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Second Life and the Prisoner Dilemma |
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Seamar Radiks
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jan 2005
Posts: 5
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01-19-2005 11:38
How do you guys think the prisoner dilemma applies to second life?
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Pleze Playfair
Registered User
Join date: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 100
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01-19-2005 11:38
huh?
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MrsJakal Suavage
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,434
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01-19-2005 11:38
 _____________________
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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01-19-2005 11:46
It's a puzzle used to illustrate a conflict between individual and group self-interest.
I dug around for an example: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/prisoner-dilemma/ Tanya and Cinque have been arrested for robbing the Hibernia Savings Bank and placed in separate isolation cells. Both care much more about their personal freedom than about the welfare of their accomplice. A clever prosecutor makes the following offer to each. "You may choose to confess or remain silent. If you confess and your accomplice remains silent I will drop all charges against you and use your testimony to ensure that your accomplice does serious time. Likewise, if your accomplice confesses while you remain silent, they will go free while you do the time. If you both confess I get two convictions, but I'll see to it that you both get early parole. If you both remain silent, I'll have to settle for token sentences on firearms possession charges. If you wish to confess, you must leave a note with the jailer before my return tomorrow morning." The "dilemma" faced by the prisoners here is that, whatever the other does, each is better off confessing than remaining silent. But the outcome obtained when both confess is worse for each than the outcome they would have obtained had both remained silent. A common view is that the puzzle illustrates a conflict between individual and group rationality. A group whose members pursue rational self-interest may all end up worse off than a group whose members act contrary to rational self-interest. More generally, if the payoffs are not assumed to represent self-interest, a group whose members rationally pursue any goals may all meet less success than if they had not rationally pursued their goals individually. |
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Catherine Omega
Geometry Ninja
Join date: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 2,053
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01-19-2005 11:48
In case you don't know, this page may help. That said, I have no idea what you're talking about, Seamar. How do you think pi applies to SL?
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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01-19-2005 11:49
Easy.. Ask for some time to consider it. During that time, bribe a prison guard with sexual favors to remove the hands of tongue of your accomplice. Confess.
It's a puzzle used to illustrate a conflict between individual and group self-interest. I dug around for an example: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/prisoner-dilemma/ Tanya and Cinque have been arrested for robbing the Hibernia Savings Bank and placed in separate isolation cells. Both care much more about their personal freedom than about the welfare of their accomplice. A clever prosecutor makes the following offer to each. "You may choose to confess or remain silent. If you confess and your accomplice remains silent I will drop all charges against you and use your testimony to ensure that your accomplice does serious time. Likewise, if your accomplice confesses while you remain silent, they will go free while you do the time. If you both confess I get two convictions, but I'll see to it that you both get early parole. If you both remain silent, I'll have to settle for token sentences on firearms possession charges. If you wish to confess, you must leave a note with the jailer before my return tomorrow morning." The "dilemma" faced by the prisoners here is that, whatever the other does, each is better off confessing than remaining silent. But the outcome obtained when both confess is worse for each than the outcome they would have obtained had both remained silent. A common view is that the puzzle illustrates a conflict between individual and group rationality. A group whose members pursue rational self-interest may all end up worse off than a group whose members act contrary to rational self-interest. More generally, if the payoffs are not assumed to represent self-interest, a group whose members rationally pursue any goals may all meet less success than if they had not rationally pursued their goals individually. _____________________
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Gallinas |
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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01-19-2005 11:50
In case you don't know, this page may help. That said, I have no idea what you're talking about, Seamar. How do you think pi applies to SL? PECAN PI OK... I couldn't resist, beat me with hammers now. Surreal |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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01-19-2005 11:54
I thought they were talking about an old British TV show
 Siggy. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Kats Kothari
Disturbingly Cute
Join date: 14 Aug 2003
Posts: 556
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01-19-2005 11:58
It's a puzzle used to illustrate a conflict between individual and group self-interest. I dug around for an example: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/prisoner-dilemma/ Tanya and Cinque have been arrested for robbing the Hibernia Savings Bank and placed in separate isolation cells. Both care much more about their personal freedom than about the welfare of their accomplice. A clever prosecutor makes the following offer to each. "You may choose to confess or remain silent. If you confess and your accomplice remains silent I will drop all charges against you and use your testimony to ensure that your accomplice does serious time. Likewise, if your accomplice confesses while you remain silent, they will go free while you do the time. If you both confess I get two convictions, but I'll see to it that you both get early parole. If you both remain silent, I'll have to settle for token sentences on firearms possession charges. If you wish to confess, you must leave a note with the jailer before my return tomorrow morning." The "dilemma" faced by the prisoners here is that, whatever the other does, each is better off confessing than remaining silent. But the outcome obtained when both confess is worse for each than the outcome they would have obtained had both remained silent. A common view is that the puzzle illustrates a conflict between individual and group rationality. A group whose members pursue rational self-interest may all end up worse off than a group whose members act contrary to rational self-interest. More generally, if the payoffs are not assumed to represent self-interest, a group whose members rationally pursue any goals may all meet less success than if they had not rationally pursued their goals individually. I've seen this done in Law & Order (my favorite show). How is this related to SL? _____________________
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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01-19-2005 12:00
I've seen this done in Law & Order (my favorite show). How is this related to SL? OMG.. have I got a sound clip for you... Passing it now!! Or Ferran is anyway.... The gesture is Doink Doink Surreal |
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John Prototype
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 84
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01-19-2005 12:01
I thought they were talking about an old British TV show Siggy. Where am I? In the Village What do you want? Information Whose side are you on? That would be telling . . . We want Information You won't get it By hook or by crook . . . We will Who are you? The new Number Two Who is Number One? You are Number Six I am not a number . . . I'm a free man! _____________________
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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01-19-2005 12:01
if that is the boink boink please drop me one also
 _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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01-19-2005 12:20
I thought someone finally figured out that I play SL from the confines of a state correctional facility.
