolute annanimity that will come with it. The most valueble thing and there for the most sought after commodity will be in IM or script ..... a man or woman who keeps there word....

SlimD Dannunzio "and yes My spelling suck" thanx for the good read people

Extreme taxes and tyrants are the inevitable wage, of passing the
buck. So soon will the end of tyrany be when once again, a
vast majority of us reclaim our responsablities and proclaim;
The buck stops here, and It belongs to me.... SlimDandee

For somebody whos "spelling sucks", Slim, your post confused me more than anybody has in a very long time. And thats impressive.

Anyhoo, can this really be controlled? With the complex structure of SL, people can keep creating guns. If the Lindens ban guns, they will start using fire. They cannot disable physical reaction to harmful particles without twisting up alot of the game. Some objects that use physics as their entertainment expression will be recognized as shooters. How can the Lindens seperate this?

I personally do not think they can. So, let these guys have their war. If they want to act like a bunch of five year old redheads running around with their thinker chopped off, so be it. Get it out of your system. Just keep it where you settle your differences, and 90% of SL still doesn't care.

Hmm. I keep getting asked to join armies. Like, if I don't pick a side, I'll end up as tank tread lube or someth'n when some big ass group of SLers come rolling through the countryside.

I usually say, "Sorry, I'm all joined out."

All the armies should bind together to form the Griefer Sheid'sploit Brigade. I can't wait for the pirates to fight the robots from the future!!!

*puts on his funny dictator hat and then goosesteps around his 512 sq m plot, using the gesture /seigheil repeatedly until ARed*

If we have a war, can I be Switzerland?

I wanna be The First Decemberween! ...wait, what are we talking about now?

see, wasting your time in here let me get the paranoia post in ahead of you - your own damned fault, Beatfox.

Oh, don't pretend like you didn't use your FIC connections to get Barbarra to post in here JUST so you could lure me away from that thread! I see right through your crafty scheming, you maize flat cake.

I don't think there'd be a non-consensual war in SL. (possibly one where both sides agree to some terms and boundaries of war, that might even be fun)
Even if there was, I don't see it being a major problem - SL is large enough for non-warring civilians to continue on with their daily second lives.
If it got out of hand, there would be more than enough grievances to put a stop to major problem-causers.
This is just my opinion, but those who are likely to start a large-scale war are the type to think that because they are in a virtual world, they are free from morals and rules govorning the first life. Those individuals would be more likely to "cheat" in a war by using unfair, possibly illegal scripts and methods (ex: attempting to shut down an enemy's sim). Thereby making themselves obvious targets for expulsion from SL.

If there were an impending war, I'm sure news would spread like wildfire, and SL and Linden would have ample time to prepare. =P

I honestly would relish a full scale, no holds barred war. I'm the first to admit I revel in the chaos and carnage of online combat, and battle that spanned safe and unsafe lands, firefights in jessie, troops using a club as a staging area to hit an enemy base... the sort of stuff that war movies and fiction are made of... would make me a verry happy psychopath. Sadly, most people seem to equate Fighting with Childishness, and so rather than get swept up in the RP, would just run to the Lindens.

Wow, this thing is still alive? I forgot about this thing until I checked my profile to look at some of my old posts.

From: someone

There will be no war, i was told some false information from some gossipers bla bla bla. Now can we let it die, this thread was intresting at first, now its just boring. Keep talking if you must, to bad i can't delete posts but meh, mind as well let people see what's up (or not up)....

== (maybe) Not true. Hard to find good information and help these days

No what i feel is childish is your belief that we should get swept up in YOUR role play! Do i ask you to be involved in mine? No!...you are welcome to your role play as long as it doesn't interfear with other's entertainment..use the Frag Foo system or something like that and have at it! or do you need one shot death weapons and nukes to have your war?

Can't run a war when most of the sims are designated as SAFE zones, and the landowners won't allow 3rd-party scripts to run.

Don't you have some homework to do?

On this Day of our lord Phillip, the 5th of 1.9, the Soveriegn Sim of Clearwing,declares war on Schizura




NOT

The war has been going on for some time, haven't you noticed?

I've only been here for 5 months and I've seen many griefer attacks.
The last one, named "Ultra Lag", took down several sims and impaired others.

1. Push-guns work on "no script", "no create" land.
2. We have to leave "create and "Outside scripts" turned on in order for vendors to work.
3. We can't "auto return" a specific users items, so they can drop "shouting turds" on to our property, even after we have baned them, and then we have to log in and manually return them.
4. We suspect... [Deleted to prevent giving them ideas]

There is also the "Billboard" "Anti-bush" war.

The main focus of the attacks is to try and make the land unusable or interrupt the business.

---
It's like the neighbor in RL that moves in and makes the place look like a dump so he can buy more land plots cheep.

Or the inverse where some snooty rich person buys a place and then demands that everyone else clean up there farms so that it looks like some ideal view by requesting zoning laws.