Can't buy land on "Azure Islands", but it is listed for sale in the land listing!

Anshe, their selling price IS $0.
It seems the only real difference from what you are doing is the price they have chosen. If what you are doing is ok, then what they are doing is ok.

Thats the point.

heh sorry if any one misunderstand any thing, im merly the sim mule, I just keep things ticking, adam and nexus own it.

On the other note, yes you can buy land in the sim, allthough due to the way land is handles in estate sims we had to come up with a deed system, check the infomation notcards or im myself or nexus for more infomation.

You can rent and you can also rent to buy

3 options for the same bit of land.

I would like to ask, if newbies buy e.g. Anshe Chung's cheap land:

Will it preclude them from buying First Land?

Can they sell it when they decide to move on?

If so, do they have to sell it back to A Chung for the price they paid?

Or can they sell it on the open market?

Are they advised by A Chung that they can also buy their own First Land, as another option, from LL?

Thanks

Alexa

Their selling price is not L$0, Lindar. It may be rented for an unknown amount of money, or it may be purchased for another unknown amount of money. In no way is the selling price actually zero.

Thats a good point. From what I have learned most of these land deals involve forming a group, adding the landlord to the group as an officer, then the landlord deeds the land to the group and then leaves the group. So the question is does a newbie have to form a group and does this group nullify his first land.

A newbie would seem better off buying LL first land, selling it and then maybe going for Ansheland.

Traxx continues to print slander about me here in the forums, so I'm happy to continue to rebut it. He thinks if he doesn't put me by name, that no one by now knows what he is talking about me. But the fact that he sticks to this story persistently and idiotically is merely proof of the persistence and idioticism of his own very personal baggage in this matter, and his own very personal collection of grievances.

No newbies were pressured at all by any "schemes". As has been copiously and frequently documented, I was in this area of Cecropia and Calletta buying land from Anshe. I was also talking to a customer who had first approached me from word-of-mouth (I didn't approach him!) about selling his first land and renting from me. While there, I spotted someone looking at land and I asked that (seemingly) new person if they were selling their land and interested in renting. It was the same question I had just asked another person who I advised who ended up buying in Tuliptree, selling to someone else, not me, but renting from me for awhile before moving on to her further pursuits. That person can be brought forward as a witness too to my good intentions and actions.

Why did I ask Traxx's "friend" (sycophant) if she wanted to sell her land? I'm not in the first-land reclamation business. I have a program -- not a "scheme" that offers tier donation of 512 in our group for the equivalent of land. For new people, we help them find a good piece of 512 and give them tips on selling it. They do not have to sell it to us. They can live on it and never come and rent even if they accept our advice -- advice is free and merely part of making a customer base. They can sell it to us at a market rate after becoming informed. They are never pressured or scammed in this process.

The reason I asked her is merely because she had land next to the land I bought from Anshe, and the land I was hoping to buy from my customer -- no mystery here (the facts and records show it).

This false witness did not sell to me, proof of no "pressure," but she then proceeded to place a board over her land in such a way as the root prim was on her land, and the prims blocking my land extended on her parcels. She physically blocked the visibility of my land and prevented it from being right-clicked and sold. I had to summon the Lindens to have it removed.

THAT'S THE KIND OF PRESSURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THIS STORY, AND IT IS NOT COMING FROM ME.

Now, does a person willing to resort to those kind of strong-arm tactics sound to you like a shrinking, shy newbie about to be "separated from her land" by the evil Prok? Hardly.

The person Traxx keeps harping on -- a person he has brought forward as a false witness on numerous occasions -- isn't somebody born yesterday, whatever her birth date was and whatever her actual status in SL as new. The whole reason that I could even ask her if she wanted to sell her first land was because I saw that she had hooked up with a guy that already had 3-4 pieces of land, and was in the process of putting together a large contiguous plot. He later had land for sale which I bought (a fact that came as a surprise to the false witness who thought she had him in harness).

And my customer was in fact pressured by this false witness -- that's where the real pressure was in this story! -- because this false witness, and her friend, were merely trying to put together a large property, built out of very cheaply acquired first-land pieces.


