Bring Back Rez Taxes! No. Don't jump to conclusions. READ first.

Everywhere I go in Second Life, there is crap. I don't mean loads of crap builds, though there are, I mean litter.

I mean vehicles scattered all over the place. Containers from clothing stores dumped all over the stores til its hard to work out whats for sale and what is just crap someone dumped.

I mean people who come build on your plot (which I dont particularly mind, but its even better if they ask first) but then take a copy and leave the original there.

I mean people who leave a ton of crap they were showing off at events. I mean the MILLION discarded snowboards.

You get the picture.

So what I propose is that it costs, on a per prim basis, to rez something out of inventory when it is not on your own land. People will think twice about littering - and prim griefing - if it costs them to do it.

Additionally (and this is actually Chips suggestion, though I was toying with the same kinda proposition cuz it's kinda necessary for it to work out) we should have options to be able to set our land to 'free rezzing', and have an exclude list to allow certain people or groups to rez for free. This is pretty necessary in implementation, for malls etc, and since poor Starax and Siggy would be like a million Lindens in debt to my island by now. *snicker*

Edited to say: Oh yeah. I forgot. Official public sandboxes should be automatically exempt.

eye of the beholder.

They were from Doom weren't they?

You don't find crap littered all over the place, Jack? Funny. I went to just Luna and the vehicle sims the other day, and there musta been 50-60 dumped containers, abandoned vehicles and - oh yes - a castle in the vehicle rezzing area.

i've been severely keyboard lashed, in both world and forum, for supporting this idea . but i still think it's what we need.

picking up on exemptions. it does make sense that you won't pay rez costs to build things on land you, or a group you're in, owns. you've already paid for those prims in tier fees really.

well now i lost that official endorcement stamp AGAIN. i'd loose my firehat if it weren't sitting on my head.

*edited to not add what i edited to say. iow, i didn't actually change anything.

One of the problems with the pre-1.2 tax system was that it never ACTUALLY worked properly. Taxes were never correct for everyone -- some week, the miscalculation fairy would come to your house and bless you, others, it would bring its friends and they'd beat you unconcious. I get the feeling that the decision to move to the 1.2 economic model might have stemmed from a desire to simply throw out the entire thing altogether.

Now, that said, were time and the possibility of bugs not a factor, your idea does have merit. However, it seems to me that a whitelist/blacklist system for land permissions is what's needed. "I want to let Foo Avatar build here, but not Group Bar. They're all banned."

Also, I want to be able to edit land permissions for EVERY plot I own, everywhere, simply by opening My Land and selecting all the parcels, then applying the changes as necessary. If we could set things like, "delete other people's objects if they're no longer in the sim" or "5 minute auto-return on objects from this group", AND it could be done on both a global and per-parcel scale, it seems to me that the problem of discarded vehicles and objects would be solved fairly quickly. We'd also get a much-needed improvement to the land management tools, to boot.

Edit: Typo.

Have an "alert owner" option. A simple click that will IM the owner of their lost item and where it is located.

I used to IM owners of lost vehicles, most were happy that I IM them and knew they had lost the item but did not know where it was. Its just too much work these days to IM each person about each item I see, just make it an automated click option.

My point is that rich people will still be able to rez their crap and a lot of newbs who would make awsome stuff, don't get to try.

One persons "crap" is another persons entertaining build.

Did ya read my post? Did ya? Did ya? I don't think you did. This isn't about building. This is about littering.

When lil newbie gets his land for the landless he will still be able to build his entertaining build for free. This refers to OTHER PEOPLES land where they have CHOSEN to enforce this feature.

Either that or, thanks to our great new economy, he can shell out a few hundred bucks and buy a plot.

I never expected you to agree, Jack. I really didn't. And if in some alternate dimension it were to be implemented, YOU would still have the option to CHOOSE to allow anyone to dump anything they like on your land.

Like so many features in second life, you don't HAVE to use it. It's a land owner based feature, just like, say, banning avatars or autoreturn.

Keep your panties on, Jack. It was a suggestion. Kinda like llGetSex(integer PinkHandbags) or whatever it was you were proposing the other week.

I actually agree with you completely. And yes, I would rather we had a far more comprehensive set of management tools along the lines you mention. I just dont think it's likely to happen, and I figured mine was prolly easier to implement

I agree with bringing back the light tax! It would *force* responsible use of the light prim type.

Ack! No don't do that. I have thousands of em. lol

Actually, and being serious here, fine, do bring back rez taxes for lights, just make private islands exempt, since I'm doing no one any harm but myself

I did read it. It's about re-instating rez taxes. I shared my opinion. Is there EVER an opinion you can learn about and not attack? Why can't an opinion just be out there. You don't have to spazz out.

If you don't like litter then turn on auto-return.

I am against any feature that lets rich people do more than a newb.

You didnt read the post, now did you? Admit it.

See, if you read it, you would see that the point of this is so that we can do something other than auto-return, which is far too 'catch all' and has no exclusions. Once again, just because auto-return would suit your needs, dismiss mine as invalid, as usual, Jack.

As per the attack/spazzing out thing... have you read my signature under each of these posts? It's what I do. It's fun. It gets people like you all worked up. I live for it. Really. And before you say it: yes, I am THAT sad.

Tell you what, Jack. Why don't YOU be constructive, like Catherine was, and suggest an alternative? I'd go for hers over mine, even, but I doubt it's gonna happen.

