Please stop being prejudiced.

Well I thought I was doing newbies (like myself) a favor by grouping us all together, we who wanted to be grouped. I'd been at the Welcome area inviting new people to join the Newbies group for a few days. It was every person's right to Decline.

By the way, when I'm bored I might jump around and what not. I see others doing this all the time, nobody ever complains. But I got this ...

[_B]: Jon, is there a reason for all this jumping?

I thought that was a little whiny, but so I stopped. Well anyway right thereafter I was told that these group invites at the welcome area were disallowed.

[A]: jon, i have a question
Me: sup [A]
[A]: how can you offer extra special support to newbies when you have only been here 4 days yourself, what would you know, or do you have an alt avi?
[C]: good question [A]
Me: lol I'm not offering support ... I'm grouping like people together
[A]: why would you want to do that??? the idea is to mingle and find their own neiche in sl
[_B]: The welcome area shouldn't be used for recruiting amig0
Me: sure could use a non-newbie to take over my officer spot
[_B]: Gotta let people settle in and just answer questions.
[A]: the residents of sl are known for their friendliyness and helpfullness, not like other gaming sights
[C]: hehe [A]
Me: [A], the Newbie thing gets old after a while .. when people go to remove it, they discover how groups work.
[A]: well, i think you are wrong in putting them in a group when they first join
Me: I don't put them in a group [BTW, when I said this, I was referring to the fact that I only invite.]
[A]: and it is my understanding that sprooking for groups is not allowed at the welcome area
Me: they join up on their own
Me: oh it's not?
Me: ok
[D]: sprooking
[D]: what is sprooking
[A]: yes you do, you label them a newbie, instead of them mingling,
[A]: sprooking is a sales pitch
[A]: i suggest you go and mingle yourslef jon and find out exactly what sl is
Me: [A], just trying to help out... sorry I offended you..
[A]: leave the newbie questions to old residents and mentors
[E]: join my group its cool , ... is a type of sprooking
[_B]: Probably a good idea
[D]: right
Me: k subject dropped
Me: bye

And so I stopped, and removed my welcome HoverText.

And I left.

No feelings hurt. I understand. I was in error. No probs. I'm happy. Won't be doing that anymore.

By the way, I do mingle. I have my less mingly moments, though, and this was definitely one of them, being as I was being shoved away by [_B] and somewhat by [A].

And I very shortly came back and just before I was going to hit the ground I overheard ....

[_B]: Nicely done [A]... I'm not one to crap on anyone's religion, but I don't think the newbie area should be used for religious recruiting or badmouthing the "evils of Mature areas" lol

Oooookaayy... Now I can see why I was being picked on at this moment.

I NEVER, *EVER* intended to use the newbies group to discuss my morals or my Christian faith, nor did I use it for such purposes. In fact, the very first IM to the group was my last ...

"Guys, due to my participation in the forums where I have been expressing concern about access to Mature areas as well as sharing my own religious convictions in a thread, I am being accused of using this group to promote my morals and religious beliefs. Therefore I am leaving this group."

And if you haven't guessed, this REALLY pisses me off. How dare you people presume me to be so focused on such a tiny set of interests?

So let's get the facts straight.

I don't come to SL to promote religion.

I don't come to SL to promote my moral beliefs.

I started ONE THREAD ("One comment about love" relevant to my religious beliefs to share a point of view, in reaction to another thread that seemed to reflect the opinion of many who are bent on attacking my type ("One comment about hate".

I ended my participation on that thread, because I did not want to be further seen as prostyletizing.

I started ONE THREAD in the Feature Suggestions forum ("Kick from Mature areas" to request that people like myself who really would rather not be able to accidentally see any boobies be given an Edit menu option to disable access to the Mature areas altogether, so that I don't have to uninstall the game, because no one should have to drop his own moral values in order to play this otherwise wonderful game. This is NOT an intent to shove my morals down people's throats--I simply do not feel that other's morals (or lack thereof) to be shoved down mine or other newbies. Simply avoiding the Mature areas takes a lot of practice in knowing the map, which is constantly changing and growing.

