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New Advice on Land Purchases

Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 09:22
Here is the "land advice" section of a card I have called GETTING STARTED IN SECOND LIFE which I give to new tenants and newbies in general seeking advice about various options.

I haven't included a section about how to deal with the new offerings of private islands as "deeded parcels" but I am considering adding that now.

I've included a lot of details on things that many people take for granted but which are complex the first time. Like the concept of "tier" and how it is separate from, but tied to, land. Or the simple fact -- that eluded at least 3 Live Helpers who tried to help me once -- that if you do not label your land with the name of the sim where it is located, it can't show up in the Land Sales list under that sim name obviously, but will show up as "My Home" or whatever you named it.

EXCERPT


As a new player with a premium account, you have a wondeful privilege to buy a basic 512 parcel of land, suitable for a newbie home or business, for the cost of only $512, but only on land designated as "first land" subsidized by Linden Labs.

You do not have to own land to enjoy Second Life, but it is a great way to start off and have a place of your very own which you will be able to re-sell at a profit to get your first significant amount of game currency without an outside purchase of currency from a third party.

While you can freely buy any land set to sale, you should definitely first acquire your first-land using the $512 purchase privilege that comes automatically in the premium account, because you will always be able to resell it at a profit.

*You can only use this privilege once so shop carefully before you right-click to buy.*

First-land listings are in the "Land Sale" tab at the top of your screen. Make sure that you are finding a land tagged by Linden Labs with the green first land tag, and not the player-sold "$" tagged land that can sometimes still have the words "first land" on it because it was just purchased from a newbie, but be available at a higher price than $512.

Go to "view" and click off "property owners" to see the colors of land:
Red means it is owned by a player or by Governor Linden; purple means it is slated for auction; yellow-brown means it is available for sale. Only newbies with the first-land privilege still available to them will see first-land as available for sale -- older players cannot buy it. Additionally, your own land once you possess it will be bright green; group land in any groups you join will be aqua.

Also in FIND press "LAND FOR SALE" to get the full sales list with filters for your price range, size, etc.

And press on the "MAP" in the lower right-hand corner and the 'LAND FOR SALE' tab to see patches of white where land is available in-world -- click on them to teleport them.

11. What is the best land to buy?

The best land to buy is the one you like, with the look and feel comfortable for living in or setting up a business, but be aware that the fundamental rule of Second Life is:

EVERYTHING CHANGES CONSTANTLY.

Because SL is a world where residents create the content and have a lot of freedom to do so, the world changes constantly. What you see around you today that may look like a clear waterfront or pristine wilderness or awesome view will almost certainly look different when others buy the properties in the coming days. Expect constant change, and you will not become frustrated.

Expect that many other people have different notions than you of what is good building or what is beauty, and you will not get angry. The great thing about the changeability of SL is that it is like the weather; if you don?t like it, you don't have to change it, it will likely change all on its own within 24 hours.

The rule of thumb for virtual estate is like real estate: location, location, location. And just like in RL you want to be near the good schools, in SL you will want to shop with the notion of where Governor Linden land or the telehubs are located.

Land bordered by Governor Linden's protected land (in red, not purple, which is his auctioned land) has a higher value precisely because it does not change. So land bounded by Linden sea, Linden woods Linden railroads, Linden roads, or anything that says it is owned by Governor Linden Maintenance or Protected Land is a good buy. Roads are often a sign that an area will have a commercial value so plan accordingly if you are looking for a house.

Be aware that land that looks like it is on the edge of water, but has a scalloped edge and seems to bounce your avatar as you approach it, maybe simply be the unfinished edge of a sim -- the Lindens are still building it. This is *not* waterfront property and could tomorrow become a parcel in the middle of nowhere surrounded by land.

Land right next to telehubs is considered the most prized in SL because of the high-traffic brought to telehub areas that bring sales to vendors and dwell points, or lot points adding up to extra dollars in your stipend, to event organizers.

Flat, green, mature parcels on waterfront are also considered prizes but first land can almost never be found on them because they are difficult to parcel reasonably.

Land in mature is more valuable than land in PG areas and will sell for a higher price.

Snow is not considered a good buy in SL at this time because it is believed to have oversaturated the market.

Mountainous land can have a very beautiful view but it may prove very difficult to build on without more building skills and a house with stilts.

