We Need A Central Government

People in real life need governing bodies to establish common principles of justice, ajudicate disputes, and provide for the common good.

Behind our avatars are real people who share that exact same need.

The citizens of Second Life need a government for the same purposes and with the same powers as governments in the physical world.

We do... Linden Labs and TOS. We don't need anything further as a whole, but I think that you'd find support for sim-by-sim self governance to go above and beyond what LL and TOS offer.

It shouldn't be grid wide though. Not everyone wants or needs more than LL and TOS.

No we dont, we already have one - Linden Labs.

What we NEED are local ones to help LL out.

SL is not real life. It's a privately owned company that provides a subscription-based online gaming service. All it "needs" are company employees to enforce its Terms of Service, tools for its employees to effectively do their jobs, and the balls to do so even though it might theoretically cost them a customer or two. (I wager those lost customers are more than made up by those who would pay more if LL did a better job of self-policing than they currently do...)

Done. Linden Labs.

Everytime someone says we *need* a government I have always asked one simple question :

why?

to this date no satisfactory answer has been presented.

it is a solution looking for a problem.

Siggy.

No we don't. We already have a benevolent dictatorship.

Long Live His Eminence, Phillip Linden

Nah.

Wow How you came to solve the mystery in only 6 short lived days in SL, well 5 really we were down for a day.

man Took Me & Tang 2 weeks to get off the welcome area.

Are you sure your not Al Gore ?

Tang we have simply got to get out more hun !!!

well gee NO wont be buying any tickets to the central Goverment show today.

oh ! you know anything about sex balls ? I have one that keeps trying to dominate the other any help would be great

-Waves

I think that there are needs (even "wants" would justify discussion); but I also think that if we first got clear on what those needs were that solutions would present themselves which didn't look very much like government.

This forum is necessary, because we will only be able to have that more theoretical discussion when the protesters lose interest and wander off; and that won't happen in the main threads.

Are you saying that any special interest group should be on the main forum? why have the group forums then?

This isn't a "special interest group," though... it's a problem that applies to all residents, in and of itself.

That said, I don't think we need more of a "central" government than we already have. Grassroots governments at the sim level are more of what I would like to see. Let me reiterate my thoughts there.

It is a special interest group since only the TOS, CS and LL are the govermnet. This is a special interest group that want changes. It still is a special interest group, nothing more.

We need a government when employing this electronic form of interaction for the same reasons that we need a govenment in the day to day reality: to establish justice, promote the general welfare, to engage in central planning to forestall the chaos of rampant capitilalist production, and to redistribute income and wealth in an equitable and humane manner.

Stupidfish Online Translator: [We Need A Government] ==>

"Linden Labs do a fine job of running their service, and I can do most things I want in there. But what I really like doing is bullying other people. In order to be really good at this I need some elevated position of power over everyone else. I propose people elect me as some kind of government or whatever, then I can enjoy myself telling people what to do and how to do it. Nothing like making people kiss my dirty feet"

*** End Translation ***

Invect

You have been in SL less than a week (unless you are an alt) and I absolutely refute the idea that you know enough about SL to make such assertions.

Everything Toy has said in this and other threads I support.

Alexa

Justice is already established via LL and the TOS.
General Welfare - starter land, stipend bonuses, various freebies...
'Chaos of rampant capitalist production' - WTF? elaborate please.....
Redistribute Wealth - thats what GOM is for, as for fair and equitable.... why? why is this *needed* .. especially when you don't *need* money in SL...

I don't think any of this is applicable to Second Life - the real world doesn't translate into a video game... noone in SL *needs* anything to exist - it's all degrees of luxury, and everyone has access to exactly the same tools to make what they want.

Now what would a government do for *me* that I can't already do myself?

Redistribution of wealth?

Do you know what you are talking about? I think not.

We don't pay taxes and the only inworld fee's LL collects are for directory listings.

What wealth are you talking about being redistributed? Or are you just firing off catch phrases you heard while snoozing through political science courses?

Briana Dawson

What is your defintion of Justice?

Briana Dawson

I can think of a few things (for example, better zoning)... but on the other hand, if I really wanted those things, I could get together with a group of like-minded people, buy a nice big plot of land, and then we as a group could set any rules we see fit, within the confines of the game engine.

We could even choose a President or Empress or whatever, but there would be no pretext that this individual has any power over anyone who does not actively choose to participate.

Maybe we could use more tools to empower groups to have better control over their own lands... but the approach should be actively DE-central. Any system that enables one player to coerce another against their will is a non-starter.

Redistribution of wealth? LOL I'd love to be there when you demand the best creators in SL to hand over their hard earned money. They have spent many hundreds of hours to be able to make what they do. Even me in a tiny way, as I am just starting, no way are you getting your hands on any of my money.

And to whom do you suggest the money be distributed? Those who do nothing to attempt to learn anything in SL?

Your posts are ridiculous.

Alexa

It'll NEVER happen. The moment rumors of anything like that surface, watch people flock to GOM or IGE in droves.

Further, why should someone who's toiled away for hours to create a desirable product be forced to 'distribute' their proceeds. No thanks.

Interesting! This discussion topic seems to come up more or less regularily in the forums. And usually the majority of participants seems to dislike or ridicule any form of 'government'; which is understandable given that most people tend to dislike 'governments' in the real world. (Some even want this forum closed )

On the other hand: if you take a relaxed look at the documented era of human history, every society seems to develop a kind of government after some time. (Even small tribes have that and one could argue that even families have one.) It is interesting to see how much people in societies with elaborate govermental system abhore 'government' and how much people in chaotic or - temporary - anarchic societies crave for government

Therefore it is hard for me to believe that 'government is a solution in search of a problem'. It crops up to often ... The forms of government and the amounts in which this government wants to control the lifes of its citizens differ wildly, though.

And I don't believe that SL is 'just a game'. It is a growing society; 'virtual' or not. For some residents this virtual life is rather important and even produces a more or less important part of their income. I think it is understandable that at least these people look for a little more stability, laws and the effective enforcement of these laws in SL. (And, no, the TOS doesn't qualify as laws; they are much to vague and unspecific in many regards. And LL does not provide 'justice'; You need a court for that ...) For anyone doing business in SL it would be nice, for example, to have a kind of working contract law. (There already were some discusssions on that.)

It probably is not feasible to have a complex central government for the whole of SL; there is now way to finance that. And the majority does not want it. But it is obvious that the Lindens are not uninterested in these issues. If any form of government (more then the 'Linden rule' with their godlike powers) ever comes to SL, I expect that it will be a somewhat volontary thing, it might be a kind of grassroots movement and probably it will not neccesarily encompass all of Second Life.

If the ToS, the CS, and Linden Labs alone were at discussion here, I might agree, but you're welcome to your opinion. I just can't follow your logic on this, since it's a topic that (potentially) encompasses far more than that. It's like saying the Hotline to Linden is somehow a special interest group - it pertains to every walk of Second Life, but it's specifically related to LL.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion. As I am my own.

the key ord being 'potentially' there is no player government in SL, save for a few groups. I am sorry you cnt follow my logic. This forum is simply giving credence to what a few want for all.