Today, Traxx's sycophant has 5000 m2 for sale in this same area, built out of what they acquired, through a mixture, no doubt, of pressure and opportunism, and strong-arm tactics like literally blocking a person's land from view and sale!.

This false witness was able to be manipulated by Traxx because he was looking for some way to harass me, and saw his opening when he found that I had purchased land nearby and had customers.

I did not swoop down on this false witness. I merely asked her if she wanted to sell her land. I explained the rental system. That she keeps hysterically claiming that I "pressured her," when at no time did she sell any land to me (she only pressured my customer to sell his land) is part and parcel of the Nexcom and Traxx campaign against me, which she has figured out is some kind of thing she can personally get advantage of.

People in my rentals group who have sold me their first land know full well that I have not pressured them, and in some cases have only taken a loss.



Um, Traxx, I know that months and months before you ever talked to your little sycophant and long, long before this Cecropia incident (in Calletta actually), that you were slamming me for my ideas and my plans in the rentals groups, because you find selling real estate and working with newbies "cheap" and "tacky" and "sleazy" -- due to your own very dubious personal prejudices and attitudes about commerce and the kinds of activity that are "legitimate" in this game. So you apparently have been biding your time waiting to discredit me. That you need to spend so much energy and time on this is sick, and you know it.

Once again, a program -- not a scheme -- to provide newbies with cheap rentals of only $250/week in cash, or tier donations of 512 for an equivalent 512 of land -- is help, not harm. Any newbie who has gone through this program, saved money, and gone on to buy their own land can testify to that. And I have such people in my group, and anyone who'd like to hear their testimony is welcome to contact me in game and speak to them. I don't think they need to have their games and privacy interrupted by being paraded through dramas here in the forums, but I submit once again my request to Traxx Hathor and any 3 older and respected players to convene a dispute resolution panel on this matter, bring forward their phony evidence, let it be examined, and determine the true facts of this case. It continues to harm my legitimate business -- the fact that Traxx doesn't name my name here, and I do, is merely proof of my willingness to submit to any and all inspections of any type on this matter to get him to cease his harassment of me in this game.

I don't swarm through new sims looking to pounce on newbies. Some do, and it's a time-consuming and not very lucrative business. I support what they do, because it creates liquidity and opportunity in the land business. Any newbie is smart enough to sell his land at least for $513 and make a profit, if not $4000 -- I've seen quite a few newbies with prime real estate that they've got a program for to separate *me* from *my* $5000 for their overpriced but strategically important land.

So let's not be so "overprotective" of newbies -- in order to put ourselves into power, hmmm Traxx? As fake Mr. Community Builder? Because you know it's all tripe.

I continue to maintain that my rentals program and offer to buy first land isn't "targeting the wrong group" but is a legitimate and helpful service. That Traxx fails to see this is part and parcel not only of his personal baggage in regards to me, but his very, very dubious agenda of a closed, exclusive society for SL.

EXACTLY Ardith. You cannot know what the deal is until you go to the website. Thats true of all these private island deals. Thats why they should be meticulously separated from real land sales, which are absolutely standard, automated with a click, and fully described in the game documentation.

My point is that this offer is misleading, but no more misleading than any other offered in this misleading way.

The list allows "up-front-payment-required" to masquerade as "selling price". If he offers a deal in which "up-front-payment" is indeed $0 (and Splat has told us he does), then he is no more guilty than the others.

The problem is with allowing ANY of these deals into the list. The longer it goes on, the more it becomes LL's fault, for neither intervening nor providing an alternate list, which is needed more badly every day. It is needed so that these new forms of landholding can flourish as they should (separately), without all this criticism.

How can we expect one landowner to excercise restraint, when his competitors do not? It is LL's responsibility.

If you are a private simowner - CLICK - you're in the list, whether its pure rental, or some mixed deal with a recoverable up-front-cost. But you are safe whatever "price" you put, because the purchaser can't click and buy, so you have time for your complicated sales push. Huge advantage over (often smaller) mainland owners. They're not going to pass up the opportunity, are they ?

LL shouldn't put temptation in their way.

