Proposal: Griefer/Prison Sims

I understand a while ago the Lindens considered setting aside a prison sim where punished users could serve their time. I would like to revisit that idea but with a different spin. Here is what I propose:

Several adjoining sims be set up and designated as "Loose enforcement areas". These sims would pretty much be sandboxes and any behavior that doesn't harm the grid, or expose Linden Labs to legal liability will be permitted there. Yes, you can orbit, run naked, verbally abuse each other, do whatever your sick little mind comes up with.

People can freely come and go from this place, however, if you are guilty of TOS/CS violations committed on the main grid you will be confined to the griefer sim during your sentence rather than be suspended from the game.

Why do this?
1. When I file an abuse report against a griefer, I am not looking for payback, I am looking to remove an individual whose concept of the game is radically different than ours. I think we both have rights. The griefer should be able to engage in the fun of blasting people, and I should be able to peacefully pursue my activities un-harassed. I think confinement to a griefer sim would accomplish both.

2. If denial of service is NOT the stakes for a particular crime, It lowers aversion on the part of the Lindens to punish. A Linden will feel more comfortable sending a griefer to the griefer sims than they may feel about suspending their account. Hopefully this will result in swifter justice and longer sentences, freeing the main grid from abuse for a longer period of time.

3. Having the griefer sims would take the edge off of the self righteous nature of some people's arguments. Rather than saying "Your behavior is not allowed" we can say "that behavior is happening in the wrong place". For those that insist that griefing is an implicit part of the game we can say "It is...but that happens over THERE, not in my store."

Just an idea. Any thoughts?

I thought that's what Jessie was supposed to be?

This is a brilliant idea! However, more severe infractions should still be suspendable or bannable. If I can cause problems and get sent into the pen, but my friends can visit me, it's not that much of a deterrent. It might be interesting to watch a subculture grow in a place like that.

Moleculor, nobody gets confined to Jesse.

Huns, I'm comfortable with Griefers not being deterred as long as they are removed. That's why I hope sentences would be longer. A crime that would get you suspended for an hour may instead get you a day or two in the griefer sim. The point being, they will be removed from the main grid.

As for subculture...that WOULD be really interesting to watch. I also wonder if they would LIKE it there.

Can I build the wall around it, ala 'Escape from New York'? Complete with barricaded bridges!!

Heheheh.

What if a griefer prefers this punishment sim to the main grid? This would prevent a punishment from being effective to them. It'd be the same as sending a child to their room where they have a tv, computer, and phone.

Also I'd hate to have all the griefers confined together in a manner they can meet each other and group up when they are released back into the main world.

As I said, They would be there longer. Reforming the griefer is not as important if they simply can't get to the main grid most of the time because of their behavior. Since confinement to the Griefer sim is not as bad as account suspension, the Lindens can feel more comfortable issuing this punishment quickly rather than verbal warnings. I don't know how the timing should work, but maybe it will go like this:

1 hour suspension = 1 day in the griefer sim
1 day suspension = 1 week in grifer sim

Something like that. So the trick here is not to try to beat them until they are good, but to confine them to a place where their behavior will only disturb people with similar views on behavior.

This was done in DragonRealms.

The brats didn't like it at all. When they plugged someone, they got plugged back! They quit playing completely.

The hard-core Jesse types developed a very tight, player-enforced set of rules designed to give everyone an equal chance to survive (like, give new people a chance to level up before taking them on).

I'd like to have a serious discussion about the pros and cons of the TOS. How much does it affect people's behavior? Most of us would continue to behave civilly even without TOS; and for some people it doesn't stop them anyway. How many fall betwen the two groups: behaving only because they will get in trouble if they don't?

On the flip side, it is clear that most griefers depend on the TOS to protect them from retailation.

I'd like to see a set of prison sims; and find out how it turns out.

Oh, and anybody who wants to go there ought to be allowed.

Interesting proposal Aimee.



Why do we need to set aside areas for a free-for-all? I'm all for the prison idea but we're all supposed to be adult here and if some cannot be then they should be thrown in the slammer and after a 'three strikes and you are out' approach, executed. Publicly executed In any form, setting aside an area where anything goes is a form of approval and I doubt if LL wants to be seen as approving that behavior, even if it is isolated.



Again, I agree with this but would like to see people given a three strikes and then have their Avi publicly executed




I may be in the minority but I am looking for payback. I want that asshole to suffer for what they did to me and/or my friends. I don't want them to be offered a place to work their stress or other emotional issues out. They need to be tossed in prison.

They should understand right from wrong and if they don't they should not be here. And, if right and wrong gets fuzzy at times based on what you and I feel are right and wrong, then the Uber Lords (the Lindens) can make that decision. After a few people would be tossed into this prision sim, it will be clear what the crimes and punishments will be.




A GREAT idea but I feel you are possibly too compasionate to be the champion of it. You be the carrot and I will volunteer to be the stick.