Look for first land that isn't in the middle of the "postage stamps" of numerous areas of first-land in a square. If you buy in the "postage stamps" you will get a flat lot that's great to build on. But you risk having neighbours who may build something ugly or build something to grief and become unhappy being stuck next to them. These areas turn over very quickly as land dealers snap them up to try to make contiguous parcels.

To set yourself to home to land on your land, go to "world" and "set home to here" at the top of your screen.

Did you forget where you land is? Well go to "World" and "My Land" and it is listed -- you will see its coordinates.

Next time you get there, stand on it and press "world" and "create landmark here" to get a handy landmark to give people for your home or business.

12. How much is first land worth? Should I accept my first offer?

First land can be valued at anywhere from $2/meter to $10 meters depending on whether it is in PG or M, waterfront or mountain, telehub or very far away, etc. It's most likely to be around $3-4 for PG and $5-7 or more for mature.

Land dealers often fly around new land areas looking for newbies to buy land from. You do not have to sell to them but it can be handy to take their calling card to see if you might want to contact them later. They are often willing to buy immediately so you can make a fast sale and move out of what you may see by now is going to become first-land hell, surrounded by loads of other people with hardly any room to build or see anything, with your view likely obstructed.

Many people caution you to be afraid of land speculators. Most land dealer, however, are honest and helpful because they want to keep good customer relations for the long term. Keep in mind that you are in control and you can decide at any time to sell your land at any price you wish to fix on it, now or later. No one but Governor Linden can take your land away from you if your account is paid for, if you do not want to sell it.

Take the time to compare prices in your area, study the land sale list by alphabetizing it at the top, putting it on "all" and seeing what all prices of land are selling for in your sim per square meter.

Don't accept any offer that involves you taking cash, but first setting your land to sale for $0 or involves giving anyone your account password any other RL information.

13. How do I sell my land?

Right click on your land, go to "about land" and look for the "sale" option. Be sure never to click this off until you FIRST go and establish a price because if it is at $0 and you click it off, someone using a land scanner to detect $0 and low-priced sales can immediately snap it up and you will likely be unable to get it back.

After determining the price-per-meter, calculate your price and type it in the box. Then check off "sale" on "about land" menu.

To have your land show up in the Land Sale list, you *do not* have to have the "find places" option clicked off on the tab for "options"; indeed, that only causes you to have to pay $30/week and only makes the land display in Find Places which is used more for entertainment and busineses -- land sale doesn't require the fee.

Instead, make sure that you type the name of your sim in the description box, i.e. "Columbia". Then a common practice is to put "M" or "PG" next to the sim name, and then designate the type, i.e. "Waterfront" "Waterview" "Mountainview" "Flat Green" etc.

In the description box, you can type a line that helps to sell your land, i.e. "Bounded by Linden land, flat for building, great views," etc.

Search the "Land Sale" list to make sure your land is showing up right with the name of the sim in the description first. You can also try things like using the word "Waterfront" first or "Great Deal" first but it is less likely to be found that way.

Most sales occur by name of sim. And the people paying the highest prices are those right in your sim who want more land in that sim. So advertise to them by naming your sim in your land description.

When you have completed your description, get a photo of the land and put that in "options". Make one photo as a "texture" upload and another to saved on your hard drive to put on the "classifieds" section of www.secondlife.com Many sales come through this use of the "Land for Sale" on the classifieds. Use your game log-in and password to join the SL forums.

14. Should I just put a high price on it and leave it? Maybe someone will click it?

A common newbie mistake is to put "$10000" on a land or more in the mistaken belief that someone will click on it. Nobody will. Other newbies who might be stupid enough to click and pay for a 512 will not have that much money. And anyone with that much money will be able to shop more effectively. Don't hope for somebody to be that stupid; you yourself would not enjoy making that kind of stupid mistake.

When you put too high a price on land, it sits there, and can even invite suspicions that you are using the high price to grief, especially with a tall build on it. And the people you affect most with that message are your neighbours -- who are you most likely customers!

Many first-landers find they can sell their land to other first-landers who want to stay in the area and extend to a 1024 or 1536. So think of them first, talk to them, and you may make a friend instead of an enemy in your early days.

15. What is tier?

Tier, which is a word for "level," is a maintenance fee or rent which you must pay to Linden Labs *in addition to* the purchase price of land. Go to www.secondlife.com and click on "my account" and "land fees" to see the schedule, or tier of fees.

