What is the point of having Lindens?

This is not an anti-linden flame thread. I really want to know.

I've seen Lindens ignore infractions or refuse to deal withthem even as they happened right in front of their eyes. I've been told that Lindens and the Abuse team don't like dealing with things because SL is supposed to be citizen-run (despite not giving us the tools or power). Hell, Torley even said they rarely bother reading the forums.

So why do they exist? They dont police us. They don't protect our property rights. I understand the need to have LL people to stop grid attacks, to maitenence, and all that, but beyond that, given their policies, aren't the Lindens just a drain on LL's resources?

I'm willing to listen to counter opinions here, as I really want help understanding this whole issue. And I'd really love to see multiple Lindens, as well, giving their opinions. Though I doubt that will really happen

Do you remember that the movie "The Last Starfighter" in which an aging Robert Preston was this space alien version of Prof. Harold Hill who monitored a video game on Earth in order to recruit potential pilots to help defend some part of the galaxy or other? Maybe i'm too conspiratorally-minded in my old age, but that is what I suspect: that the Lindens are there for the same kind of purpose--to watch, to observe, to evaluate what people make, what they organize, how they interact....and how they choose to deal with crap.

Yes, obviously the Lindens are not there to intervene, I'd agree with you on that. More often than not, they seem to be there just to observe how the population reacts to and handles random bizarre changes and events--some of which are introduced serendipitously by outside forces of grief and sillines, while a large number of other seemingly wacky dvelopments are introduced into the world by LL itself.

I have come to think that SL is "not just a product in transition, it is a transitional product." The ultimate goal of LL ain't to have a really good, smoothly-functioning game called Second Life. The goal seems to be to make something else, and to get there, a popluation had to be identified and...well...sort of trained, for lack of a better term, to be part of that future product or series of products. The Lindens who wander in-world may simply be there to identify who has the potential to contribute to the next level of whatever it is that the company is working towards.

Oh, PEOPLE Lindenses!

I thought you meant the other kind, from the title.


*jingles pockets*

I was about to say, Lindens make the vorld go round, zee vorld go round...

"maamaa Linden maamaaaaa Linden i need to be protected!!!"

they arent here to protect you but to ensure all work, they are the mechanicians of SL not your f*cking personal driver

Hell, I'd be happy to not have them as protectors, Kyrah.
The issue is that they dont give us the tools. We can't do anything like push another resident. We can't orbit them. We can't even name them in the forums.
Maybe they're approaching some set of tools to allow us to deal with people who cause problems, but for now, we're severly limited.

Yes I agree..they ignore groups who build on others lands..and on protected lands..and spread their litter on others property gee i guess you and i CAN agree on something

My understanding is that individual Lindens who appear in game are generally there are players, on personal time, like you or me.

My further understanding is that the correct approach is to file abuse reports or post in Land Mangement depending on the issue at hand. In my experience, Nonspecific Linden has been responsive to these requests.

Lindens are not on call 24/7 just by virtue of being Lindens. And, even if you're stuck upside down in a cage in a tree being tortured by another player, and there is a Linden on the grid, they will not step in and intervene. TP home and file an abuse report.

There are no police in SL, Linden or otherwise. That's a parameter of the game you choose to play in. For most of us, this is a positive aspect of SL.

*Blinks at StPaul*

Do I know you?

Then maybe the Lindens need to rewrite the community standards:
Reporting Abuse
Residents should report violations of the Community Standards using the Abuse Reporter tool located under the Help menu in the in-world tool bar. Every Abuse Report is individually investigated, and the identity of the reporter is kept strictly confidential. If you need immediate assistance, in-world Liaisons may be available to help. Look for Residents with the last name Linden.

While speaking with Dee Linden (very nice!) and other Lindens, I learned that they -are- there for work. They -do- get paid. They receive a paycheck from Linden Labs. Most have alt accounts. As Torley has also said in response to "burning" money, if you want to completely remove any Linden $ from circulation, you send it to a Linden. The reason behind this is the Lindens do not use the money.

Lindens, correct me if I'm wrong, though I'm pretty sure I'm not (on most of what I've posted, at least).

The lindens know where the really *hot* skyboxes are.

That is the only reason I keep 'em around.

Oh, and they made everything I use daily in SL...I guess that's a good reason.

Gotta spend that venture capital on something.

Heh....yes, I think you could well be correct there.

That's extremely profound, and I absolutely love it. It's unfortunate that the rest of the thread ended up focusing on whether or not the Lindens should be police. The potential of your questions dwarfs the petty "Lindens should stop people from stealing my texture/idea/whatever."