No, I know you don't want or care about this feature, but lets pretend for a second that you did? You can pretend, right? Well then come up with a suggestion for people who need more controlled management of stuff on their land without dismissing their concerns entirely? Can ya do that Jack? Can ya?

Yea I did... Line for line. The thing is, everything you ask for is already possible. You just need to experiment more with the tools. The only prohibitive factor might be the max 10 groups thing.



Kris we have the tools to do what you are asking already and if you were a little nicer people might show you how to do it.



Well it's not sad Kris, I can see how that would be fun for some people at some ages. 1 year from now that might not be fun at all.



Better personal land admin tools have been requested many times in the past. I don't need to. They are working on it. Along with the island admin tools. Be patient.

Your idea for a rez-tax's would limit new users, and still give rich people the means to rez "crap" all over the world. I stand firm on that opinion.

Okies. Well, just cuz u dont want to show me, can you show Catherine Omega and Colin Linden? Cuz they don't know how I can do what I need either. Thanks. And I cant actually think of too many people I feel like being nice to. Sorry.



Couple of things there, Jacky boy. I'm prolly older than you. At least the way I've always pictured you I'm older than you. And one year from now, if Second Life is even still here, I really seriously doubt I will be (yay, we can turn this into a 'I'm leaving Second Life! (in the next year!)' thread). I hate what it's become and the only real reason I stick around now is cuz I was stupid enough to fork out a stupid amount of money to set up a private island I can never sell. I'm getting my moneys worth out of Second Life and most definitely in humor from these forums before I go find something else to do.

Unless anyone wants to start a 'Get rid of Kris now' fund to recover my costs? Then I'll gladly go now




How patient? I got the email re private island tools that said 'a few weeks' on June 14th. Its more than a few weeks. Ask a Linden and they say that it isnt going to be any time soon. And that wasn't even to do with land admin tools, for which there is no ETA at all.



When I started, I left the Welcome island with over 1000 lindens - I dont remember exactly what it was, but I'm pretty sure it was nearly 2000. Now you leave with 250. What will that buy you that you could even rez?! I don't think it's me and my suggestions that is f*cking over new users. I really don't.

And I did mention sandboxes being free. And I did mention that it was a landowner option. So it's really not going to be all that limiting with all those good samaritans like yourself that will let anyone rez anything for free, is it?

Last word. Cuz I'm off now to get my moneys worth out of Second Life, since I'm home now and have already got my money's worth out of people on the forums today: I want the tools for me. Argue that point all you want. But I suggested a feature I want. It's a feature suggestion forum. See the correlation?

Edited cuz I totally ballsed up formatting...

Like I said, we already have these options. But bringing back the rez-tax is something new that I do not support.

I'm acutally surprized at how the Auto Return feature was implemented. It seems to be a simple timer that, when triggered, returns all "Objects Owned by Others".

At the same time, we have the "Temp on Rez" flag for objects, that only lets the object exist for a short time.

And there once was talk, if I remember correctly, that objects rezed on other people's land (like cars) would be a sort of third temporary type. They would not derez unless their owner left the sim (and the immediate area) or went offline. THAT doesn't seem to be working. My guess is that it was disabled, since people like to be able to build things on each other's land, and groups STILL aren't up to snuff in my opinion.

I think the Auto Return on land should be implemented to tag objects rezed or moved onto that plot with the Temp on Rez flag, and remove it when they leave. Then each object is given the same "lifetime" and not be longer or shorter depending on when they arrived in the course of the land's timer.

EDIT: Oh and a tax, at the point, would conflict with so many existing elements of SL that to find and encode all exceptions would be a pain to do and a pain to explain. LL's motto is Keep It Simple. (I think they leave off the "Stupid"... Or take it as a given.)

One of my saddest experiances in my Second Life was when a newbie asked me for about L$100 to rez his brand new car. Being a greedy bastid' back then was pretty difficult

I dont believe something like this is feasable. One thing I can think of other then "ethical" concerns to counter this suggestion would be the potentially HORRIBLE strain on the user server when handling moving objects. What happens when you have 10,000 objects simultaniously moving on to and off of $ForRez and No$ForRez parcels?

I also agree with Catherine here. I'd rather see improved land managment tools set to a higher priority then something like this.
==Chris

as bad as the idea of rez taxes strikes me, i so wish people were more responsible with light prims. i've turned of local lighting because of light polution.

Hey no arguments from me. I'd rather have what Catherine suggested than what I did. But I not cleva enuff to fink of smart stuff like dat.

I endorse Catherines alternate product and/or service.

I see the problem as a result of irresponsible content creators. For clothing box's have them give their inventory to the owner on rez and delete. For cars make them copy no trans and have them die if they can't find there owner after 1 min. (the easiest way is to do the check is with a timer llKey2Name(llGetOwner())!=""

but isn't this like temp on rez?

but i got an even better idea. a new status flag, STATUS_RETURN_ON_LOST which when set would return the object to it's owner when the owner could no longer be found in the sim.

Come on LL give us a status flag to do it

As much as I hate all of the "crap" left all over my property, I don't support a rez tax. I would love, however, to have a much more sophisticated set of auto-return tools/options, as well as more selectivity in terms of returning non-group-owned objects.

Question,
Waht happens when we rez a prim on our own land and then mistype a coordinate and whisk that booger off 400 meters east (we all do it )? Do we get charged for every plot it passes thru?

Yes. Careless people like you are a hazard to avatars everywhere.