Premium accounts have a free 512 of tier, and the privilege to buy $512 of first-land on a one time basis only; it is used up after the first sale. The free allocation of 512 tier remains in your account, and can be held free, or applied to land, and moved from one land to another, and used to contribute to a group, or used toward a purchase when you "tier up" to a higher level.

Tier can be complicated to understand unless you realize that tier and land are separate. You cannot buy land without tier. But you can have a tier allocation available, and have no land to which it is applied -- yet. This will show up in your account on the SL web page as land "available for purchase". You must have paid for the tier level to Linden Labs on the web page before you can buy the equivalent amount of land in the world -- the game will prompt you through these menus when you attempt to buy land, and force you to tier up if you have not done so in advance.

If you right-click and buy land above your tier level, your money will be taken, but you will not gain access to the land, and instead will be prompted to go to the SL web page to tier up to the level you wish to cover the purchase. This means you will have to have more money available on your credit or debit card. If you can't cover the land you just bought, you will lose the land and the money you paid for it after a certain time limit, i.e. 7 days. So check your tier level carefully.

You are always charged for the highest amount of land you've possessed, even if it is only $1L over the last tier level. So be careful not to accidentally put yourself up in a higher tier level than you want to be.

Note: when the Linden Lab says $5 for 1024, that doesn?t mean it will be another $5 for another 1024. The ladder of tier fees has some big jumps in it so study it carefully before buying land you may not be able to pay for. 2048 is going to be $15, then, not $10, and so on.

The tier level of 1024 includes within it the free 512 you receive in the premium account, meaning your payment of $9.95 for the premium account plus $5 for tier gives you 1536 of tier to access that much land in the game.

The tier level of 4096 is actually then 4704 because the free 512 is added, not included, in the tier level. And so forth up the ladder.

Tier is moveable around the game. You can apply 512 of your tier to a 512 piece of land, then it is tied up. But if you want to move, you sell that parcel, your 512 tier is freed up, and now you can go apply it to another piece of 512 land, or tier up to 1024 for 5, in which case you now can get 1536, perhaps 1024 on your home, and 512 on your shop somewhere else.

15. What is tier donation to a group to cover group land?

If your tier is not tied to land after the sale of first land, or you have some tier left over after paying for tier at a certain level, you may wish to donate it to a group.

Do not donate tier if you have not used your 512 first-land purchase privilege because that will use up that privilege and it cannot be repeated -- donation to a land group is participation in that group's tier coverage to own land and is considered the same as a regular land purchase.

Instead, shop for first land, sell it, then consider donating tier to a group.

We offer rentals at Ravenglass Rentals for equivalent of tier donation, i.e. 512 tier for 512 land, 1024 land for 1024 land, etc.

If you want to donate tier in lieu of cash rent, contact the officers to get a step-by-step instruction.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
05-09-2005 09:53
From: someone
I've included a lot of details


Hehe... if there's one thing you're good at, its providing a lot of details. :D

Good stuff!

I might suggest boiling it down though. As a newbie, I dont think I'd wade through it the length that it is... and that's just points 10(ish) through 15.

I'd like to read your whole newbie FAQ.

-Ghoti
_____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 10:06
Yes, it's long, but it provides everything I'm asked about constantly, so I just hand it out. If they don't want to read it, they don't have to, they can skim it, they can read it at their leisure.

Often reading the old advice, they are left wanting, so I say, "read the new advice".

It contains everything I know about the subject, which I found out the hard way, from trial and error and personal experience. Take it or leave it. If someone wants to go to the trouble of boiling it down, who could stop them? My long version answers every single question I get in-world though, not fake hypotheticals.

I'll send you the card next time I log on.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
05-09-2005 10:19
From: Ghoti Nyak
Hehe... if there's one thing you're good at, its providing a lot of details. :D

Good stuff!

I might suggest boiling it down though. As a newbie, I dont think I'd wade through it the length that it is... and that's just points 10(ish) through 15.

I'd like to read your whole newbie FAQ.

-Ghoti

I doubt if you will live long enough to read it all :)

~is so much happer in the forums having someone on Ignore~
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 10:22
Hehehe, it's no longer than Kex Godel's, and has more useful information for more normal people.

