10 Linden Costing Prims

Do you miss the 10 Linden per Prim rule? I never had the chance to experience that, but I think its a good idea. Its especially good for lowering inflation (taking out circulating money) and its more realistic (Whoa, i can make a wooden cube out of nowhere, Boycott lumber companies!). What are your views on it?

I miss the Light Tax. If they brought that tax back, we could turn the Local Lighting option back on. But, until then, that option is forbidden due to extreme lag when it is turned on because everyone has decided to make every prim Light.

I think it would stifle creativity, which is a bad thing. Elaborate builds are already financially prohibitive because of land tier fees - it would be insult to injury to add an L$ fee on top of it for every prim. Additionally, this would adversely affect the market for prim attachments, such as hair and elaborate costumes. There is no upside to adding an L$ cost to prim rezzing.

Or as an alternative they could improve their lighting technology to not be so taxing on the frame rate.

Don't miss it at all! Having to do the business shuffle when all you wanted to do was build really really sucked..

I danced on its grave, stuffed the grave full of dynamite, blew up the grave, collected the bits, incinerated it, then hurtled it out to space.

So no, I don't miss it. At all.



It was a terrible idea that didn't scale very well. If you're a newbie to Second Life, and your main interest is in building (like mine was), you didn't have the money to build. Not even in the sandbox. You could build a few prims, and that was that.

If I didn't go to events over and over back then, I wouldn't have had enough money to build anything, thus ending my existence as a Second Lifer.

If they ever bring this rule back I will scream so loud the universe may very well implode upon itself.

LF

those are all good points, i also am an avid builder, but many of my prims i delete or rebuild 5 times over so my final projects would be insanely expensive, i would never have started, and quickly phased SL out of my gamming choices, we cant forget this IS a game, no matter how many people try to make money (or lately loose i love being able to have my parcel limit and not worry about taxation

DO NOT BRING BACK PRIM COSTS.

Those days sucked, because you couldn't build alot. I remember waiting for my next stipend just to finish the other half of my build one time.

As far as lighting goes, I think that if a light object is going to sit out for a while, it should be taxed. But if it's only rezzed temporarily (so I don't get hit when i'm using my Light Controller ) then we shouldn't have to worry about taxing it. As far as scaling it back, I don't think that would help much, sure it'd help the frame rate, but they wouldn't have the same effects. And making them more realistic would kill the frame rate even more, since most video cards don't like bouncable or refractable light. Everyone just needs to be a bit more responsible when using light objects is the main problem. Swing by Slate sometime, and check out my house. I have a good example of how light can be used to enhance a build from my theatre (it's a picture that will be hanging up soon).

YEAH!!!!!!!

Let's punish builders and encourage everyone to have low prim large black boxes filled with particles (sometimes reffered to as clubs) because... why pay to build when getting dwell is sooo much easier!!!

Great idea!

(the opinions of this poster are wraped in sarcasm and smothered in cynical sauce... Oh yeah and soaked in Rum)

Bring Back The Light Tax!

Bring it back! (and btw, when you de-rez an object, you get 10L back)

Or maybe bring it back in a lesser form, between 1 and 5L per prim wouldnt be too bad

and Sandboxes could allow people to rez as many prims as they want for free, but once they leave the sandbox area, they would have to pay for anything brought out of it

Again, why? For the "economy"?

No.

Leave us builders alone, thanks.

LF

I see it now - the heated debate between the single-prim-scripters, and the builders


and yes, for the economy.

Uhm, no. Bad idea. I didn't get to know this system, but the simple description of it is enough to tell me it wasn't a good thing, and it wouldn't be to give it back. How many attempts does someone need to properly make a build? How many prims? How many tries and errors? If we'd get to be taxed on this already, many people would sure think twice before attempting at building something.

Here's another way of seeing it. You're an artist. You're drawing a picture. Every time you need to take a pencil out of your color box, you need to give 1$ (or 0.5 c, or whatever, it's just to make the count a round number). Besides, anyone who can tell a pencil from their own bottom knows that you can't just "plan on drawing everything you need in this specific color before putting the pencil back in the box and then using color #2, then #3, etc". Would this encourage you to make great drawings full of different colors? Well, me, it wouldn't.

I've seen that in many other games... as soon as there begins to be thoughts of "money sinks", it's systematically at the expense of "fun". Always. You don't deflate a screwed-up economy by "punishing" those who don't have much cash while those who have a lot can just go on as they did before, with money getting out of thir arses.