I notice that Nexus has removed his offerings. I think he should keep them there as long as Anshe keeps hers. His offering exposes the whole farce for what it is more clearly, because it isn't trying so hard to pretend to be a normal sale. Anybody can see there is something wrong, without needing to think deeply. That helps us pressure the Lindens to get their act together to sort this out.

Alexa, in theory, the newbie could merely rent from Anshe in her program, and keep the first-land purchase for $512 option. That is, they come and rent, or rent-to-buy, or actually buy in the sense of purchasing a deed for long-term access to the land. They pay her tier on PayPal. And yes, when they leave, they can sell to any other person for any price they can get, but under her terms as to accepting her offers and abiding by her rules of conduct. They can also take a cashout, but that will have a service fee given that she's held the tier on the land and kept the land available.

I'm very, very puzzled why everyone is finding Anshe's program and Nexus's program "different". They are exactly the same private islands, and using the exact same tools, and doing the exact same things. Perhaps the wording in their ads is a little different.

Both are using LAND SALES to peddle rentals -- and long-term leases that people may or may not accept as a "purchase".

I should be squawking that I can't get the land list to do this by setting a land to $0 sale for myself. But I'm not squawking. Because I want everyone to have more increased capacity for advertising!!!!! THAT is what is important and THAT is what serves newbies -- by creating more opportunities, pluralism, cheaper prices, and more freedom from ugliness and griefing.

All these FIC members who have upheld the right to build ugly and grief all these years as part of their worldview of fuck-you hedonism are not going to be able to change this for the average person who understands that a little bit more of a rule of law and less anarchy are needed to preserve basic freedoms through linking it to protected private property.

Nexus can put his ad in the list with a $0 sale to self -- and in fact it doesn't cost you anything up front in purchase price because he has rentals.

But he also offers rent-to-buy and buy -- the very thing you're scoring Anshe for now, so please, let's not mount a whole fake picture where Nexus is the "good" user of the $0-sale-as-rental and Anshe is the "bad" use.

The fact remains that the Lindens do not encourage the very rentals and alternative purchase programs they claim to support in player-sponsored residential communities by not opening up this list to advertisements of offers other than outright sales.

The fact remains that the Lindens are aware of this problem and are working on it and accept any and all input from players on how to fix this.

The fact remains that various players with agendas and lots of alts are screaming about this either merely to be drama queens and get attention or to gain power and influence in this game through market manipulation.

WHAT PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND THINKS THEY CAN GET LAND FOR $0???

If you're going to answer "vulnerable newbies that we must protect from ebil land barons" then I'm going to have to answer: one of the way that newbies get less clueless is discovering things like this for themselves: no, you can't right-click on any land in this game and buy it for $0 -- unless someone has made a mistake, in which case the proper thing to do would be to give it back to them.

I know that taking the side of Anshe and Nexus in their quest to get sales through workaround use of the land sales list -- a workaround I myself can't get advantage of! to help their business which is in direct competition to mine! -- only gets me more crap from the likes of Traxx from the anti-commerce allergenic FIC crowd who think land should be free or available in large quantities only with Linden subsidies or as close utopian socialist Randian ranches.

I think not every newbie wants to live on a Randian ranch, so I invite them to come rent from me, or go rent from Anshe, Nexus, Wendy LeMay, Hiro Queso and the other players who provide this very necessary service to SL.

Why not just remove your fraudulant ad from the land sales tab?

Why should he? Others are profiting right now from doing the exact same thing, just at a more believable price, and so better concealed. They are ignoring calls for restraint, even targetting newbies.

We need this farce exposed, and the $0 offering exposes it nicely. More people notice something is wrong here, as your posting shows. Make LL act more quickly I hope.

Edit: Oh whoops - its you, Eboni. Posting shows no such thing. You am totally on the ball from the start. Sorry.

Um, could we come forward, please, with documented cases of actual, authentic defrauded newbies?

And...they were defrauded..how?

By thinking they could get something for nothing?

Right-clicking, and discovering they couldn't?

Sounds like they got a lesson in maturity, not a fraud.

