Second Life Forums Archive - Flash Animations

Scalar Tardis

SL Scientist/Engineer

Join date: 5 Nov 2005

Posts: 249

11-02-2006 19:20

Flash will have its uses for sure, so no reason to kill it outright. But to calm all your fears, LL needs to give clients better control over what sort of flash is allowed.

This is a lot different from the normal browser environment because you don't normally have the potential to see 20 Flash animation windows open simultaneously. But LL CAN make flash managable, even for the slowest computers.

LL could put in a preference panel for the internal browser, and specifically have a section that limits how big and complicated Flash animations can be.

Preferences:

Browser on a Prim:

Flash on a Prim:

[x] Enable Flash on a primitive

Maximum number of Flash animations allowed at once
STEPPED-SLIDER: 5, 10,15,20,25,50,75,100,150,250,500, No Limit
DEFAULT: 20

Do not load Flash on a prim if the file size exceeds: (STEPPED-SLIDER)
10 kb, 25 kb, 50 kb, 100 kb, 250 kb, 500 kb, 1 meg, 2.5 meg, 5 meg, No Limit
DEFAULT: 100kb

- Limit Flash quality setting (lower is faster):
( ) All Low ( ) All Med ( ) All High ( ) Vary by distance from camera
DEFAULT: Vary by distance

- Degrade from High to Med at (meters): (STEPPED-SLIDER)
0.5, 1.0, 2.5, 5.0, 7.5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 250, 300
DEFAULT: 10 m

- Degrade from Med to Low at (meters): (STEPPED-SLIDER)
0.5, 1.0, 2.5, 5.0, 7.5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 250, 300
DEFAULT: 25 m

And so LL can permit Flash, but force Flash content creators to severely restrict what they are doing so that Flash will be able to load without freezing, crashing, or overwhelming client computers.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

11-03-2006 04:59

From: Kyrah Abattoir

i am suprised LL didn't see the there.com's system of "proximity loading", like only the 3 closest html pannel get displayed or something like this.

SL has this kind of scheme already. Look at the Level of Detail culling or the six-closest-lights system.

The problem is that even if they show "the three closest HTML objects", it's still going to be a nightmare in a mall. You're going to be loading one ofter the other as you walk around, making movement horribly laggy, and you'll lose the ability to "camera-walk" around the displays.

Farallon Seal suggested that they limit HTML like Quicktime... one prim per parcel and only when you're in the parcel. I could handle that but I don't think that would give the people who are asking for HTML on a prim what they need.

What we need more than HTML on a prim is efficient scripted text on a prim.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

11-03-2006 05:04

From: Scalar Tardis

Maximum number of Flash animations allowed at once
STEPPED-SLIDER: 5, 10,15,20,25,50,75,100,150,250,500, No Limit
DEFAULT: 20

Try 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, many, default 1.

Scalar Tardis

SL Scientist/Engineer

Join date: 5 Nov 2005

Posts: 249

11-03-2006 11:10

You are way over-reacting. Flash CAN be tiny and inconspicuous. That was its original design purpose.

Macromedia and now Adobe have kept expanding support for what it can do, so now we're up to flying 3D objects and Direct3D support, but it can still easily fulfill its original purpose of compact size and high rendering speed if the Flash designer isn't horriby sloppy with their work.

Heck we could turn this into a game with corporate websites: Find the Flash

Novell has a really lightweight Flash animation on their home page:
http://www.novell.com

Flash File: hp_b_windycity2.swf
File size of this Flash animation? 7.16 KB (7,341 bytes)
Speed impact on computer? No impact

This is specifically why I suggest including a limiter on the size of the Flash files that will load in SL. As you can see Novell does a very nice job with a microscopic download size.

A default size limit of 100 kilobytes would go a long ways towards preventing idiots from building Flash lag-monsters which attempt to use every bell and whistle in the book. As you can see with my Novell example, even 50 kilobytes would not be an unreasonably small default size limit.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

11-03-2006 15:01

From: Scalar Tardis

Flash File: hp_b_windycity2.swf
File size of this Flash animation? 7.16 KB (7,341 bytes)
Speed impact on computer? No impact

1. The speed impact of a flash file is not a function of its size, it's a function of what the code in the file does. A flash file with some large images that's just a slide show or moving a bouncing ball around over an image can be low impact. A small flash file containing a badly-implemented marquee text can be a killer.
2. The speed impact of *one* file is a whole different ball of lag than the speed impact of a dozen files.