If this card I just posted had the name "Schwanson Schlegel" on it you'd be clapping and asking the Lindens to pass it out LOL.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
05-09-2005 10:23
From: Prokofy Neva
I'll send you the card next time I log on.


Thanks! I look forward to reading it.

-Ghoti
_____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
05-09-2005 13:25
Interesting information. And no... making a huge post isn't a problem.

If you're genuinely interested in upping your readership, Prokofy - I do have some suggestions.

1) Summarize

A little blurb or summary of your post up at the top can go a long way. I see that in the first post here, but this is a general thing.

2) Text Formatting

Use bold, italics, underline, color, etc to better distinguish points.

3) Breath

Use empty space to better separate points.

-----

I've never found "WORDS WORDS WORDS" to be a problem with posts. However, I do have trouble reading what you post, simply because the formatting makes it seem huge and unnecessary.

Here's an example of what I'm getting at. Best viewed with Attached Images disabled, since the "visual aid" skews things a bit.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 14:44
From: someone
1) Summarize

A little blurb or summary of your post up at the top can go a long way. I see that in the first post here, but this is a general thing.

2) Text Formatting

Use bold, italics, underline, color, etc to better distinguish points.

3) Breath

Use empty space to better separate points.


Um, thanks. I did go to college, and surprisingly, I did learn how to read, write, and even format essays!

The problem with all your helpful ideas is that *they are not possible to do on an in-game notecard*.

After all, we're not here to show off on the forums, hmm? We're just trying to make a notecard.

I've solved the problem of all that scrolling and all that text, and the absence of bold and italics on the in-game notecards, by taking each section, putting in on a notecard, naming that notecard, and then pasting that into *another* notecard. Makes a kind of table of contents with a kind of "hyperlink".

In posting, I just cut and paste the whole thing.

I'm glad you don't think words are the problem, and that formatting and make them help the eye (especially for hampered Internet reading) is what's required.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
05-09-2005 15:54
Not trying to be condescending, Prok. I considered writing that as a PM, as well.

It just happens to be my $0.02. As for notecard formatting, yes - that's exactly the way to do it. :)
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
05-09-2005 17:40
Dear Ms. Neva,
I have no idea what you wrote but you, I have no doubt that is is more solipsistic, megalomaniacal, psuedo-intellectual, verbose, self-serving, incomprehensible vitriol.

Cordially,
Malachi Petunia
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
05-09-2005 17:48
Well, Malachi I must say you really out did yourself this time.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Buster Peel
Spat the dummy.
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,242
05-09-2005 18:02
I like the other one better, it is much simpler and easier to understand.

Most SL noobs are not studying for a degree in SL economics. They're spending some of their precious leisure time. They want to have "fun".

(Refersher course: "fun" is defined differently for each person. For most people, that does not include work, study, doing calculations, reading booklength explanations, or evaluating business deals.)

Buster
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 19:21
Well, thanks for your support, Buster.

I'm putting down live answers to live questions I get constantly in the game. If you don't get them, well, you must not try to help people. It's much easier for me to give them a very detailed card that has all the answers in a format that is the answer to the question they actuallly ask, not the haughty and net-nanny kind of admonishing tone that you get in the old players' card.

The twin pearls of wisdom the older players want to pass on is "buyer beware" and "you don't need land to have fun in this game".

I find that a load of horseshit. I'm for including these points, of course, but not fronting them and browbeating with them. I find them responsible for an entire culture of reluctance, fear, and even hatred around the whole issue of land baronry and land.

I think these two ideas are outmoded. It's not that the buyer shouldn't be aware. It's that the buyer, in buying first land from the Lindens, doesn't have to be "beware" buying from Lindens, and he should be helped and encouraged in doing that.

The older player's card doesn't walk someone through the real exercise of buying first land, really. It just assumes the newbie is walking into a hostile environment that he must be suspicious of.

Instead, in my view, the newbie should feel he has a great power -- the ability to buy scarce land with just $512 for a 512 -- and he should have fun and profit with it.

It's a whole different psychology, and a sea change from the tekkie wiki attitude of denying land as a basis of community, and placing content as the basis of community -- and I think that is one-sided, and short-sighted.

I think if you contemplate this, you will get it:

Look at what they write -- just plain stupid, exaggerated, no longer true, and not helpful.

From: someone
0 Caveat Emptor

Buyer beware. Or at least be aware. Learn what you can about buying land, why you want it, and what you can do with it. The advice in this notecard should keep you out of most land trouble, but in the end you are responsible for your decisions.