They won't stay in this grid. Most of their fun comes from annoying/getting a reaction out of the people in the main sims.

Only if I can build the Dukes' Caddy complete with chandeliers!!

AMEN!

This is a spectacular idea, but I'd go further. I'd make the entire area a PvP zone, where certain scripts (if created by the landowner, supposedly Gov Linden) would work but others would not. Perhaps one sim as a sandbox building area, but the rest of the area a PvP arena. Let the carnage be entirely dependant on a system of scripts, like those used in Chinatown or Vorago, so that it's dependant more or less on ability/luck than on which little monkey got their hands on the most powerful push-gun. Let the confinees not be able to access their inventory while in these zones, only give them perhaps some sort of backpack and allow them what amusements they are able to pick up. See if it becomes a chaotic free-for-all, or if some sort of subculture develops, given a relatively level playing field. What if there were only two rocket packs in the entire landmass? Only 3 submachine guns, a few pistols, a grenade launcher? 2 Damage enabled LTA ships?

Hell, we should perhaps be permitted to do this on private islands, if the owner chooses. Why not an estate where griefing is an art form, or racial slurs are traded with reckless abandon?

The idea strikes a nice balance between people who are a bit sensitive about how others might interact with them, and griefers and wierdos who are a bit sensitive for getting spanked when they misbehave.


/nother edit.

I would enforce minimal stays for all people, including voluntary visitors. Perhaps 24 hours. I think that it would too-easily become a sport to go and shoot up the convicts, then poof away before they can retaliate. The idea of such a sim is that everyone there is on equal footing. If some people are there by mandate and others may come and go as they please, all are not on an equal footing.

ENDORSED!
I love this. I could then go to the prison on purpose and grief some griefers when I got bored

I would have said Camille is probably right, but I think Almarea's experience may be applicable. Fine by me if they get bored and find some other game to play. Also fine by me if they decide to stay there and either grief each other (not as much fun as hassling the rest of us, I think), or create their own set of rules. I think Aimee's got the right idea in broadening the scope of what the Lindens can do to griefers, so they're more likely to do it. People who want retribution can follow the griefers there and grief them back without having to worry about a reverse TOS accusation. Me, I've got better things to do with my time.

If you make the designation "Extreme" instead of "Jail", and do a little marketing, you might even be able to get some of the griefers to go there in the first place, along with anyone else who wants a looser system. It is an extension of the Jesse idea. It's not like the rest of us would be subsidizing it. They'd have to pay their own way, just as we all do. Then you'd just mark some accounts as "Extreme Only" either temporarily or permanently, if people demonstrated that they didn't want to follow the rules of the rest of the grid when elsewhere. You could include or exclude Extreme sims from a search, same as you can with Mature now.

It would be interesting to see what culture developed there, I agree. Interesting... from a distance.

What about alts?

neko

The Simshank Redemption... redux!

Let's hear it! Huzzah!

I like the idea of prison sims, but i don't think the sentences should be longer. They should, however, have to serve out thier sentence in-world. In other words, if you get "1 hour in the penalty box", you should have to spend a full hours worth of time there before you are allowed to return to the main grid. A 1 day ban would be much worse, because it mihgt take you a week or more to log 24 hours in the prison grid. Of course, people will set up "stay alive" programs to burn thru thier time while they go watch tv, but this is the griefer grid we're talking about, so it wont be but 2 or 3 mins before someone comes along and blasts them with a relog gun.

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"

- Accused murderer Robert Blake as Baretta
(or was it good-natured pimp Huggy Bear who said that)

Personally, I'd prefer a set of stocks, a town square and a basket of virtual rotten tomatoes.

J/K Actually, I love this idea

Only if I can get paid a LOT to rescue Cubey when he crashes one of his jets there...

Plisskin... Racer Plisskin.

Oh the sadist in me likes this idea. I think I'll park my alt there. This area would become a game itself.

<APPROVED>

I dont know why I didn't think of it earlier. Can't we just send all the griefers to the Kid Grid? That way they can be with people thier own age.

So, like, what if for a first offence you just heve to visit the griefer grid and listen to a hardened griefer tell you why you don't want to be sent there.

"Listen kid, you see that scary griefer over there? How'd you like to be their..."

A "Scared Straight" program for 1st time griefers...

Racer P.

And will we call the Griefer Sim Prison... Australia?

I love the idea. WHo knows, maybe one in a hundred of them will actually figure out that they could have even MORE fun by not being a griefer!

I like the stocks and tomatoes idea just as much.

I love the idea as well! That would be so neat to have these people gone from bothering us, but also have them bothering each other -- I'm in no doubt that they may come to enjoy being there.

One thing I might want to point out: with the sim limitations and the rather large number of griefers, wouldn't the prisons become overcrowded pretty quickly?

So who pays the tier on the prison sims?