Flash Animations
Scalar Tardis SL Scientist/Engineer Join date: 5 Nov 2005 Posts: 249	11-02-2006 19:20 Flash will have its uses for sure, so no reason to kill it outright. But to calm all your fears, LL needs to give clients better control over what sort of flash is allowed. This is a lot different from the normal browser environment because you don't normally have the potential to see 20 Flash animation windows open simultaneously. But LL CAN make flash managable, even for the slowest computers. LL could put in a preference panel for the internal browser, and specifically have a section that limits how big and complicated Flash animations can be. Preferences: Browser on a Prim: Flash on a Prim: [x] Enable Flash on a primitive Maximum number of Flash animations allowed at once STEPPED-SLIDER: 5, 10,15,20,25,50,75,100,150,250,500, No Limit DEFAULT: 20 Do not load Flash on a prim if the file size exceeds: (STEPPED-SLIDER) 10 kb, 25 kb, 50 kb, 100 kb, 250 kb, 500 kb, 1 meg, 2.5 meg, 5 meg, No Limit DEFAULT: 100kb - Limit Flash quality setting (lower is faster): ( ) All Low ( ) All Med ( ) All High ( ) Vary by distance from camera DEFAULT: Vary by distance - Degrade from High to Med at (meters): (STEPPED-SLIDER) 0.5, 1.0, 2.5, 5.0, 7.5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 250, 300 DEFAULT: 10 m - Degrade from Med to Low at (meters): (STEPPED-SLIDER) 0.5, 1.0, 2.5, 5.0, 7.5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 250, 300 DEFAULT: 25 m And so LL can permit Flash, but force Flash content creators to severely restrict what they are doing so that Flash will be able to load without freezing, crashing, or overwhelming client computers.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	11-03-2006 04:59 From: Kyrah Abattoir i am suprised LL didn't see the there.com's system of "proximity loading", like only the 3 closest html pannel get displayed or something like this. SL has this kind of scheme already. Look at the Level of Detail culling or the six-closest-lights system. The problem is that even if they show "the three closest HTML objects", it's still going to be a nightmare in a mall. You're going to be loading one ofter the other as you walk around, making movement horribly laggy, and you'll lose the ability to "camera-walk" around the displays. Farallon Seal suggested that they limit HTML like Quicktime... one prim per parcel and only when you're in the parcel. I could handle that but I don't think that would give the people who are asking for HTML on a prim what they need. What we need more than HTML on a prim is efficient scripted text on a prim.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	11-03-2006 05:04 From: Scalar Tardis Maximum number of Flash animations allowed at once STEPPED-SLIDER: 5, 10,15,20,25,50,75,100,150,250,500, No Limit DEFAULT: 20 Try 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, many, default 1.
Scalar Tardis SL Scientist/Engineer Join date: 5 Nov 2005 Posts: 249	11-03-2006 11:10 You are way over-reacting. Flash CAN be tiny and inconspicuous. That was its original design purpose. Macromedia and now Adobe have kept expanding support for what it can do, so now we're up to flying 3D objects and Direct3D support, but it can still easily fulfill its original purpose of compact size and high rendering speed if the Flash designer isn't horriby sloppy with their work. Heck we could turn this into a game with corporate websites: Find the Flash Novell has a really lightweight Flash animation on their home page: http://www.novell.com Flash File: hp_b_windycity2.swf File size of this Flash animation? 7.16 KB (7,341 bytes) Speed impact on computer? No impact This is specifically why I suggest including a limiter on the size of the Flash files that will load in SL. As you can see Novell does a very nice job with a microscopic download size. A default size limit of 100 kilobytes would go a long ways towards preventing idiots from building Flash lag-monsters which attempt to use every bell and whistle in the book. As you can see with my Novell example, even 50 kilobytes would not be an unreasonably small default size limit.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	11-03-2006 15:01 From: Scalar Tardis Flash File: hp_b_windycity2.swf File size of this Flash animation? 7.16 KB (7,341 bytes) Speed impact on computer? No impact 1. The speed impact of a flash file is not a function of its size, it's a function of what the code in the file does. A flash file with some large images that's just a slide show or moving a bouncing ball around over an image can be low impact. A small flash file containing a badly-implemented marquee text can be a killer. 2. The speed impact of one file is a whole different ball of lag than the speed impact of a dozen files.

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