250 l$ = 90 cents and the SL Depression of '04

At 10:21am GMT today it hit L$2.50 with just 9 (nine) wanted orders totaling 29 blocks... is that interesting enough?

Haha Honestly though... I just can't imagine anyone in their right mind scrolling down that far, seeing that offer and thinking, 'yeah, that looks like a good deal to me.' So yes, maybe it's a similar tactic where in world, people will set their land for sale for $9999999 dollars (not for release land accident issues - intentional parcels for sale that they still live and build on), and hope that some generous person strolls by and does something wild and crazy just for kicks on there. I've seen a lot of land for sale like that, as well as really ridiculous objects/trash laying around. Ah well. Fun to imagine that happening I suppose.

Not for me. You have to look how it pans out over the day, not take a look at the last trade that was only probably for a few blocks and base everything upon it which it appears you're going. Demand is definitely low, the L$ is defeinitely losing value, but let's not take the extremes and use them as some sort of evidence for the sky falling. Even when prices were high some people just played around and you'd see some really odd trades as well. It's pretty obvious that the norm today is way above $2.50/L$1000

It wasn't the difference of opinion, that I was mistaking for someone being worthless.

It was the worthless insinuation that because someone is attempting to openly develop a business model within the boundaries that they should be compared to Enron, a company clearly populated by vultures with no belief in openness or honesty.

Since I'm just tuning in as a new player, I'm puzzled by all the gloom-and-doom messages.

If the land market is softening and the price is dropping, that's good, because new players like me, more willing to take a risk, will be able to buy land -- which I did. I had heard scary stories of islands costing thousands of dollars before I came here -- now I know from experience that you can get a 1/4 or 1/2 sim for a price that really isn't that punitive.

I've bought about 24,000 acres already on the Linden auctions. Will I re-sell it instantly? No, I want to develop some of it and sell it when the price is right, and I'm willing to wait, because I give a game at least the time of the quarterly subscription that I purchased, in order to produce some results. And the results most expected -- entertainment, engagement, creativity -- are the kind that you can't always put a price on.

I quite understand that people who have invested time and money in intellectual creations that they expected to give them a profit or at least a break-even in RL dollars are now getting bitter.

But look at it from another perspective. The Lindens are running a socialist collective farm here, people! They give you $500 a month just for showing up on your premium account! You don't even have to intellectually create. Furthermore, if you park your avatar on some lands, you gain dwell money, and it adds up -- you can even go AFK, like TSO, and be paid, unlike TSO, where you lost, because of having to pay out in food, etc. costs to green up.

And you get 512 acres -- ok, it's not 40 RL acres and a mule, but it's enough to get the dwell thing going -- you can even offer or sell your 512 allocation to a bigger owner so that his tier fees are lowered through your contribution (I would think this would be a much wider-spread practice than it is. I stumbled on it accidently, and I wonder why newbies aren't instantly greeted by thousands of land-rich SL players who need members in group land to lower the acreage allocation and thus lower the tier fees).

So here I am, I'm collecting pogey from the Lindens, I play for a month, I won a few contests just by showing up in drag and then next thing I know, I'm selling 4000 Linden dollars on GOM, and even being a scared newbie and offering a lower price than the going rate, I can still send about $14.65 to my Pay pal account in RL dollars. That about pays two months of the quarterly subscription. I mean, where on earth do you get a deal like that? Game money -- given to you as socialist welfare -- turns into RL dollars that pay for your accounts. Gosh, I feel like I'm some kind of grand beta experiment with a free account here.

OK, to be sure, I have a lot of paper out on my land. I may get stuck holding a bundle. But I'm willing to wait, and not try to dump it on the market at bargain-basement rates, and if it sells, not flood GOM with my Linden scrip, but plow the Linden scrip back into the sort-of economy as investments to promote creativity -- I hope!

Can somebody explain to me what's not to like here? Refugees tend to appreciate socialism like this much more. Remember that in TSO, I had hundreds of RL dollars pouring out the door after months with multiple accounts (required to have even a modicum of creativity and flexibility), and I didn't even get to re-use my Halloween pumpkins from last year which I had saved as rares!!! I had thousands of simoleons draining out the door on buffets and breaking casinos and pop machines, etc.