And yes, we have better computers than you do. _____________________
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Jennyfur Peregrine
Whatever
Join date: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,151
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01-19-2005 12:24
I thought they were talking about an old British TV show Siggy. so did I. hmmm... this does make having an island in the middle of nowhere somewhat appealing. _____________________
~Jennyfur~
http://jennyfurperegrine.wordpress.com/ http://slcc2007.wordpress.com/ Deadly Nightshade Design Studio (Indigo 86,61) Jennyfur's Designs on SLBoutique |
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Jake Cellardoor
CHM builder
Join date: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 528
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01-19-2005 12:30
I, too, don't see how Prisoner's Dilemma pertains to SL. One of the key aspects of PD is that the prisoners are unable to communicate with each other. If they could communicate, they could simply agree to both keep silent; it's the inability to collude that makes PD interesting. But I don't see how that applies to SL.
What is probably more relevant is the Tragedy of the Commons. This is the situation where a group shares a free but finite resource (like a field in which everyone can have their sheep graze, a well from which everyone draws water); there's nothing preventing you from using as much of the common resource as you want, but if too many people start doing that, everybody loses (the field gets overgrazed, the well goes dry). Like PD, this is a question of individual self-interest vs group interest. However, there is full communication in the Tragedy of the Commons; everyone could coordinate if they wanted to. |
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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01-19-2005 12:31
In answer to the question I think the thread starter was asking: it doesn't - tragedy of the commons is probably a much better analytical model to start with.
Jonquille, I love your pragmatic solution to the prisoner's dilemma, +10 points for originality |
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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01-19-2005 12:32
What is probably more relevant is the Tragedy of the Commons. This is the situation where a group shares a free but finite resource (like a field in which everyone can have their sheep graze, a well from which everyone draws water); there's nothing preventing you from using as much of the common resource as you want, but if too many people start doing that, everybody loses (the field gets overgrazed, the well goes dry). Like PD, this is a question of individual self-interest vs group interest. However, there is full communication in the Tragedy of the Commons; everyone could coordinate if they wanted to. Excellent observation. So many times I have thought this. Surreal |
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Mike Zidane
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 255
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01-19-2005 12:37
Well, it's got to do with SL in that this is game theory, and -that- certainly applies to SL. I think it's already been just about proven that people in that situation would confess... or rather should confess, based on what the other person is likely to do.
So it's not really a puzzle, cuz we know how this would work out 99% of the time. But all this really tells us about SL is that there are going to be a lot of shopping malls & dance clubs. _____________________
I'm only faking when I get it right. - CC
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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01-19-2005 12:49
How do you guys think the prisoner dilemma applies to second life? |
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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01-19-2005 13:45
this is how its done
Police in Radnor, Pa., interrogated a suspect by placing a metal colander on his head and connecting it with wires to a photocopy machine. The message "He's lying" was placed in the copier, and police pressed the copy button each time they thought the suspect wasn't telling the truth. Believing the"lie detector" was working, the suspect confessed. |
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Chris Linden
Program Manager
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 149
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Tragedy of the Commons
01-19-2005 13:59
I suspect Seamar Radiks was more interested in peoples views related to the Tragedy of the Commons. The Prisoner’s Dilemma is actually an example of Nash equilibria. In the case of the prisoners the Nash equilibrium is for them to both confess. (btw they made a movie about Nash: A Beautiful Mind)
Anyway, the Tragedy of the Commons is: When we maximize our utility using a shared resource we don't take into account the costs of our use on others. In other words this is an example of cost externality. If you want to read up more on the tragedy I would suggest starting here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons Chris Linden |
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Kathmandu Gilman
Fearful Symmetry Baby!
Join date: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1,418
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01-19-2005 14:24
And here I thought it was about a British TV show about a guy being chased by weather ballons...
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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01-19-2005 14:26
And here I thought it was about a British TV show about a guy being chased by weather ballons... Hahaha... "I AM NOT A NUMBER... I AM A FREE MAN!" Torley Sr. is a big fan of The Prisoner. Speaking of, Eggy, did you ever finish that Rover?  _____________________
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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01-19-2005 22:08
How do you guys think the prisoner dilemma applies to second life? who is number 1? you are number 6 i am not a guinnea pig! i am a free man! _____________________
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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01-19-2005 22:21
Anyway, the Tragedy of the Commons is: When we maximize our utility using a shared resource we don't take into account the costs of our use on others. In other words this is an example of cost externality. If you want to read up more on the tragedy I would suggest starting here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons Chris Linden *swoon* ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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