Is it time to End the 10% group tier bonus

Anshe, possibly if all those adjustments you are suggesting were made, it would make it "more fair" and "compensate" for them removing the 10 percent discount -- but you know they're not going to do that. I see what they're likely to do now is knock out the 10 percent discount quick, just like they knocked out stipend ratings or events support, and all they are doing now is using Jauani Wu as a stalking horse to see how painful it will be, and how much howling people might do.

They see Anshe has given a very lukewarm response -- obviously it won't bother her bottom line much with her mainland holdings now that she has islands. And they see others don't care and are staying out of it and hoping it blow away while Prok twists in the breeze as usual. And they see a few group projects leaders like Cubey or eltee might step up to the plate to complain, but maybe they figure they can compensate them some other way. Ulrika moved to an island with her project, so she's free to cackle in glee while mainland owners get whacked hard. It's all very pretty, eh?

People who are not "barons" or landholders, or people who are have diversified businesses are very likely to get into pontification mode and give windy lectures about how the market is risky, and nobody promises you a rose garden, and Linden Labs is not here to help you get rich and blah blah blah.

*Roles eyes*. Um, that shouldn't prevent anybody from seeing manipulative social engineering using sycophantic fanboy tekkies as tiger's paws for just the repulsive thing it is : )

Who knows how they came up with these rules, they are a hodge-podge of RL ideas and MMORPG ideas. Whatever the mix, it must be benefitting them because they keep getting people to play along and buy on the auction and buy inworld and not leave in droves when they glut the land market every now and then to keep barons off balance. That's part of the baron balance, so see if you can stay ahead of the curve on Linden glutting, GOM drops, in-world panic liquidations of individual parcels etc. etc. I dunno, it's not such a fun game though.

Again, I think they need to encourage more civility and civilization in their world by making it easier for people to use group tools without risks and holes where they lose their land, making incentives for people to share tier together, and making it at least not a punishment for someone to own more sims and rent or sell them out. Right now they are constantly wielding punishments -- a whallop with a land glut, a whallop with no access to the land sales list for islands, a whallop with new patches that stop performance for 3 days and lose everyone customers, a whallop with the events list bork, a whallop here a whallop there. I guess they just like to beat their customers into submission. Just when you think they are getting sweeter to you here or there they bite you in the ass by making your sim go down and not come up for a day or refusing to do anything about the bounce script and making you lose customers...and honestly, it's a goddamn BDSM theme park, SL.

I see such attacks -- and this is not the first! -- as about currying favour with Lindens, sucking up to some land barons and others, and demolishing a person you hate, a former friend even. It's the standard nasty SL menu.

The idea about purchasing Linden influence is interesting but the problem is, they are so many of them, they are disorganized, they are hard to "rank," and you could really be wasting your graft dollars there!

Disorganized? There are 435 Representatives in the House, and another 100 Senators in the Senate. There is nothing more disorganized than that!

It could be done!

I agree that it would be very bad if group bonus would just be removed without anything in return. It is like 10% tier fee increase for many. Looking at my bills that would be very substantial amount. So only fair change would be if Linden Lab lowered tier fees a little bit so that in the end they still take same money from us and not more.

and if you are pushed an entire tier level up from it?

10% bonus would bring one sim down to about $175.. and then getting pushed over to the next hald sim tier $90, so instead of $195 for a group with 65536+16sqm, it would be $265

Anshe, your very late, and very lukewarm response to this issue, has been noted.

The question is -- why? You have your land in groups on the mainland. Probably more land than anyone. So why is it in your interests not to get behind this loud and clear?

Whatever your move to the private islands now, and your downsizing on the mainland, you will have significant amounts on the mainland.

So why wouldn't you care about this enough?

Answer:

o Plans to dump mainland land completely, even sustaining losses because of a perception that the land market will bottom out
o Hopes that Jauani's campaign can at least rein in Prok, who is some kind of competition, even if not much of one -- whatever losses might occur to a few other people won't matter as they will just move to private islands which you can sell to them
o Desire to shake loose competition from other very high-tier barons who might have more on mainland and are stuck there because they don't want to take a big loss -- getting them off the 10 percent will be the nail on their coffin
o Desire to end the bashing of yourself and other landbarons for being "greedy" by getting four-square behiind a socialist-inspired campaign that looks like it stops "exploitation of people"
o Desire to appeal to the Lindens and care about their bottom line

I realize you've had to take many hits in this game, Anshe, and this is probably one time when you will not only go along to get along, but benefit.

Linden Lab shouldn't change the allocation policy for the simple reason that the likelihood of it not breaking a half dozen arbitrary attributes of the "world" approaches zero.