In SL, I get to fly around and be fabulous, and I'm paid for it by the Lindens and various event-planners who want to attract my dwell and patronage, and I convert it to RL money. Maybe not as much as everyone hoped, but making something out of nothing is a pretty amazing feat on the Internet.

Anshe has a history in this game, and an agenda that is destructive toward those who have called her on it. And she uses threads like these to intermix her well-taken points with that destructive agenda. So the Enron comment had to do with the -fact- that her "business model" has not fallen "within the boundaries".

But -- fair enough. The Enron comment did not reflect well on me. I've removed it.

Welcome to SL Varian



Who told you that? That is totaly incorrect. You get NOTHING by just standing around on your or anyone else's land. If you can convince enough OTHER people to stand around on YOUR land then you may get a dwell payment...



Square meters... not acres.. big big difference.



You CAN NOT SELL you tier allocation. You can contribute some or all of it to a group, but NOT sell.



IT WAS VARIAN, HE STARTED THE CRASH... BURN HIM

The Linden Reserve Board needs to cut stipends and reduce monetary supply. Otherwise the SL economy will be up to its eyeballs in inflation (ie: worthless currency) for a long time.

Cut the L$120,000,000 Linden Dollar supply down to L$70,000,000 or less. Take money out of the world and generate increased valuation based on reduced supply. We are in a currency glut and the population of SL isn't high enough to absorb the extra cash. Its being unloaded and prices are falling through the roof.

Oh sorry I misread that. It was early. But I still INSIST that you watch The Corporation and get some perspective. Life, business, won't be as much a game after you see what happened with DDT.

yes it's a trick so dumb people like me who just wake up will click on it by mistake.

Donovan has a history in this game, and an agenda that is destructive toward those who have called him on it. And he uses threads like these to intermix his well-taken points with that destructive agenda. So an Asshole comment would have to do with the -fact- that his "forum trolling model" has not fallen "within the boundaries".

But -- fair enough. Such Asshole comment would not reflect well on me. Therefore I've never posted it

Anshee is the Greatest Player.. I wish more folks were like here.. We need more Pro-Business players.

Yeah, you'd think the best business player would be selling L$ instead of posting little quips about how others view her business practices. But eh, some like to dig the hole a little deeper before falling in completely.

Nice ski-slope on the L$ - wonder if its hit bottom yet. I'd hate to have to pay large tier fees right now...but of course, I don't.

Completely agree on this with you Maxx. From business point of view is me posting here total nuts

While I stopped keeping stock of L$ since more than 2 months I still have to push L$ on GOM from my land sales, day after day.

But at times the situation for SL as a whole is more important than short time business thing, such as momentary sell off rate for my L$ today.

Maybe it is time to start up a Work Projects Administration and build dams and canals and stuff like that. It worked at least once.

Going way back in the thread, I'm sure that the European discovery of the "new world" was hell on the European land market. And nobody announced that they were going to open a new continent. Oh well.

Well, they did announce it - just not the specific rate. Some people made bad decisions and are now living with their own stupidity. The cycle is complete.

See ya on the flip side when the L$ is soaring again. Cycles, cycles!

Re: Who told you that? That is totaly incorrect. You get NOTHING by just standing around on your or anyone else's land. If you can convince enough OTHER people to stand around on YOUR land then you may get a dwell payment...

Oh, I forgot to tell you! I play with alts! As many as the system allows! And so do my friends from TSO! This is a sacred TSO tradition. And I know various other old friends from TSO and new SL friends. So what with my alts standing on the land where I am *not* an owner, and me standing on their lands where some of my alts are in their groups, etc., we generate cash for ourselves, our groups, each other. It seems to be working fine -- not some windfall, but a steady trickle. Of course I realize I can't sit on my own land -- but hey, I know a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you : )


Re: Square meters... not acres.. big big difference.
Yes...well I can't help calling them acres because they feel like acres to my little self in SL!