I wasn’t here to experience the "joy" of the $10L per prim tax, but by what I've heard I'm glad. Considering my chosen profession here usually entails around 2000 prim rezzed weekly, I would NOT want to see this come into effect. If you want to stimulate the economy I would encourage the practice of commerce, maybe a stock market or something of the like. Speaking from my experience with beta TSO this would not work in it's (economy) favor.
My L$0.02

- Sam

Dominion Custom Homes - Poliahu

100% agreed

Over my dead avatar.

Literally. I would quit if they brought it back. I'm a builder, first and foremost. I mess with scripting only as needed to support my building.

It was a horrible, stupid concept.

It would not help the economy. Quite the opposite, it would probably be the last nail in it's coffin. The market for everything except clothes would be basicly ruined, while at the same time the people who design things other than clothes (Buildings. Furniture. Vehicles. Prim-based AVs. Attachments. Weapons. Games. Etc.) would have to raise their prices (twice. Once for the insane cost now of creating an idea, and again to make up for the fact that almost no one is buying their stuff, just to break even with the damn rezzing costs). It would return GOM to the way it was two or three months ago (At least. Quite possibly higher, at least for a while) as people tried to keep enough money on hand to build, and despite what some people who are new to SL think, that's NOT a good thing. That was an artificialy raised market, not equilibrium. In the end, however, GOM would fall as SL withered and died from such a bad system, people cashed out what they could, and got the hell out of Dodge.

It would not foster innovation. It would kill it. People have already danced the low-prim jig building, that horse is dead. Now we're seeing absolutely breathtaking, jaw dropping creations. Yes, some of them have 150-250 prims. So what? If thats what it takes, I say go for it. The 1-prim table, 2 prim chair, and 5 prim house have been done, already. Lets try to create new stuff, not re-texture old crap. Do you really want the world to start going low-prim? I know I sure don't.

It would not encourage people to come to SL, or stick around when they do try it out. They would try to build, which is one of the biggest (Dare I say the biggest?) selling point(s) of Second Life, find out that on a newbie's budget its an exercise in futility, and quit in frustration, and tell all their friends "God, that place sucks, you have to pay through the nose just to make a little plywood cube." Ironicly, this too would hurt the economy your looking to 'boost'.

Alot of the big-name and even not-so-big name tallent in SL would either quit alltogether because its too painful to do what they do, or go into semi-retirement, which insofar as new and amazing stuff beign created would be essentialy the same thing. Not all, sure, but some, and even one is too many for such a hairbrained scheme as prim-taxes.

You can just kiss goodbye a lot of the amazing projects being developed today, on private islands for example. Not many people are going to pay that much money for a huge plot of land or a private sim, and then pay through the nose for the prims to build on it.

It would further create a class-system in SL (Far be it for me to sound like a Marxist, but I don't think it's a good thing in a game that is basicly intended as a diversion), where the established old-time players and those wealthy in RL could (for a time) continue to basicly enjoy SL in a carefree manner while newbies struggle to slap a prim over their head on their First Land plot. The great thing about SL is it's an equalizer... Anyone can make whatever they want (Provided they have the skill)... You could be the porest bloke who could afford a computer and still build the most amazing mansion known to man (Granted, it might only exist in Sandbox, but...). Building contests would be largely dominated by the already-established, furthering their financial lead over others.

If building contests even survived. I don't enter building contests for the money, but lets face it... How many people are going to enter something that cost them 1,500 lindens to rez if they stand to win at most a couple hundred lindens?

So.

In short.

No (insert explative here) way.

Joe paid $9.95 for his basic SL account. That includes a stipend of 50 L$ a week. Joe has plans to build a 25-prim car. If he's charged 10 L$ for each prim he rezzes, for how many weeks will Joe have to save up his entire stipend before he can build his car?

None, because he gets some money just for opening an account, and also the rating bonus will give him far more than $50, plus there's events and stuff.
Imagine actually having to work in order to achieve something! The horror!
And here I was thinking that having some sort of challenge was a good thing in an MMO.

If I wanted to scrape coppers together to be able to afford to do anything, I'd play World of Warcraft, Eggy Or, better yet, I'd just log off, because I do that in the real world alread. That's not why I play Second Life.

A resounding NO!

Not unless they reveamp the whole accounting system again. I am attaching an explanation of just what our account history reflected back in the "good old days".