I share this opinion. I'm using the tier for my family, my husband and brother play SL. I also get a little uneasy every time I hear someone scream about doing away with something, be careful what you wish for.

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you are right! prok is too smart to think that. but it's quite possible prok thinks her readers are not.

The answer to the question posed by this thread is no. When I get a chance, I will reply in detail why. Not today, though, lol, wanna have fun.

coco

what it comes down to is its a pretty terrible idea to remove a system that lots of people are using, well, to help keep lots of interesting and fun places in SL, just because a couple of other people abuse it

(and a couple of more people who have other agendas to push want it gone)

no i didn't do this. i went to luskwood to buy a fox avatar at ingrid's insistence. duh! get the story straight.

this is ridiculous math. if a main grid land owner wanted 2048 land on top of their sim, they would use one of their alt acccounts (they ones they are using to steal 10% of tier off of the community at large by grouping their land) and get a 15$ tier on it. if someone can use alt accounts to siphone tier savings, they can use alt accoutns to spread their tier payments as well.

i resent these insinuations iridian! let's talk in world... about the benefit of goat milk in daily diet.

i find the best way is to send personal cheques directly to philip's personal accountant. it really greases the wheel.

I think we can come up with something a bit more creative than that.

i can't be bothered to read the the whole thread because it seems prok just keep making the same baseless points again and again and the typical wild assumptions and allegations about peoples motives.

it all boils down to this

people who don't use the group bonus pay a higher USD/m2 for land than group land users. 9% more!

this is not like the regressive tier system. the regressive tier system is already one discount given to players as a bulk discount but also tyo acknowledge that large land owners generally constitute a lower LL support cost/m2 - meaning one player owning one sim generates one customer worth of support issues per sim, whereas 128 512m2 plot owners create 128 times as many support issues per sim.

group bonuses can only work if some use it and some don't. if everyone used it, LL would lose 9% tier payments by all non users which would have to be compensated by raising everyones tier. so in effect in the current condition, non group land land owners are sussidizing group land land owners.

for the record, i never attacked prok, i just disagreed with prok, and prok's belligerence made me consider my musings more carefully and increased my resolve as i connected more dots. the one on the offensive here is prok who is making character attacks and false accusations on peoples motivations. i've repeatedly said prok's rental project is a great service, but prok ignores this because it does not suit her interest of finding someone to pick on in the forum. i feel truly violated and hurt. CRIESSSSS

We don't do this. Arito, Eltee, Liam and I each contribute tier to luskwood. We are not 'alts', nor do we have land-holding alts. We all contribute what we can, with Eltee holding the majority of the land.

I know this may be alien to you, but not everyone is a shyster. We are upfront about what we do, and are not 'gaming' a thing. We are not land brokers. We don't care about dwell.

So no, in our case, this is not 'ridiculous math'. Losing the 10% would cause us to either lose 9000m2, or have to pay an additional $100 a month.

You are accusing us of "stealing 10% tier off the community."

Where is your basis for this?

Your agenda, however, making the mainland sims less viable and making brokered islands 'sweeter deals', definitely has basis.

So your statement that day of 'declaring war' was a 'haha funny joke'?

michi, if you read the previous posts in this regard you will see that the four of you will make a much better savings holding land under one account. this post illustrates the advantage of tier leveraging over tier donation which works for island or grid land, although in grid land you need a degree of trust which the four of you clearly have. i think the example used was at the sim tier, but the advantage works at all tier levels, only that the benefit of leveraging increases as the amount of land being considered increases.

anyway, presently i use the group land bonus for myself and with my friends. as long as it's available, i'd rather be on the advantaged side than the sucker side.

by the way michi, i don't have an agenda. i don't even have a calander. i got tired of buying them since i never used them

i never made that statement on my visit to lusk. i said i would take over lusk and be the king. then someone said there was already a king. so i offered to be a benevolent dictator.

i did post pictures of skewered furry heads to the snapzilla a few days earlier that a friend had left at my house. that was indeed funny stuff!

alas......... my goat has not given in 3 summers!. Good thing my pointing finger is still intact!

All hail the Bald Caesar!

and announcing you were 'declaring war' on us just seemed like the thing to do at the time? i don get it

Not everyone doing group land holdings is doing it with them, themselves, and irene.. quite a number of groups even have actual seperate individuals who all do contribute as part of a collective greater than the sum of its parts..

Possible solution - A group can not contain more than one avatar on the same credit card.

Snag - This may cause problems for rl family groups. What are your thoughts?

I'd say that rl family groups are likely to be using the same credit card.