My little rant....

Um, where did I speak any "trash" about clubs?

I used to run a club.

I rent to clubs.

What is your problem, Sox?

Try to illustrate what you are talking about.

I'm the one who has criticized the anti-club mentality rampant in the game.

I have abuse reported your post.
Please do not use my real world photo anymore.
I have contacted the CIA.

Can't be you, Schwans..where's the sheep?

Oh noes! Please sir! I did not realize that this Grizzly Adams growler was you! I beg your forgiveness. Please do not dispatch Ben to maul me to death!

haha! Ardith! You made me spew margaritta up my nose!!

Oh, and for the record, you find me at clubs or live DJ events *most* nights that I'm in world. I also own a shop, and was at one time the events coordinator for a very nice mall. Never played tringo, though I loved the Yatzee games and I'm currently addicted to Freya's Primtionary game.

I think your ideas are mostly theories and opinions. Because I bet you have never been in the entertainment (or "hospitality," as it was put earlier on this thread) business.

Another thing that bothers me is you state facts as if they were BAD.

Yes, everyone enjoys getting something for nothing. So what?

And in this game, where people can't simply go to work - but pretty much have to be either skilled builders, scripters, land dealers, or hookers to make a living - a huge number of people REALLY enjoy getting something for nothing, since it is the only way they CAN get something.

The pro-entertainment majority really in this game really doesn't have much way to earn money in the game (although they can always go to GOM and give the physical content producers rl money so they can then go in-game and give them Linden money for the goods they want).

Your idea that the only reasons people don't charge for entrance to clubs and other entertainment services are (a) people's attitude sucks - they just refuse to pay for things they can get for free (well, like, no DUH), or (b) the quality of the entertainment just isn't good enough, just don't cut it.

Both these things may have something to do with real world entertainment, but they don't have a THING to do with entertainment within online entertainment.

You might not may not LIKE that about entertainment within a virtual game - but like I've said before, hey, virtual clubs can't charge for drinks and virtual movies can't make their profit through popcorn sales.

The fact is, the game supports creation of physical content, and doesn't support creation of non-physical content.

(Although I personally would rather this situation went on forever than that they ever, EVER do anything so insane and learning-inhibiting as to charge for the rezzing of prims again.)

You can keep on and keep on about how none of this is the way you think it should be, but all of this is the way it is, in this and in any other game the purports to be a "real life" sort of game. In all of them, there has to be financial incentive for providing more content than simply the physical content.

The situation as it is now, however - what with that little round-trip to GOM and back to the people who put their profits on GOM to buy the products that will help the same people put their profits back on GOM, etc. - is obviously one in which there is no support in-game for providing anything but physical content, and what support there was is no longer.

This isn't a good situation. This is an imbalance.

I know about the costs of being a physical content creator, because I AM one (albeit a beginning, unknown, and decidedly non-rich one). Because anybody with half a brain can easily see that it is the ONLY way to go with this game. The way it's set up, anything else is almost guaranteed to be a losing proposition.

That needs fixing.


The events system is not "broken" simply because it features events you personally don't care for and consider wastes of eyeball space.

Well, maybe I LIKE Bingo. Maybe I come on the game just for the fun of playing Bingo! Maybe people LOVE Tringo. That they do - and that this is reflected in the events calendar - doesn't mean the events system is broken in any sense. You may really mean that people's personal preferences are broken, because they don't reflect your idea of what you like and/or what you think others should like.

A truly vibrant and exciting events system is filled with so many possibilities practically anybody can find something they like. And spare me any complaints about the damage done to your eyeballs by having to view for a nanosecond the name of an event which isn't your personal favorite.

The entire problem can be solved - and will eventually be solved - by categories of events, and you will never, ever have to have your eyeballs soiled by viewing the letters "ingo" again in your life - simply by not clicking on that tab.

What's BROKEN is that the ridiculous notion that LIMITING the fun things to do in a game can possibly EVER make a game better.