1 You don't need land

To enjoy Second Life you DO NOT need land. At the time of this notecard's writing, only 15% of the residents own land. You don't have to have land to have fun in Second life.


My God, what's wrong with only land??? It needs all caps? It is some kind of sickness only 15 percent of the people suffer from, some disability like being colour blind? Balls.

Way more people own land now, and it should be encouraged, not discouraged by this fussy, socialist, tekkie attitude toward the buying and selling of land.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Blanc Noir
Architect
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 41
05-09-2005 21:22
From: Prokofy Neva
My God, what's wrong with only land??? It needs all caps? It is some kind of sickness only 15 percent of the people suffer from, some disability like being colour blind? Balls.

Way more people own land now, and it should be encouraged, not discouraged by this fussy, socialist, tekkie attitude toward the buying and selling of land.


The notecard was likely written at the very height of the land shortage, when demand drove prices sky-high, and the market attracted the very worst of the fly-by-night scammers. A very common thing to hear was complaints that it was impossible to buy land because it was simply too expensive.

So, if a new player joins SL and is discouraged because they can't afford to own land, you can cheer them up by pointing out that you don't have to own land to enjoy SL. And it's true.

There. Now I've explained why it was given such emphasis, but I'm sure you'll turn it around into both a personal attack and paint it as a conspiracy to strangle newbies or something to that effect.
_____________________
BLANC NOIR, ARCHITECT

Check out the new Noir SkyLife residential building kits. Available in Abbotts and on the web at Second Server and SL Exchange.
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-09-2005 21:32
From: someone
The notecard was likely written at the very height of the land shortage, when demand drove prices sky-high, and the market attracted the very worst of the fly-by-night scammers. A very common thing to hear was complaints that it was impossible to buy land because it was simply too expensive.

So, if a new player joins SL and is discouraged because they can't afford to own land, you can cheer them up by pointing out that you don't have to own land to enjoy SL. And it's true.

There. Now I've explained why it was given such emphasis, but I'm sure you'll turn it around into both a personal attack and paint it as a conspiracy to strangle newbies or something to that effect.
__________________


No, I won't turn it into a personal attack.

I'll turn it into a general, generic comment.

The motivation for this old advice card was not to help people find land.

It was political -- designed to vent against hated land-owners, in the guise of "helping newbies." The card tried to keep a neutral tone, but the agenda bleeds through.

This is May 2005. That means it is now EIGHT MONTHS since the "terrible trauma" happened -- the "terrible trauma," I might add, that never affected oldbies, with their free 4096s and their sandboxes and their don't-need-land-to-enjoy-SL attitude.

Indeed, like this hue and cry over the land sales list and private islands, one wonders where the real victims are.

I came into the game in early September 2004. I bought first land. I bought snow land. And here I am, alive, well, and kicking and unharmed.

So I have to say it's time to stop reacting to this "trauma of August 2004". It's over -- if it ever really happened.

Frankly, I can't believe, if Cory was handily telling everybody he was rolling out loads of land in his talk with older players in August, that this was *ever* the big deal that everyone likes to pretend it was.

Sorry, but I have to question these old Myths of the Elders in the Tribe.

At first, I used to say, oh,yeah, awful, horrible. But as time goes on, and I've seen how this place works, and I see how hysteria gets whipped up and passed around in this soup, and I see this default anti-land allergy among certain of the FIC oldbies, I have to say: tripe. Get over it, already.

I'll be it was not unlike the situation we see with new land today. First land ran out a grand total of like 3 days or something. And already, everybody is in a hysteria over it, as if they have been robbed, cheated, drawn, and quartered. It's insane.

The Lindens will roll out more of it. That's what Lindens do. If people think that the five minutes they are without land options is going to kill them, then they aren't looking at the land *already out for sale at good prices all over the place*.

Indeed, one wishes the Lindens had had the spine to gut it out through the August Snowcash Crisis, and let the situation naturally right itself, with the backlog of land getting bought, and speculators being forced down as people begin to buy and sell more.

Sorry, but this particular bit of SL Mythology has to be questioned, and questioned thoroughly.

And *even* if it turns out there really was a Horrible Thing, then the Horrible Thing is now eight months behind us, there is loads more competition against Anshe now, and it's time to get over this fear and this admonishing and this overcautiousness.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
05-09-2005 21:43
From: Prokofy Neva
I like vodka.


