Implementing a "Needs" System

Okay, I was in the Sims Online beta (which I didn't buy the release of), and now I am in this one. I have been on ActiveWorlds and Cybertown before that, also. I can tell you right now that the needs in the Sims made the "virtual chat" concept much more interesting. In ActiveWorlds and Cybertown I got really bored for lack of purpose in the world. Sure, in Cybertown they had jobs, but those were just administrative and HTML jobs. In ActiveWorlds, everyone just hung around Ground Zero in AlphaWorld, and when you went away from it, you'd see miles and miles of empty space. However, in the Sims Online, there is no "ground zero" starting point, you just start out in City View and choose a place to go to. Therefore, the population is scattered about in multiple properties. And the maximum people you can have in a house is usually 18, so that breaks it up even more.

The reason that people choose one house over another is how well it fulfills their needs, or how well it is built. I think for Second Life to be a fun and realistic world, some system of needs should be implemented. Right now we have one need, which is cash. The case was similar in Cybertown, except you made your money from a job, not selling your creations. It was fun for me on the Sims to be able to eat, drink, watch TV, etc. What we could do for that is give builders the ability to add needs-scripts to objects, the higher the need it fulfilled, the more it would cost to add the script. This is just speculation, but if you want to go above and beyond ActiveWorlds, I think this is a MUST.

I do and I don't agree with you.

I see your point -- I didn't play SOL, but was (stress *was*) quite addicted to (standalone) The Sims. The whole "must watch bladder bar" and so on got kinda old after a while, and I'd end up using the various hacked items to fill up those needs quickly. Before I found out about the hacks, though, it was just kinda... stressful. Aw geez, dern sim kid missed the school bus again and now he's getting sent away to boarding school. Well BLEEP, that BLEEP BLEEP just PEED all over the floor because it's too stupid to go to the bathroom by itself. What do you mean you won't marry me just because you're HUNGRY? Take THAT, you BLEEP!

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about scripted hacks to fill up the needs, right? But if someone can't afford those hacks they're going to be quite unhappy.

I dunno.. my gut reaction is "please, no".... I could possibly be persuaded in the other direction, but that wouldn't mean anything in the end =)

#!

I would tend to think that this idea in general is ok, but to have it be a need thing would take away the freedom to be creative and have long mind bending projects, because you would be required to fullfill needs for the av. Not my idea of relaxing fun. The draw and apeal to SL for me is the fact that there is no immediate situation to shoot out of or race to get the lead or any thing else like a single purpose game(which is most games on the market).
I usually like and get addicted to RPG's but this is also a need/single purpose type thing. But SL is a at your own pace create or participate in your own fun type of online community.

Just my 2 cents Maybe have events or something in world seperate from the community whole. That allows some kind of needs type competition.

I played The Sims Online too, and respectfully, I have to disagree with the need for "needs". When I'm working on building, scripting or involved in an interesting conversation, the last thing I want to do is divert attention to fulfill some artifical requirement.

After weeks of playing TSO, I was at first disconcerted by the freedom of Second Life. I didn't have to do anything or be anywhere. But I now spend my time as my interests, and not the game, dictate.

Far from being bored, I find there's never enough time to do all the things I want to do, and the six hours I have in-world flies by all too quickly.

I'm with Bel... part of the reason I never liked the Sims (single player) was that I felt I spent too much time doing monotonous tasks. I can even accept it in a more traditional 'game' like EverQuest. But honestly, I do find that I end up running out of time... the fact that you can make money by creating things is a bonus. Heck, maybe you could get a job being a salesperson (I wouldn't mind eventually hiring someone just to go out and lead people to my store). Having to go pee in the middle of it would really detract from the creative aspect...

I actually think that there are needs, and will certainly be needs in the future. But they tend to be realistic needs. For instance... as a budding shopkeeper and designer, I need advertisement, I need to take a look at shelf space, I need an attractive and distinctive shop (and I paid for that). In the future, I may have to look towards expanding, coming up with more methods of getting my name and brand out there, etc. etc. etc. I rather like this about the game, and unless you mean like, minigames... I don't think I'd like it. But yeah, maybe I'm misunderstanding.

@.@ I would truely dread a needs system if it were implemented in SL. I spent any time I did play the sims trying to do what I wanted and ingnoring it...this lead a large death toll of various characters..>.> besides...its really inconvient to have to curl up in a ball and be forced to sleep in the middle of a converstion..

I took part in the Sims Online beta as well and while the needs weren't the reason I stopped playing (you can thank the skill decay and near impossibility to keep even two skills up near their max and get anything else done) they did detract from the overall experience.

I couldn't go home and build for too long without my roommates around for fear of my Social bar getting way too into the red. And frankly, building anything wasn't worth it unless we were building moneymaking houses, because nobody wanted to visit and hang around a house that didn't have a zillion Code machines and free buffet. I think what hinders TSO the most is the fact that you feel like you are required to do all this stuff in order for your character to stay happy and sane -- unless you wanted to be a griefer and just pee all over folks' houses, which I do admit sounded pretty damn tempting after doing nothing BUT trying to play "right"...

I like the open-endedness of Second Life. I like the fact that I'm not required to be anywhere or do anything at a certain time (though I am a proponent of the pick-up-yer-paycheck stipend thingy...) There's no feeling of needless advancement through any ranks, though I'm sure there will be people who want nothing more than to be on the top of some Leaders lists -- but then, that's their prerogative. While there's an economic model in place, it makes sense from technical and social standpoints, and really, any MMO game players should be used to an economy of some kind or another by now.

