Do you think they should take the "Pledge of Allegiance" out of Schools?
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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12-11-2004 14:56
From: Selador Cellardoor Cross,
<<I don't think it hurts to have at least a bit of pride in your own nation.>>
There's nothing wrong with having pride in your own nation. Or at least, thinking that it's the best place to live. That's certainly what I think about the UK.
What I think is wrong is an uncritical subjugation of yourself to the State, and to my mind getting children to chant pledges encourages that kind of mindset. I have always had a problem with nationalistic jingoism -- intitiating minors into the cult of fascism is a crime and decidedly unamerican. Get rid of the "pledge". Allegiance to --a flag?? Repulsive. |
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Cereal Milk
Magically Delicious
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 203
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12-12-2004 02:58
The whole thing is just a bunch of meaningless words, whether there's God in them or not. Do you seriously think elementary-school-age kids are mature enough to understand the concept of allegiance to one's country, and all that that entails? I know when I was that age, my allegiance was to Nintendo.
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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12-12-2004 05:37
Cereal,
If that is the case, is it not true then that making children recite the Pledge merely teaches them that their solemn oath is meaningless?
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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12-12-2004 06:46
From: someone If that is the case, is it not true then that making children recite the Pledge merely teaches them that their solemn oath is meaningless? I think we'll get a better example of this in the US on January 20th but I'm biased. |
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
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12-12-2004 07:38
god is besides the point. pledging allegiance is the pervesion of a human's instinctual need to belong by subjugating them to the domination of the those in power by creating boundaries of interiority and exteriority that contradict any real affinity.
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
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12-12-2004 07:42
From: Malachi Petunia I think we'll get a better example of this in the US on January 20th but I'm biased. thanks for that link malachi. the "turn your back on bush" idea is ingenius.
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Jauani Wu
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Cereal Milk
Magically Delicious
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 203
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12-12-2004 14:19
From: Selador Cellardoor If that is the case, is it not true then that making children recite the Pledge merely teaches them that their solemn oath is meaningless? When that oath is just words put in your mouth by people you obey simply because you know you'll get in trouble if you don't obey them? Sure. |
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
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12-13-2004 05:45
Yes, Cereal,
YES!
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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12-13-2004 05:49
From: Olympia Rebus I put no, but I have mixed feelings.
My biggest problem is that its a serious pledge being used insincerely.
Most kids (and perhaps some adults) are just reciting the damned thing without taking into consideration what it means.
I am in favor of removing the "under god" part, however. I agree with everything Olympia has stated here! 
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
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12-13-2004 05:52
From: SuezanneC Baskerville I don't think there should be governement funded schools or compulsory education, but while waiting for these evils to be eliminated, there certainly shouldn't be statist rituals such as saying the pledge of allegiance or singing national anthems. Have you seen this website Suezanne? Alliance for the Separation of School & State
http://honested.com/It is pretty neat!
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Garoad Kuroda
Prophet of Muppetry
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
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12-13-2004 22:35
Shhhhhh! Isn't that an evil conservative idear? (Although ironically it involves a big change.) We can't post those here!  It'll even eliminate the problem(s) that prompted this thread!
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BTW
WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
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Corwin Weber
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Join date: 2 Oct 2003
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12-13-2004 22:51
From: Garoad Kuroda Shhhhhh! Isn't that an evil conservative idear? (Although ironically it involves a big change.) We can't post those here! It'll even eliminate the problem(s) that prompted this thread! Not really.... just bring in a whole host of worse ones. |
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Kayin Zugzwang
A Superior Grouch
Join date: 7 Jun 2004
Posts: 269
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12-13-2004 23:02
I still insist its all nit picking. I'd imagine the best course of action though would to make things optional. Saying it and saying "Under god"... Relaly, I can't imagine someone getting in much trouble for skipping it now. I think one would just need to make that fact clearer.
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Garoad Kuroda
Prophet of Muppetry
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,989
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12-13-2004 23:06
From: Corwin Weber Not really.... just bring in a whole host of worse ones. Details please!
_____________________
BTW
WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
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Corwin Weber
Registered User
Join date: 2 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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12-14-2004 00:07
From: Garoad Kuroda Details please! There's another thread on this.... so details can be managed there.... but as an overview.... Picture what a world without public schools would look like. For that matter don't bother picturing. Just pick up a history book. Page back to the part where the only schools were run by the christian church. What's the title of that section? 'The Dark Ages.' Next feel free to thank the teacher who taught you to read.  (And in most schools... WITHOUT telling you you were going to hell all the while...) |