Me too.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
05-09-2005 22:13
Hey hey!

So, Prokofy dropped me that notecard the other night, which I thought would be very, very helpful to new folks looking into land. Sure, it might be a bit lengthy and maybe Prokofy will produce a nice summary, with 'links' (in the form of embedded notecards) to more detailed, granular information.

I also really liked the card that was put together last summer and the two have strong similarities.

One thing I do like is the Caveat Emptor at the beginning of the older card. It might need to be slightly reworked so as not to scare any prospective landowner, but I doubt anyone was put off by it. The best piece of advice to a new user, IMHO, is to make sure they are aware and to beware of potential scams. Just as IRL, they are few and far between, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make them aware that they should be careful.

An educated buyer is a happy buyer and one that is likely to be a repeat customer for many transactions to come.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
05-09-2005 22:50
I unignored prok to check out his newbie notecard.

The sheer length of those five points is staggering; over SIX PAGES in a regular word processor.

Assuming the previous 10 points are about the same length, that's 18 pages of information.

A newbie will have expired his trial account before he's read an 18-page treatise on virtual land.

Let's boil it down to a few important points, in a summary that is, thankfully, less than 18 pages:

1) Caveat Emptor.
2) Land is, at best, temporary. At worst, it's unusable.
3) Your view is temporary.
4) Your land value is temporary, and will fluctuate wildly.
5) Using the auction system is worthless, unless you really really really want that piece of land.
6) Research, research, research.
7) Set a max limit of what you want to pay for land, and don't cross that limit.
8) If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

There. Enjoy the rough-and-tumble economy of SL.

LF
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-10-2005 05:20
I don't care WHAT you think of my length. I answer the questions that people actually answer, with the answers that I've them laboriously in 30-minute conversations in half lines in IMs -- only I do it on a card all at once. None of them complain. Only you do. So while I might rearrange it better to be clickable for the section you need, I don't see any reason not to answer the questions in detail to save my breath in those stupid half-lines in IMs that take forever.

1) Caveat Emptor.

This should be last, not first. Nobody has anything to fear buying first land from the Lindens in a subsidized program!

They will get at least $513 for their land if not $1500 or more! Geez.

2) Land is, at best, temporary. At worst, it's unusable.

It lasts as long as you pay for your account. That's pretty lasting.

3) Your view is temporary.

Well, that's why my card says SECOND LIFE IS ABOUT CHANGE.

4) Your land value is temporary, and will fluctuate wildly.

No, that's bullshit. PG is 2-4, M is 5-7 or more, waterfront prime is 7-9 or more. These are pretty stable variations. Look around, do the match.

5) Using the auction system is worthless, unless you really really really want that piece of land.

Now that TRULY is a load of crap. The auction has some great bargains. It often has mature at only 5. Why pay 7 or 8 for a prime, fast, mature waterfront inworld when you can go on the auction, after studying it for a few days, and getting a good deal.

You're just describing what happens occasionally on some furious bids on things like Boardman.

6) Research, research, research.

Yeah, you get to say this, but when I say that, I'm told I'm wasting newbies' time.

7) Set a max limit of what you want to pay for land, and don't cross that limit.

Add to that your cost of tier and any Paypal or GOM fees.

8) If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

No, sometimes you can get deals like public land.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
05-10-2005 05:53
What about adding a bit about buying land in established sims? I've always told new people I meet to check out and try to find land in older sims where things have settled down. They offer a little more predictability and less chaos.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-10-2005 06:36
From: someone
What about adding a bit about buying land in established sims? I've always told new people I meet to check out and try to find land in older sims where things have settled down. They offer a little more predictability and less chaos.


Yes, excellent idea, Ingrid. There are bargains to be had in old established sims, and not all of them have the FPS beaten down.
_____________________
Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
05-10-2005 06:51
From: Prokovy Neva
The motivation for this old advice card was not to help people find land.

It was political -- designed to vent against hated land-owners, in the guise of "helping newbies." The card tried to keep a neutral tone, but the agenda bleeds through.


Between holding 'new player' events that are actually yard sales, holding 'let's talk' meetings that are actually 'let me brainwash you' attempts, and this pathetic attempt to stalk new players to indoctrinate them with your warped philosophy, you demonstrate every day just how off in left field you are, lady.