Instituting overall global needs would cramp that free feeling of play and make the game seem more like a chore at times than others. I hated having to stop building in my TSO house to go out and socialize with others -- this, you must realize, is coming from someone who plays solo classes in MMORPGs because he detests grouping with idiots. SL is the game I'm most social in because I don't feel like I have to (and the people are all super-cool so far!)

I'd just like to see how far the Lindens can take this freeform playing style. I really dig it because I feel it's quite unique to the 3D MMO worlds. And yes, having to pee in the middle of a sales pitch would see rather awkward, wouldn't it? :)

Freedom...What is best about SL is that it lets me come up with and design my own content. No more muddling through a quest someone else wrote, no more hack and slash on a MOB that someone else built... in SL it is all about what I do. I create objects to look at; they started out simple and have gradually become more complex. I write scripts to give those objects behaviors, and at the moment they are relatively simple behaviors, but eventualy they will be fully complex AI... SL gives me total freedom to dictate my behavior in game... if I am lonely, I go find some company, if I feel cramped, I disappear to my super secret laboratory.

The problem with other games, or rather the inconvience, is that there is only so much to do, they have a staff that is generating new things maybe monthly, here in SL, we get it daily, either from our selves, or our neighbors. SL gives us the tools to allow us to create our own personal set of "needs." Take advantage of it

yup... what Nada said...

Kerstin

ok i see your point Ciaran -
I see your point for the people that want to have some activity mapped out for them.
So in that vein, it would be nice to have some kind of opt in 'needs' type activity. Of course I've been trying to figure one out. i.e trade skill or something - something addictive and repetetive that you could do if you wanted.

But I don't think I'd do it all too much.

I was thinking about building a mini adventure game that may offer a sort of quest or something where it would be prewritten and all packaged nice. I've been thinkin about that since I started this beta and I still havent done it.

Heh but I don't have enuff TIME damn it.
Can I buy a 24/7 acct with LL Dollars pretty plz?
=P What if I send you guys cookies er somethin?

I think we have needs in SL although they are not mapped out for us. We need to create an environment where we can survive and enjoy. We need to create a way to earn money. But this is all completely left up to our imaginations.

One thing that the SL "needs" require you to do is interact with others with a level of freedom that the sims cannot match.

imho

fen-

Hah! the only "needs" you have in second life are your own! If you feel the need to socialize - you can. If you feel the need to be creative, you can fulfill it, if you feel the need to give up worldly possesions and sit on a mountian to give advice to pilgrims - you can do it.

I think many users right now are stuck in thinking this is purely a game. You can't define SL that narrowly. There are games and competitions in second-life - you can become wealthy, or the best builder, or have the highest reputation. You can also buy a gun and go kill players in the outlands. You can create your own little Role-Playing Dungeon. But if you don't want to play games, you don't have to. You can use SL as the most advanced chat room ever made. You can use it to create an art exhibit which you stream into a gallery on San-Fransisco, you can use it as the most immersive online experience ever.

If you add "needs" it sudenly becomes a game, and it is no longer as exciting a product. You just have Sims Online in 3rd person, without the pre-made content. It is because it is so totally open-ended, and not just a game, that is such an exciting concept.

BBC

I don't see SL as a game, and it confuses me actually when people refer to it as one. Maybe it's because I've only ever played one computer game in my life, and that was stand alone. Other than that, my experience in 3DVR has been in Active Worlds, which has no game elements at all. (Except for a few worlds where there are self-imposed role playing rules.)

The only 'game' elements I can see in S/L are the challenges of the economic system, and I like it just like this. Well I do wish the economic system were more generous, but despite all my whining and complaining, I am very much enjoying the challenge of establishing an income. Particularly since I got the crazy idea of trying to see how I can use r/l $$ to generate inworld income.

Kerstin

I agree that SL is more than a game, I use the word game for lack of a better one.
Can anyone provide a better single word description? If we find one, I would perfer use that instead of "game"

fen-

how about "experience" ?

#!

enviroment

or maybe - sounds kinda cliched - a Virtual Reality

BBC

is how I think of it

I was always fond of "hallucination" -- MUSH stands for Multi-User Shared Hallucination -- though it works better for the text-based games since the settings and actions really are envisioned in the participants' minds. I've been using "environment" for a while now and it works, but just barely -- it's also not as whimsical or as fun as it should be.

I have no qualms about calling it a "game" since I define a game as something done for recreation, but I can see why others don't feel the same way. I hope I don't offend when I say "in-game" or "game mechanics" or such... honest, it's not a four-letter word in my mind and I'm trying real hard to wean myself off it... !!

How about Multi User Visual (or Virtual) Interactive Environment. MUVIE.

Holy cats, that's great! Datura gets my vote! (Even MUVE sounds good!)

i would vote for MUVE or MUVIE

I played The Sims Online beta as well, and I have to throw in my 2 cents with the rest. Needs are bad. In the Sims, I grouped Skills (because they decayed) and needs in the same group, labeled "Time-sinks that keep me from doing those things I actually Enjoy." Yeah, bit long of a group name, but accurate. =)

As for what exactly Second Life is? I was going to suggest calling it a metaverse, since to me that's what it is, but MUVIE got my attention. =)

Read my Uhoh post youi will see what was put there and maybe that will help you relax on this matter it sure did me lol











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I suppose needs will arise when we get more into open beta and release, but if they don't, Second Life will just be ActiveWorlds with better graphics. It is nice to have total freedom, and I understand your point, but activities are limited right now. You can either build or socialize. That's about it. You have total freedom to explore, but you can only look, not interact. Like visiting a giant art gallery. It's pretty, but not hands-on.

Then make something you can interact with Ciaran. Its not that hard, and more and more world/user interaction is added daily from users.

BBC