Re: You CAN NOT SELL you tier allocation. You can contribute some or all of it to a group, but NOT sell.

Yes, I realize that. But an enterprising land owner could give a newbie a fee for using their land allocation. You can't sell land -- but you can sell your right to give land allocation. That's my distinction there.

Re: IT WAS VARIAN, HE STARTED THE CRASH... BURN HIM [/QUOTE]
Hehehehe...I declare clueless newbie status, I didn't know what I was doing!

Anshe, I think I've just fallen in love with you.

Anshe, I think I've fallen in love with you.


Seriously, anyone -- think "bubble". Think "correction". And inventory the existing resources and commodities against the demand -- and then compare that to the forecasted future growth -- before opening the window and stepping out onto the ledge. There's still a huge potential here.

The other thing that has gotten lost in these discussions is the character of Second Life as entertainment -- the economy here is more like Vegas or the beachfront than an urbanized production-and-finance center. That quality can create great elasticity in both a "fall" and a "comeback" -- but it's also easy to turn in either direction -- using the entertainment venue, and not standard production models.

ed. to add comment.

Hi.

The economy is going down. This does not mean it won't go up again, sillies.

Seeing as this is the most free virtual economy in play in the world right now (minus A Tale in the Desert), I think it's safe to say it's only a matter of time before SOMEONE gets the gumption to take a "risk" and buy up all of the cheap money after the market bottoms out. Then we have another price rise due to the lindens going out of the economy...

Either that or prices raise and we go back to where we were in the first place. BUT. Prices cannot raise too much, or else most content will be simply too expensive for the regular newbie (look at: Project Entropia)

Finally, realize the SL economy for what it is: a large meta-game within the Game of Second Life. If you lost $US4000 by putting all of your money into lidnen speculation and land speculation, well, sorry about your luck. You took the risk, and you weren't complaining when it was working out for you. Now that the tables are turned, live with it.

I'd post about this on my blog, but blogger.com is down.

LF

ditto.

also, maybe lsl has a target l$ to us$ exchange rate and it's just now getting there.

and unless ll makes the l$ supply shrink somehow, the devaluation of the l$ against us$ will probably continue. so why not come up with an idea to make the l$ supply shrink?

You know Alby and I have had our differences in the past however his evaluation of the overall situation is dead on.

As money continues to be generated out of thin air each week there is no finite end to its source. Thus what happens, what we have now happens and will continue to do so.

When the Linden Dollar hits $1 =2000 lindens then the linden has effectively molded itself to the model that LL has forcasted with thier conversion rates.

I know I hear people say oooo there is money sinks....yeah there is and people are avoiding them like the plague.

For instance to stabilize the economy swap the Auctions over to Lindens only for a while and suck out some of the surplus that is floating around.

Maybe add a Teleportal to teleportal usage cost that will centralize economys as people will watch where they teleport to or they will fly there on their own and avoid the cost.

The present model with an endless flow of funds is collapsing in on itself.

The combination of Massive land influx and money influx doesnt ballence.

and with limited things that take money out of the world people will avoid them if they can.

For instance. Creators that have to upload music or images or animations are the only ones other than the mass picture takers that truly contribute to a money sink that LL has established. Especially now since no one is buying land on the auctions.

So basically there is no ecconomic ballence. There is no finite cap on economy resources thus the inevitable downward slide.

Ok I wil hush for now.

Shadow.

<<edited to correct some blatent spelling errors due to my sticky keyboard>>

This statement just isn't true. Linden Lab ONLY add money by way of the initial balance given to a new user.. That is it.

All other payments, stipends and bonuses, are financed by the drains, file uploads, listings and auctions.

The Lindens have said this.

after that, we can start taxing weekly stipends and putting the money into a retirement fund for old avs who've given everything away but suddenly have a big project idea. of course it'll never be used to support them because we'll continuously borrow money from it to offset the losses of developers such as land brokers, club runners and mall owners. that worked once too.

The price of the L$ right now is far more along the lines of what it used to be and what it should be. I would suggest looking at the 6 month chart at gom.com before you post anything about the market being destroyed. There was a SL before the time you came here.