Here is an example of a good events calendar:

Tringo
Sexy Boobs and Chests Contest
Treasure Hunt!
Free Play Slots for an Hour
Building for Beginners
Captions
Primtionary
Black and Silver Ball
Fashion Show at Fashion Mall
Show-and-Tell
Bingo
Tringo
MSFT2000
Sexiest AV Contest!
Horror Night at the Movies
Furry Full Moon Ball
Slingo
Sports Trivia and Free Beer at the Sports Bar and Grill
Basics to Texturing 101
Jeopardy!
Grand Opening Pussy Galore Hot Club!
Thinkers: "Virtual Trade in the 21st Century"
Grand Opening - Seaside Mall! Free Pose Balls!
Slingo
The Price is Right! Win cash and prizes!
Nude Night at the Beach
Book Club Discussion: Ya-Ya, Part 2
80's Trivia
Newbie Welcome Hour
Tringo
Giant Snail Race
Yard Sale! Everything Half Price!
Boardman Tour of Homes - Meet the Residents!
Subs Meet and Greet
Current Events Trivia
Slingo
Tringo
Tringo
Bingo
All-Night Tringo
RL/SL Boozing with Lordfly and Pals!
Fundraiser for the American Cancer Society
Stock Car Races - Race for the Big Prize!
Dog Races and Trivia
Crafts Lovers Club
Blackjack
Slingo
Talent Show and Open Mike Night at Club Hullabaloo
Touchstone Fun and Education Fair
Fight Night at Club Killya
You Too Can Learn to Script
Overland Express Estates Lottery Drawing
Art Exhibit at the WillowRun Museum
Best Couple in Drag Contest - Cash Prizes!
Tringo
Miss SL Beauty Contest Finals
Hottest Bootay Contest at the Diva Club
Singles Mixer at the Upriver Club
Tringo
Bingo
Slingo
Freebies for All - Come trade yours!
We Roast Pandastrong! Slideshow Included!
Theme Bingo: Beach Blanket Bingo!
Poker
Libertarian Discussion Group
Giant Tic-Tac-Toe! Prizes Awarded

etc.

Around the clock.

See? Something for everyone.

Anything and everything that helps us to have an events calendar with diverse choices like that is good.

coco

Cocoa, I'm laughing so hard, tears are actually coming to my eyes.

You've done an excellent job of refuting Lordfly's theories, and provided a concrete example of the actual list we might come to expect if we sort on ALL.

There remains only to determine what this event will categorize as:

We Roast Pandastrong! Slideshow Included!

Game? Contest?Arts? Education? It could be all of the above LOL.

What's clear is that Lordfly willl still have to "soil his eyeballs" as you so aptly put it ROFL unless he comes up with a filter that ONLY contains the following event:

RL/SL Boozing with Lordfly and Pals!

Don’t hide an insult in a rhetorical question, or package a vituperative repost in an alleged generic statement that everyone can see is targeted at one person.

Try to offer a reasonable and rational counter-argument to an argument you see, rather than ridiculing, denouncing, picking apart, twisting, etc. someone’s sentences.

Ok well now I own a club to. Or could be said to have a club. I'll bet most of you have never heard of it either.

There is a BIG difference to owning or having a club and actually running a club pretty much 24/7 which is what it takes around here to compete.

Throwing a 2-3 events a week for your buddies or just for fun at your club is not even in the same LEAGUE.

So yeah its easy to say you dislike clubbing when you own a club but are not in the business of running a club. I'm not placated by the fact those who disparaged clubs and clubbing own clubs of their own. Those are spaces set aside in which they hold events on occasion.

Big difference.

Oh and I'll send 50L each to the first 3 ppl to IM me inworld with the name of my "club". Or to the first person to count and post how many times I said club in this post.
toodles!

Thirteen, counting the "clubbings!"

tyvm I need the $50.

coco

P.S. I thought of two other good events after I went to bed:

The Jerry Springer Show - Jer-RY! Jer-RY!
Beauty Makeover: $50 to Get a New You!