But, as ever, you are your own worst enemy. Given the opportunity, you just cannot resist spitting at someone, even when it means destroying your own 'I'm doing this for the community' charade.

You mention your college education and infer you learned how to write. You're pretty good with inference, but not good enough... especially when you admit publicly (in-world) that you were tossed from your last job for plagarism. Somehow, I doubt there are many in the real who would consider you 'a writer'. Maybe a copier, hmm?

Ah well. Let us remember there is nothing this pitiful attention whore will not do to try and gain the spotlight. Luckily, she cannot hold the mask in place for long and eventually, her paranoiac delusions and venomous intent always show through.

So much for thinking you suddenly went on meds. Back on ignore you go, putz.

(Maybe the Lindens will use it, indeed. Hah!)

And to think you actually accused Kex of having an agenda. Damn, but you're a hypocrite.
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Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
Nisa Stravinsky
Danger Mouse
Join date: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,238
Omg
05-10-2005 07:32
It's amazing at the amount of venom that flows in the forums...I read each and every thread, and I'm by no means a shallow person, but I find that staying in the comedy section playing silly word games really keeps me in a better frame of mind.

Are you folks this venomous in real life? or does something about this "game" bring it out in you?

Old advice, new advice, scams, mistakes, tutorials, making friends and losing friends - every event serves a purpose and that is adding to the knowledge of each sl resident. It would be nice if we all came in the world safe sound and informed but, but that's the beauty of this game, you're getting to do life over again with a refresh button.
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"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. Will you leave me breathless?"

"I'm beginning to think the human psyche enjoys victimizing itself. " - Sezmra Svarog

"Film critics said I gave a voice to the fear we all have: that we'll reach a certain point in our lives, look around and realize that all the things we said we'd do and become will never come to be -- and that we're ordinary." - Anne Bancroft (2003)
Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
05-10-2005 18:29
Well, Nisa, yeah, sure, can't we all get along? I take your point. Everyone could be contributing, if there was some trusted, neutral party to take all the suggestions and compile then in a card (like a Linden).

But we're in a situation where at least one Linden has said, "Oh, sure, Tekkinista, I'll be glad to hand out your card. Why, I always hand out Tekkinista's card!"

And we have others clamouring for islands and cards and deals all to be funnelled from Lindens.

So I dug out this old FIC card with land advice. It wasn't done with good will. It wasn't to *really* help newbies. It was done with the kind of pitchforky indignation and venom and outrage that people gear up to in this game, when they see a real or imagined "wrong" or "slight". In this case, the "wrong" was the land market turning into a sellers' market, something it rarely is, in SL. With the "snowcrash" of snow land bubbling and then devaluing, as I heard it, and with not enough Linden land coming out, there was "not enough land" which made it scarce and expensive.

We see how a day or two goes by without new land, and there is a stampede and a panic and anger and cries of "unfair" and people angrily denouncing "land barons" as "getting it all" though of course only new players can buy it (the system is set up that way).

Those old-advice cards were rigged, with lots of caveat emptors and cautionary tales, a la wiki, about how "you don't need land to enjoy this game".

I believe that sends the wrong message.

I think lots of people can buy land, and enjoy it, and have fun buying it and reselling it. Hey, if you can play Monopoly you can play SL. Not everyone wants to do that, of course. But there is no need to *fear* and *hate it*. And that is why I embarked on this crusade.

What we see now is the usual self-selected bunch doing the usual thing, and not willing to take any criticism or input from those outside of their little circle, and also not willing to gain the input of those who actually sell land, preferring to keep an anaethema on them.

Fortunately, more and more people are coming into this game and just stepping around all this crap.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
Mirra Hathor
Reality Deviant
Join date: 4 Jul 2004
Posts: 160
back on topic
05-10-2005 18:33
Regardless any attitudes or personal issues that have come up, I think the notecard (which was the original point of this thread, remember?) is just brilliant. I wish it was available to me when I first got land. Not everyone will read all of it but some find ignorance to be bliss. Those who like to know all the details before making a decision-- like I did not-- will find it very useful. Hopefully it will save someone a $3-6k mistake early on.

I have had a problem right along with the poor documentation in SL. I think this fills a gaping niche in the game & I'd like to see more of these.

Prok- would you mind spotting me a copy at your convenience?
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