I'm here to have fun, as well as to remain who I am. I am a Christian, but I fully intend to leave my views about such things in corresponding forum threads or otherwise in relevant in-game discussions.

Please do not accuse me of prosteletyzing within the game until you see it in action, and you'd better be able to prove it wasn't a cooperative effort between all parties involved!

That's just silly Jon. This is turning into a friggin witch hunt. Look, if you disagree if Jon's views, just leave the guy alone. Make a little script that IMs you: "WARNING, INCOMING CHRISTIAN, RED ALERT!".
Jon if I were you I would lay low for a while... SL people have a short memory and they will soon find somebody else to pick on

easing into sl would be easier for you if you didn't play the martyr.

your actions. you should own up to them.

His Grace, I simply do not perform any prostelytizing actions in the game. My profile says something about Jesus in my 1st life section (used to be in 2nd life section though, oops), but that's MY INTEREST and reflects who I [want to] be.

Second Life is full of all kinds of people with varied interests. With the exception of the destructive, rabidly bigoted or just plain boneheaded, everyone should have a place here. Jon seems to come off as (how shall I put this) a bit "square" (crap, showing my age), but harmless. I personally have no problem with his beliefs as long as he doesn't try to corner and preach to the rest of us sinners. Religion is bad only when its used as a weapon or justification for keeping others down.

As for Jon's group, I wouldn't say it was a bad idea. SL is full of newbie groups. I do have to question why he chose to name his group Newbies. Trying to form and maintaining a group of newbies is like trying to lock a fart in a closet. In both caese, they dissipate. Newbies don't stay newbies long. The small group of people I hung out with as a newbie last year have gone in different directions, and a few are no longer with us.

What exactly would you do if you DID see a virtual reality boobie, or areola, or nipple? Are you saying you would lose control of your sexual urges or are you saying your God would find it a sin if you looked at a virtual reality boobie?

Maybe you could sell your computer and give the money to the poor.

Well that was the idea. I figured hey, let's let us newbies share our questions and answers and learn together... And as people drop out, more people come in. Like I said in the dialogue, people have to view the Groups interface and discover how groups work before they can drop out, so I kind of saw this as a cool learning experience for everyone.

Don't worry about the recruiting thing Jon. I've never been much of a welcome areay hanger arounder (how's that for grammar?) but I assume that people were probably using the welcome area for a lot of recruiting for groups and it became a problem so now it's frowned upon. Being a greeter at the welcome area is a good and charitable thing to do but for the newbie group you might want to just post about it on the form and make it open enrollment. A group for newbies to help each other is a great idea.

As someone who was particularly hard on you in the rant forum I want you to know that it's not really personal. I haven't met you in world but I tend to get along with most everyone, even those I butt heads with on the forums. You made quite a splashdown in SL but it'll blow over. Be respectful of others and you'll get the same back from most, but there's not much you can do about people's preconceived notions. I'm happy to hear you don't intend to evangelize here and I've no doubt you'll find many others who share your beliefs you can talk about them with. You have a bit of a minority point of view here but don't let that put you off. It takes a bit of time to get a handle on the community and learn what the unwritten rules are. I definitely don't think anyone should be giving you a hard time in world for things that happen on the forums. Don't worry about it too much though. You'll find your niche.

I'll happily butt heads with you over religion on the forum any time hehe. I try to leave it on the forums though.

Jon, I'm all for you having a group ...religous or not I don't care. What you overheard at the welcome area was wrong of that person to say.

But it is bad form to tag newbies coming in...yes I know its just an invite but most newbies are coming in alone and feeling a lil insecure in a new world and they tend to accept invites very easily.

There are a few groups with massive members from doing just that.

Personally I think newbies shouldnt be able to be invited for a few days till they get their legs but on the other hand when you have groups of people coming from other games its nice for them to meet up and group.

Makes sense, Talen. Agree with all of the above.

"woe is me! woe is me!"

you did what you did.
and you got smacked for it.

and now you're playing the victim.

your actions. own up to them.

