Telehub Land Values

Deceived, Shaun ? DECEIVED ?

Has it escaped your attention that LL didn't plan this, or probably even want it ? That they are providing it as an attempt to empower the masses, responding to a big vote in its favor?

If anyone is to compensate the landowners, the burden should fall wholly on those who voted for the proposal. Or failing that, on those who use the service.

Personally I am against any compensation simply because it would be impossible to reach every one who is losing, or to balance and calculate payments fairly. And for the unsupportable precedent it would set for the future.

But if compensation there is to be, it should not be via dwell. That is ridiculous. It should be via a direct payment, funded by a tax on the actual teleporting which caused it all. Calculate the funds required. Impose the tax until the budget is met, then terminate it. Everybody knows what they are paying and why, and broadly to whom.

Best not though.

I agree, Magnum should pay us.

Strange ethics, that neglect intention. There is no evidence that LL ever intended to do this as the telehub land was being sold. They have given in to pressure from voting residents. The decision was quite likely only made in the last few weeks.

So there cannot have been, at the time, any intention such as you imply. The Altman book of ethics looks like a pretty odd volume to me, ignoring the intention at the time of the alleged act.

The responsibility for this decision lies with the voters. Or should LL have ignored them ?
(actually I think so, but for different reasons)

Yes, and this also makes one wonder how "desirable" land will be re-defined, how land owners will compensate for loss of telehub rental/sale income, and just what the next big thing will be as far as making owning land a profitable and desirable thing in SL.

People who stay and thrive in SL are incredibly competent and creative I've noticed. Land owners among the most creative, I'm very curious to see how P2P will change their advertising, marketing and sales.

What intentions ??? Please stay within the known facts. This decision is recent. Resident initiated. In a vote. Your statement about intentions, and thus your fingerpointing about ethics, is fantasy, Shaun. Just fantasy.

You find buying up land around hubs to be creative? Wow come on thats not creative.

They are trying to demonstrate willingness to listen, Blaze. Bowing to the majority. Nothing sinister. Silly, perhaps, but not sinister.

Yes, but it is creative to say the land has more value and rent to people there with that "understanding". In my 6 or 7 months in SL I've only shopped at telehubs twice. I'm The CHUCK NORRIS of shoppers, but I've only shopped at telehubs twice, and once before I even understood there was land OTHER THAN telehub land It's creative for land owners to convince people telehub land has more value than other land.

Convince people, Sansarya ? No-one ever had to do or say anything to convince me. I quite quickly spotted the difference betwen teleporting straight to a store's front door, and having to dodge my way towards a distant red pillar for five minutes. I want to keep the dodging. I'm convinced that sooner or later all the slow rezing will be gone, and the world will appear more instantly as it should. But I did actually notice the need for the dodging, all by myself.

Well, I understand what Sansarya is saying. Not so much convincing as it was just accepting though, like you said.

Personally, I never felt that telehub was enough incentive for me to stop where I was going, and browse around there instead. It was annoying to traverse laggy sims and dodge invisable towers to get where I wanted to go, and I'm very glad that they plan on fixing that.

So basically, we should remain all stiff and serious because you think we should?

Kris, FWIW, I think it was funny and it didn't hurt the discussion at all. I can't believe you got ARed for those other comments, though.

On topic:

AFAIK, LL made no claims that telehub land was more valuable or would stay that way forever. Further, they did not set the prices for said land, buyers and sellers did.

People can call it whatever they want, but there is no fraud or bait and switch here. Any losses incurred by residents is the fault of said residents.

LL stepping up with some compensation to ease the transition is a GIFT. They didn't have to do it, but they are.

Well, I like the idea of point to point teleportation from a convenience stand point. The chance to profit big with the market disruption is going to be amazing. Some land crashing in price, while other land rises in price by making popular places and seclusion more important to land buyers. Will be great for me. The people I worry about are actually the general population. The people that own small peices of property that they use as an escape from the more commercial areas. Commercial areas are going to spread out much more now without the draw of telehub land whether it was an illusion or not. The already fast changing world is going to go through a state of change as people flee the telehub land that eventually will just be a crowded over populated commercial area into the more secluded natural and residential areas. I think zoning would help with this, but the anarchist will soon rise up against me for mentioning that.

I agree with this pretty much 100%.

However, I think an addendum is appropiate - try to seek out ideas that are compatible with LL's strategic goals.

If you can plot the path of the elephant, you're a lot less likely to be trampled.

So far, not to gloat, but I feel I have been 90% right on exactly where they'd go - unfortunately.

Well, I'm not saying sinister. But why don't they migrate? Why do it all at once? Can't they just add more and more p2p capability? Why such a dramatic move?

from what i understand it is specifically 2 irritate u. the lindens r amused by ur forum ravings.