I hope this conversation stays on topic, rather than going 'round the old "How do I protect my blah blah blah" that is already everywhere else. I'm not saying that it's not important, just that there is a time and place, people.

Aldo, did you take the red pill or the blue one? I forget which is which.

well the red one is...what's the word for it?.... oh yeah, a "suppository." I'm not real keen on those, so I don't think it was that one. The blue one is either what you give your mule when his pee looks like Mountain Dew Code Red, or ...hmmm...was that what you were supposed to take if you got captured by large lumpy things in WOW and you didn't want them to get any information out of you...either way, I don't recall taking either the red or the blue. maybe it was the mauve? That one makes you act like you're from New Jersey.

Yeah - but BEFORE contacting them look at their profile carefully, if it's one of the 'don't BOTHER me, RTFM!' types, save yourself frustration, choose another...

On a related note, if they've chosen to list all the usual suspects of link to this,link to that, etc. (like LSL wiki, SL wiki, etc.) in their profiles, they tend not to be very interested in one on one assistance - in my personal experience.

To put it more succinctly, some seem to be saying RTFM much more politely than literally saying "RTFM". However, their intent and personal preference is pretty clear.

YMMV

LOL

I can understand why the Lindens prefer to take a 'hands-off' approach, but at the same time I do think they take it too far. There are occasions which *need* intervention, and when it doesn't come you lose players and disillusion others.

Just as an example, I remember a griefer who appeared several months ago. His avatar was a racist stereotype, which should have been enough to get him instantly banned. He wasn't banned, and his presence was tolerated by the Lindens, although he began a career of griefing events and individuals. I was at an event which was griefed by him, when at least four abuse reports were sent. Multiply this by the number of days he was inworld, and you get a hell of a lot of abuse reports. But nothing was done and his presence was tolerated.

But then he finally launched an attack against the grid, and brought down second life for, as I recall, about five hours. I believe he *was* finally banned after this. A little late, I feel.

There are many people who invest a great deal into second life, and I don't mean financially. There are many who play who are housebound and disabled. People in this situation will tend to be much more immersed in the world of second life, and therefore much more vulnerable. When people like this are cheated inworld, or suffer other forms of injustice, many of them will feel this much more strongly than those of us who can shrug, turn off our computers and go for a walk.

I appreciate all too well that the dramas which reach the forums are often just the surface indication of something that might have all kinds of subterranean ramifications; we only hear a very small part of the story. But my experience in second life does make me think that the Lindens are sometimes a little too laid back, and should perhaps step in a little more readily when something is happening which shouldn't happen. Inaction can sometimes be mistaken for indifference.

IMHO, I think they have a lot of books laying around and need bookends, or maybe doorstops to let a breeze in. Dunno other than that since I've seen far too many times griefing has gone toally unanswerrred by LL. For that matter I've had a few expereinces with it myself and was totally unsatisfied with the resulting encounters. There are a few who show concern when a ToS prob arises by they are far too few. and BTW I am NOT flaming, I am stating simple facts.

People always complain about game GM's when stuff doesnt go the way they want. No MMORGP by default has a "hands on" approach to it they cant. It cant be a report from 1 person simply because its 1 person stuf gets done when a group of people report it but if he was bugging one person not so much a big deal. Its just they are usually busy anyone that has been a GM can tell ya the lindens prolly work alot harder!!

My experience has been that the Lindens are like any other employees in any other type of business. In every workplace you have the slackers, the not so bright folks, the well meaning but ultimately ineffective low level staffers, and finally the hard working and honestly useful and effective people who are generally a few select individiduals.

Over a recent weekend we had a problem with my partner's island. I won't get into a long description of the problem, lets just say it involved a whole lot of land editing to fix and him having to do it in lag that felt like walking through waist deep mud.

The first Linden who was brought in to see the situation over the weekend, looked around and said "Your island looks fine to me" and left... left quickly and wouldn't answer when called back.

BUT... The second Linden to deal with the issue on Monday was extremely helpful, apologetic and basically a complete angel to the rescue.

So basically it's just like any other place of business you walk in to. If the first person can't or won't help you, eventually you can find the one who can and will.

My theory with abuse reports is that they must get thousands of them every week. Out of those thousands it's very likely that hundreds are basically nonsense "He's touching me" "No I'm not" "Yes you are" "No I'm not" crap. In the midst of that probably several legitamite complaints fall through the cracks.

The Lindens run the place. They're businesspeople, they setup the sims, they create the world for us to fill, they define the licenses, regulations, and contracts for us to abide by while we're in-game.

But if we break the regulations, they're not there to police them. Problem is, nobody is.

You've been in SL for over a year, and you don't know what to do with Lindens?

Someone call the IQ police, please.