I'm sure by now some of you are finding my postings tedious and repetitive. Because they are, and I am a bit sick of them too. But I genuinely feel it is my duty, on behalf of the vulnerable, to keep on hammering at this as long as new people discover the topic, and until LL does something about what I consider to be a serious abuse.

I heartily recommend the ignore list. Why not put me on ignore until this tedious issue is resolved ? It's just so peaceful. I love it. You only see a single-line saying that someone has posted, you feel faintly sick because you can imagine whats in there, but then you smile with relief that your eye needn't encounter all the horrid stuff.

Beautiful. So if you're beginning to feel that way about me (and I quite understand), just do it. I'd do it myself if I could

I wonder how you would feel if this was a scripted object or a mansion or an animation.

Ok guys, just thought I should warn you I've done it again. someone here asked about Newbies rights with these "starter packages", and I got to thinking about the other benefits they might be in danger of missing out on.

Being me, I just posted a new thread expressing my concerns.

Here is the url, in case you wanna avoid some more of my exaggerated worrying about other Newbie vulnerability. If that's how you see it, lol.
/130/5f/45376/1.html#post481389

Prokofy Neva is male.


That was in reference to the bitter old hag handbook.

rofl

Edit: No, literally, nearly fell on the floor. With my eyes looking JUST like that.

I am aware of someone else who buys islands and rents them out. He does this without resorting to the trickery employed by others of listing them in the land for sale tab.

His first was fully rented out within 24 hours of it being made available and he has now purchased more islands for the same purpose. Now if he can do this, why do others have to resort to falsely advertising theirs as land for sale?

Whatever way you look at it, it is not honest.

Alexa

Damn! Are those typical results? Sim subleasing seems enticing.

I've been really interested in it. When Anshe released her desert sim, I was highly intrigued. For a long time, I had dreamt of a privately owned continent to the east of SL, consisting of roughly 30 or 40 sims with interesting, user-made topology. Unfortunately, I wasn't financially able to realize that dream. In the end, the only thing to show for the dream are a couple of height maps and crude sketches.

As it is, I view it as an opportunity for the community to grow. Whereas the Lindens add new terrain and new environments very slowly, private sims are much more conducive to experimentation and innovation. However, I think that it will become less profitable as time goes on and more sim lords and ladies pop up.

Actually, they got both. You keep arguing that it's not fraud. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the law. You don't need a weeping victim for something to be fraudulent.

Erm.. no, because its not ?

Just because we cannot totaly transfer ownership of a plot does not mean we cannot sell it with a few draw backs, And in most cases people loves these draw backs. (Im refering to the zoned themes)


Anr there any questions that are not allready explained in other posts ?

Yeah, if you can get the land for 0$ and just have to pay tier, it doesn't seem like a fraud to me.

However, I think LL is a little worried about people thinking that you're buying from them.

I can understand why they would, but if you have looked at any of the sims in this project you can easily see the signs and rental stations and you (hopfully) understand that that the sim is an estate sim and the drawbacks that come with that.

Blaze, has Robin or any other Linden changed their mind from what was posted in your thread here:
/invalid_link.html

I havent seen that thread til today. Seems crystal clear what LL is telling us: These are rentals and please dont use the land sales list for advertising them.

The problem with that Wilde, and this is coming from a player that has only been here since March 05.. I find the Lindens change their mind quite regularly and do not even seem to know what one Linden to the next is thinking.

Like Robin seems to be on this path to get the estate sims out of the land sell tab, which I agree, but does not seem to be concerned with, and I am guessing, probably their biggest customer who know has I believe 14 sims. This to me seems to be very anti-business and will raise flags with other parts of LL. Regardless of what the players may or may not wish, you can not ignore someone that does that kind of business with them when they are trying to grow.

They need to impliment a better system and role that out at the sametime they take it out of the land sales tab. Anshe is just one sim owner, the largest to my knowledge.. but not the only one I seen using the land sales tab recently. What happens when Robin pushes this thru, gets it removed and then all of the sudden LL gets 20 calls from big customers who own 20 or more Sims demanding action to be taken?

It becomes a mess. I am completley behind removing them. I also intelligent enough to realize they better have a solution at the sametime.