Do you think they should take the "Pledge of Allegiance" out of Schools?

Lol!

Blake, I don't think the issue is with the pledge in and of itsself, but the reference to "One Nation, Under God".

*scratches head with puzzled look*

Let's see...

- Another thread with a controversial topic/poll
- Another thread started by Blake
- Another thread where the poll doesn't address the core issues
- Another thread that will probably result in the thread starter getting skewered

What is it?!? Do you also beat yourself over the head with a hammer? Are you a pain-slut who likes humiliation?

I'm confused here...

- Ace

Lmao Ace!

I put no, but I have mixed feelings.
My biggest problem is that its a serious pledge being used insincerely.
Most kids (and perhaps some adults) are just reciting the damned thing without taking into consideration what it means.

I am in favor of removing the "under god" part, however.

'Under God' wasn't part of the original, and IS a clear CSS violation. The entire point of adding it in in the first place was to distinguish us from the 'godless communists' and indoctrinate people with the idea that we were 'one nation, under God' which we aren't and never have been.

From talking to many christians.... this strategy seems to have worked quite well. That's why it needs to be removed.

The pledge itself I'm rather ambivalent to. I don't really mind it, but it does call up images of schoolchildren reciting the various pledges to Stalin that the USSR used. (It's not identical... but you have to admit, there are at least SOME similarities.) Remove the 'under God' bit and we have no real problems tho.

I'd rather pledge allegiance to my fellow human beings rather than some symbol of an ideal that we have a long way to live up to.

Arti

Get rid of the stupid thing. Isn't teaching our children to be jingoistic flag worshipers beneath us?

I think we should perform third-trimester abortions upon the flag in the middle of public school elementary classes during xmas parties, but only on women of african decent who support gun control and belief in trickle down economic policy.

Trollish enough for ya, Blake?

LOL! Yes that will do...hmm..now let me think.......LOL!

LOL, damn another ruined keyboard !

"Pay no attention to the Man behind the Curtain." said The Puppet Man.
*Puts on his Jester Outfit again for the next exciting act*

No, I think they should take Blake outta the forums...

































































...and put him in a mental institution where he belongs.

I don't think there should be governement funded schools or compulsory education, but while waiting for these evils to be eliminated, there certainly shouldn't be statist rituals such as saying the pledge of allegiance or singing national anthems.

Yes. It's very boring and has no melody. Replace it with Ray Charles' rendition of America the Beautiful.

If they don't want to pledge allegiance to the US, then they don't need to go to our public schools.

During the cold war we used to be accustomed to seeing anti-Soviet propaganda in our newspapers - stories that made the Soviet Union appear grotesque and alien. I remember one indignant story in one of our papers about how horror comics were on sale (as I recall they had scary monsters in them). This was just before they started to appear here.

But of all the weird and slightly frightening stuff we saw, nothing struck me as more weird and frightning than American schoolchildren reciting the oath of allegiance. I think it was the whole idea of subjugating yourself to the State which seemed so scary.

Mind you, this was at a time when they still played the National Anthem at the end of films over here, and people nearly trampled each other to death in order to get out of the cinema before they were expected to stand.

I'm probably as liberal as they come and I think removing it is a load of crap. You're already not required to say it.

"But OMFG IT SAYS GOD!"

Eh, who gives a damn?

Obviously a bunch of people, but I think it's nit picking.

Kayin Zugzwang I agree with you totally THe pledge of alligance has been in schools for as long as schools have been around things are already to the point u cant say anothing to a student now they want to change tradition I think that is tooo much...............

But Selador, the Soviet Union *was* grotesque and alien. You should have tried living there.

America is a great country. It's a good idea to aspire to something higher than yourself. They say "God" but they don't really spell out in a big way what God is because they have separation of church and state. If you think that the Christian Right having influence over Bush is somehow violating a separation of church and state, again, try living under the Russian Orthodox Church/KGB/Russian State alliance for a time, or try living with the mullahs in Iran and you'll get a better idea of how foolish you sound.

In America, God can be a bonfire in a woods clearing with wiccans standing around in a circle chanting, God can be a little pamphlet you get in the mail with inspirational sayings, God can be in an awesome cathedral, synagogue, or mosque.

It's precisely because Americans don't specify any particular path to God, but say that yes, there is God and He is Higher -- or for some believers, She is Higher -- that it's absolutely fine by me to say America is one nation under God.

It is beneficial to instill in children the notion that there is something higher than themselves, and something higher to which there are many paths.

To give in to the pressure of secular humanists who claim that the "under God" is unconstitutional would be to sacrifice our hard-won notion of a God to whom there are many paths. There is no sense in elevating the belief system of secular humanism and privilege it over every other believe system, especially in a country where 70 percent of the people say they believe in God, not groups of secular humanists.

Except that in your entire post.... you capitalize God. As does the pledge.

This makes it a proper noun. It's a direct reference to the god of Abraham.

You're wrong. It isn't that Americans don't specify a particular path to God, it's that America doesn't require any particular god or any god at all. This is why 'under God' doesn't belong in an oath of allegiance to the Republic. It's a secular state under the law, not under God.... and that law is the Constitution, not the Bible. Man's law, not God's.

Uh huh. I'm sure that's exactly what the knights of columbus had in mind when they pressured congress to add "under god" in 1954. If you don't think they meant the christian god you're just naive. Considering as many as 1 in 5 people don't believe in ANY god at all, having it in the pledge is divisive and wholly inappropriate (not to mention arrogant, rude, offensive, and insulting). It's a fine example of christians forcing their religion onto others without respect for diversity. Not only that, but the words "under god" changed that sentence of the pledge from meaning we would never let the country be divided (by civil war) into a divisive statement of religious affiliation. Would you be fine with it if it said one nation under atheism? No? Then you can't defend "under god."

/clap clap clap Very well said! I agree! Your post too Chip!
-Arti

I kinda miss them playing the Canadian National Anthem in theatres... I've never been terribly patriotic, but I always found it at least somewhat stirring. I don't think it hurts to have at least a bit of pride in your own nation.

Of course, they were evil about it up here, they would play it before the movie started, so it was harder to run away and escape standing to attention.

As for the whole 'under God' thing... it is kind of inappropriate, I feel, considering the United States status as a secular state. Everyone's entitled to their own religious beliefs... the State, however, is most certainly not. They should just re-delete those obnoxious pair of words, and go back to reciting the darn thing. Geez.

Cross,

<<I don't think it hurts to have at least a bit of pride in your own nation.>>

There's nothing wrong with having pride in your own nation. Or at least, thinking that it's the best place to live. That's certainly what I think about the UK.

What I think is wrong is an uncritical subjugation of yourself to the State, and to my mind getting children to chant pledges encourages that kind of mindset.