I even figured out how that last one could be done.

I'm english so forgive me for this - no insult intended its just an analogy.

You know the mentality that exists in American high schools where your either 'cool' or your a 'geek'?

Well it exists in Second Life to, in particular on these forums.

Those people who listed 'hating clubs' did it because they have a desperate need to run with the 'cool' set, and nothing more.Dont you find the fact that one of them actually OWNS a club laughable? that this persons ENTIRE business is geared on making clothes for the very same people she defames as geeks for clubbing?

If next week it becomes 'cool' to wear orange thongs on your head and shout WIBBLE everytime you see someone with a parrot - these people will be doing it.

Now all this would be ok except for the fact that its these people Linden Labs choose to hold up as exemplary residents.

Do what YOU want to do, and if your doing it, and your having fun, and not causing anyone else any grief then your doing the right thing for YOU.

Wibble

Forgive me, but I'm not seeing any of this elitism that keeps getting referred to. Many people dislike clubbing, so they don't club. That doesn't mean or even imply that they think less of the people who do.

There is some resentment of the lag and "noise" surrounding popular clubs (as well as malls and other attractions), but to extrapolate that into an active movement to banish clubs from the landscape requires a degree of paranoia that I am unable to approximate.

But then, in the modern American context, I should be used to any sort of difference of opinion being demonized as "elitism" and indifference being interpreted as hatred.

Well, it's safe to say you are talking about me (correct me if i'm wrong). I don't feel like there is a way to defend myself. People who have never chatted with me are describing how I feel about clubbers, and that's hard to fend off. If you would like to IM me in world and get my actual opinions on these matters please please do.

But my opinion stands.
-No...I don't tend to go to dance clubs cause there are other activities I would rather be doing. I like building, and making clothes, and seeing other people's builds, and talking to all different kinds of people in SL.

-No...I did not "defame as geeks for clubbing" ANYBODY. From the phrase "dislikes dance clubs" you are trying to paint a picture of my opinion about clubbers, and the picture isn't true. While you will not find ONE POST in the forums where I disparage clubbers, you will find posts where I condemn hatred of clubbers, blingers, furries, and other groups and compare it to RL prejudice. Please, if you are actually interested in my views on clubbing, come talk to me in world! Otherwise, I can't really stop you from making up ANYTHING about my opinions.

-Yes...I have a club. I don't make a dime off it. I don't hold events there but Trinity and Nala occasionally do. I don't own land so I don't earn dwell. I do not have any *PREEN* advertisements in this club, so it does not serve me in any monetary way. I basically built it because I know people like clubs and I thought it would be a nice thing to have.

I have also built a coffee shop despite NOT being a coffee drinker.

*gasp* someone did something out of love and not for money? well I never! hehe yeah, there are better things than making a few dollars in SL!

I don't enjoy clubs. If you want to dismiss me as some bubble-head, sl social climber based on my dislikes and my interests, be my guest. But you'd be dead wrong about me.

I enjoy making things. I dislike the lag many clubs cause, I dislike socializing with people at clubs because often I don't feel very chatty when I'm in world, I dislike parking my AV with a bunch of others and watching it dance because that bores me to tears.

Just to be picky...

IMO its a bit of a stretch to call 63% a "slim majority" also.

51%, or even 55% is a "slim" majority, 63% is a pretty firm one. So you are doing a teensy bit of the same kind of emotional framing of numbers that she did.

That being said I think Alice makes an intelligent point, and to all those who are slowly turning this thread into (yet another) "Prok attack"...

well I dont have an answer for that I guess.

Just that its reeeely noticeable.

Wow! you got all of that from

"Dislikes: Dance clubs, griefing and sex balls"

I'm curious, how do you interpret the last line...? undoubtedly she must hate anyone who has ever had, or is having sex now !

I guess Some of the people who answered the survey aren't entitled to an opinion.. interesting.

hmmm, 4 out of 8 would be 50% half of people like clubs, half don't like clubs.

random chance could say 5 out of 8 don't like clubs... 8 just isn't a big enough sample to form an oppinion from.