* * *

i did not mention anything about prostelytizing. you did. what i said doesn't involve your prostelytizing. that you bring it up indicates where your focus is.

you're trying to distract people from your deeds, by pointing the finger at other people.

* * *

you aren't a victim.

I wanna be sedated

jon - what you need is an alt av. or two or three. they will also come in particularly handy when you need to create a negative rate attack against someone or in my case, have a virtual relationship with yourself.

i didn't read all of that nonsense in the other threads, but let me say that since the vocal readership of the forum seems to have a large proportion of self righteous lefty bigots, self righteous righty bigots don't stand much of a chance.

I did nothing in-game. Quiet, before I smack you.

I actually applaued you in real life for this one.

Jon, its a newbie group, tagging newbies isn't the worst crime. Not like we can't identify them by their particles anyway. Plus in SL we are nice to newbies, I know I am far more tolerant when someone new does something incredibly stupid than a veteran player, so its not like the tag will cause them harm in any way.

All I have to say is if you have strong beliefs and are vocal about them (lets face it, you are pretty much yelling) then people who disagree are gonna be just as vocal. What you didn't mention is under suggestions you have started like six threads. Trying to make SL a better place is one thing, but you have been here four days and have more opinions on how we SHOULD be doing things than I have and I have been here four months.

I made TWO threads about my moral convictions about Mature areas and about my religious beliefs. Don't go making up numbers. The other threads had nothing to do with those things.

As for the Feature Suggestions, don't make feature suggestions a bad thing. I am a software developer, I make user interfaces for a living. I ADORE feature suggestions from users.

I didn't say they were about your moral believes, I said they were about how you think things should be done. You are coming of as a bit of a know-it-all. If you want to be treated differently, act differently.

If you think I act like a big know-it-all, that's one thing...

But that has NOTHING to do with presuming me to be a prostelytizer within the game and treating me with prejudice within the game. You're changing the subject.

Hey, I am not the one that threatened to leave game if my "suggestion" was not met. Do you think those people were giving you a hard time just because having to click a button before they could see boobies is so hard? No, they are giving you a hard time because you are coming off to aggressive and are giving a negative impression. Just calm down, breathe for a moment and try to enjoy the game.

The only reason why I decided not to leave the game is because the script option can work for me.

How can I "calm down and just play the game" when people are treating me with prejudice within the game?! KEEP THE FORUM STUFF IN THE FORUMS.

That WASN'T YOU, Kasandra, and I have no interest in continuing this debate with you because you are not my problem.

Eggy's getting a run for the money on his title.

Jon, when people try to extend olive branches it's a better idea to accept them graciously than to beat the giver over the head with it. Kasandra is giving you good advice. Try not being an ass.

This is just a thought, but I can't understand why people post in these forums and then expect those postings not to have any effect on their experiences in world. In a text based world such as this, our perceptions about attitude and personality are easily and quickly formed from reading peoples' posts; and, I think, not so quickly forgotten once decided upon.

Jon, I don't want to comment on your views, religious or otherwise, since they're none of my business, but you've been here a few days and already you've posted more to these forums than I have in fifteen months.

Perhaps that's a lesson to all of us that if we wish to be judged without prejudices or preconceptions, it's probably wiser to measure what we say to the community more judiciously.

What, "Mostly Harmless"?
I dont understand

I have refrained from pointing out post counts and avatar age in the past to avoid accusations of practicing good ole boyism, but I have to agree with Viola 100%. There is alot to be said for easing your way into a community.

Usually regardless of your belief set you will garner an abundance of friends, and will find they will excercise much tolerance in reference to your values even when radically different from their own.

Perhaps the others who were involved in that conversation were being a bit presumptious, but not any more so than Jon was during his encounter with Ishtar and Green.

Let's not forget that at least one of Jon's thread starting posts stemmed directly from an in-world incident which HE chose to bring into the forums.. Therefore, the indignant demand that people *KEEP THE FORUM STUFF IN THE FORUMS*, is pointless. NN