Guess it all depends on which store you're aiming at. Do I want to shop at "anonymous shoddily made clothing kiosk" or do I want to go to Nyte n' Day/ETD which was, before today, located approximately 400 meters from Waterhead telehub?

Most of the places I've shopped do not have their front doors right at a telehub unless they actually own the sim (no offense to those who do, just making my point here. And Jonquille, you're exempt from this because one of your stores is right at Garrison telehub, and I have shopped in that store). There is always a red beacon to get to the specific place you're going to unless you are willing to settle for whatever happens to be at a telehub. Maybe you get lucky and the store is right there at the telehub. More often it is not, but you still have to deal with the lag, the bumping from other teleporting avis, and sometimes altogether crashing at telehubs.

I did think of a downside though, I've met some great friends at telehubs, including my boyfriend Mulch

I don't think its so much of a dramtic move as it is a nice little new feature. Every big update has affected some group in SL in one way or another, be it a big impact or small.

This change will completely redraw the metaverse map.

Maybe they're trying to one up Sharon.

We don't really know yet exactly what they are going to do, do we ? Might not be as drastic as we all fear/hope respectively.

What if, for instance, they limit it to premiums, at least for a month or two. Seems a great strategy to get basics to start subscribing. And telehubs will keep on in business (60% of it perhaps). That would give a step-by-step changeover.

What if you have to visit a place via telehub first, to create your own landmark ?

So many combinations and options available to them, aren't there ? Since they claim to be doing this at our behest, perhaps they won't finalize the details until they've read these discussion threads, and absorbed them.

Could be a full-blown free-to-everyone implementation. Could be a very limited high-cost trickle. Who knows ?

yeah. he cried about when he lost some game money from stipends. now he's laughing when people lose real money from hub land. magnum must pay!

*edit*

Well, this could be extremely beneficial for the competition, when they show up, because people get tired of all the poor planning.

Man, Shaun's post wrapped this section nicely and you go and toss this in.

I like poor planning. It's more exciting.

Shaun's statement was stating the obvious - we all have free will. What else is new?

No, let's get to the interesting bit, what tactics and strategy should a business that wishes to profit the most off of the metaverse employ?

I believe I've summed up a lot of the ideas in this thread:

/130/e3/53386/1.html


Basically, they should form an optional corporation. eBay is probably the best template for them to follow in these regards.

Once upon a time, people had to move around North America by ship, rail or slow, dangerous horse and wagon. As a result, transportation hubs evolved because of their strategic locations in relation to natural resources (fisheries, lumber, coal, etc.) and transport resources (major rivers, good harbors, etc.).

Those hubs became famous cities like New York, Boston, Atlanta, St. Louis, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. People flocked to these transportation hubs for jobs and built homes. But their ability to travel from home to work was limited to early transportation.

Henry Ford made the automobile affordable to the common working stiff. Slowly, the population distribution of the country changed. People could live in the "country" (then 5 or 10 miles from work) and still get there and back reliably in the same day. They became "commuters" and moved out of the city, their places filled by immigrant workers as North America filled up.

Eventually, the suburbs expanded further and further as transportation was made easier by the interstate highway system. Commerce and industry followed its customers, workers and managers out into the suburbs. Towns like Greenwich, Connecticut became commercial centers, no longer just "bedroom" towns housing workers in New York City.

But the city centers suffered as people and business moved out. Blight spread, crime increased, driving more out and depriving the city of the tax base needed for the services to those remaining.

Now think about the explosion of "e-commerce" in the past 5 years. People can now work and shop online, can "tele-commute" and live 100 miles from the "office." They can essentially "teleport" from point to point using the Internet and package delivery or logistics services.

Sound familiar? The effects of going from a "hub and spoke" centralized system to a "point to point" distributed system are both subtle and profound. Some are hurt and some are benefited. Some who saw the effects of the auto on the cities prepared for it and adapted before reaching the "tipping point," but some are still in the cities, adapting and fighting to re-invent them for what they can offer.

The tele-hub malls are like the big department stores in my city that were merchantile palaces in their day. They are now senior housing, community colleges and offices. Or vacant. Yet in the suburbs, we see "magnet" stores and malls attracting to them additional merchantile development around what was 10 years ago raw land in the country 10 miles from the city. Around those expanding malls are restaurants, housing and office buildings, all new construction, all benefiting from the explosion of the center city into the woods surrounding it.

The shift to allow point-to-point transport is likely to have similar effects in SL. The folks who enjoyed quiet country living don't like the mall built across the road where there used to be undeveloped land. But guess what? Their little parcel just got more valuable. Maybe valuable enough for them to sell and add some savings and buy a nice place in a planned, zoned sim that caters to their particular taste in lifestyle. Those who adapt will do OK. Those who cling to the strategy that they thought would be successful under a past age may do less well.

Embrace change. It is the only constant in RL or SL.

Frank