So we have clubbers vs. non-clubbers. . .o.k., well, if the non-clubbers don't like clubbing, they don't have to go; if the clubbers like clubbing, they are welcome to go anytime they like. What's the problem? No one is forcing anyone to go anywhere or do anything - it's a free world, and there are plenty of alternatives for everyone.

Live & let live!

-Echi

Wow I'm amazed at how you came up with such an accurate psychological evaluation of all of us based on the phrase: "Dislikes: Clubs"

You are truly an insightful individual. It must be because you're English.

I've seen several debates that discuss the relationship between economy and events, economy and parcels, so on. The problem with SL is not necessarily with network power or terrabytes (as so commonly suggested). The problem does not involve a technical fix in the debugging sense. The Lindens presented the economic system as one that mirrors storage capacity. If that were true, server space would increase as consumer activity increases. The problem arises when traffic awards and other non-real world affecting pay-outs are made. On the internet, traffic awards come in the form of advertisement spreads (though this occurs pro bono, traffic dictating return business), but this isn't possible since the real-world is in no way reflected in SL-- returns are not as impressive on such a small scale. Right now, the Linden's are very courageously fighting the need to provide value in their service (via traffic awards and other non-space related pay-outs) while maintaining a rapidly increasing network. Take away the things that adversely effect your storage capacities and all networking problems disappear, but then it is a question of how the community will respond. The Lindens need economic consultants, not computer engineers or network administrators. My two cents.

I concure Spoogie!

I like sex balls. Avi Porn rocks!

Oh and I like clubs. Don't care much for tringo, slingo, bingo or poker.

I love baseball enough to wear the very cool jersy aimee made, even though its a damned YANKEE'S Jersey. SL would be better of they could script a baseball game.

I like coffee shops even though i don;t know where Aimee's is.

I like flirting with ingreid cause she gets that its flirting and not me hitting on her.

I like Dione cause she makes me smile.

This list could go on and on. My point being (see I do get there eventually) is that none of should be juged by a very narrow experience like a forum post or a profile. Very often these things , especially profiles are "of the moment" and many many important things get lost. A person is like a book, you don't really enjoy them until about chapter 10.

As far as all this stuff about the girl on the right, well the last thing I would think to accuse Aimee of is hypocrisy. There is a reasona Aime is one of the "Cool Kids" on SL, and that's because damn, shes cool. She has talent, ability and well vision. *PREEN* is one of the things that drew me into SL, and I'm a guy. BUt I liked the way she expressed a vision of her product. I feel hook line and sinker for some damned good lifestyle advertising.

But see in my expereince of her, both briefly in world and reading her posts on these forums Aimee is cool enough not to know or care if she is cool. Yes, if there is and FIC Aimee is most certainly in it, I just don't imagine she knows or cares.

Just because people are recognized for thier talent and ability to contribute to SL does not mean they are snobs or elitist. They may not like clubbing. They may hate slingo. But they were selected I imagine based on what they do for SL and not based on what they dislike.

As it happens I would have liked to have seen a club baron, or a land baron included among the profiles. Just for diversity. But really if you explore the site you will find unexpected suprises like Katykiwi Moonflower there. She is a wonderful person and really is a good example of a reasonable person in SL. We may disagree about certain people in the forums, but I was pleased to see the spotlight on someone who is low key.

heheh inflation is awesome..just had to put my two bucks worth in.

I'm just going to quote this because Jake said it well.

Everyone needs to understand that the profiles were filled out via email. So I'm sitting there filling out the blanks and I got to dislikes... "Well let's see... I don't go to clubs because they're usually too laggy for me to enjoy... I'll write clubs."

Fast forward to now, and people are acting like I slapped their mother because I casually mentioned that I dislike clubs.

I don't HATE clubs. I don't HATE people who like clubs. I just dislike going to clubs in general because of LAG.

There was no great conspiracy here. Really.