This was found in my SL May 2003 folder. And following I have copied my History Account from June 15, 2003 when I was barely a month old.

Sunday Jun 15, 2003

Object Create/Claim -320
Land Claim -48
Teleportation -44
Object Maintenance -179
Property Maintenance -1023
Light Maintenance -20
Object Purchase -100
Gifts (given) -4
Gifts (received) 900
Land Release 183
Object Delete 320
Stipend 1000
Rating Bonus 2193

Total 2858

* * * * *

The following was written by Hunter Linden

Account History" Explanation
Hello Residents -

Some folks have been asking for more detail on the "Account History" screen explaining their current Linden Dollar balance. Here's some detail - this will also make its way into the Knowledge Base and be updated over time.

*****“ACCOUNT HISTORY” DEMYSTIFIED*****

Okay, while it’s not quite Quicken, your Account History does provide lots of information about your financial Second Life. Here’s how Account History can help you decide whether you should be pricing posh SL real estate or figuring out how to borrow some Linden Dollars from your best friend.

What is Account History? A summary of your financial transactions within Second Life

How can I access my Account History? Go to the “Edit” menu and select “Account History.”

Is my Account History current? The Account History can lag your actual Linden Dollar balance (displayed in the lower left of your screen) by a couple of hours.

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ACCOUNT HISTORY: SUMMARY
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- Account History defaults to show you a summary view of your finances for the current week

Balance: Your total Linden Dollar balance as of the last Account History refresh.

In some cases, taxes can take your balance negative but only as low as ($1000). Then taxes stop being charged in order to give you the chance to catch back up. Having a negative balance is no fun – you can’t create objects, can’t teleport, can’t buy stuff and so on.

Credits: Linden Dollars gained during current week
Debits: Linden Dollars spent (or otherwise paid) during current week
Total Change: Credits + Debits
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The “Estimates for Current” section displays the approximate tax bill you face for the week. Taxes are a function of the objects and land you own in-world.

Object Tax: Estimated object tax for those objects which you currently own in-world. Remember, objects are taxed based upon their size, their elevation, and the number of primitives in their construction (the building blocks – i.e. cubes, spheres, etc). If your objects taxes are too high for your liking, just delete some objects from the world or pull them into your inventory.

Light Tax: Estimated taxation surcharge for objects you currently own in-world which are lights. These objects will be classified as “light” in the object material panel.

Land Tax: Estimated taxation for the land you own in-world. You can release land you own to avoid paying taxes and reclaim the underlying value of the property.
-----

Stipend + Bonus
Each week you can qualify for a base stipend and then a bonus above and beyond that stipend. These are paid to you by Linden Lab from the central economy of Second Life.

Base Stipend: Every Second Life resident in good standing qualifies to receive a weekly stipend of $1000.

Bonus: Some Second Life residents qualify for a bonus based upon their reputation in-world.

Now, the tricky part. In any given week, neither your stipend or bonus can take your account balance above $3500 after taxes have been paid. So your stipend will pay your taxes, then check if you have more than $3500. To get above $3500, you need to earn money from other sources (voting stations, treasure hunts, buying/selling stuff being some of the popular choices) because that’s what Second Life is all about.

So an example: Beth Sunshine has $3200 and a tax bill of $500. She will receive a stipend of $800 that week ($500 to pay her taxes and $300 to bring her account balance to $3500).

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ACCOUNT HISTORY: DETAILS
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Now that we’ve got the Summary squared away, here’s the scoop on Details (click on the Details tab within Account History window). The “Total” on Details should match “Total Change” on Summary (Debits + Credits). Details provides an itemized breakdown of the transactions which contributed to your Debits and Credits for the current week.

DEBITS
Object Claim: Total of objects created, public objects claimed, objects rezzed into the world (after purchase) and so on. Basically anything which creates a new object or copy of an object in the world charged at $10 per primitive.

Land Claim: Total cost of land claimed.

Land Purchase: Total cost of land bought from other residents.

Teleportation: Total amount spent on teleportation. Teleportation charges are based upon the distance between the two points (hey, it’s expensive to reassemble your molecules).

Texture/Sound Upload: Total amount spent on uploads of new textures or sounds at $10 per texture or sound.

Object Purchase: Total amount spent on buying objects via the “buy” function on the pie menu. Note – there are different transaction types which will lead to an exchange of objects but not recognized as a “buy” within the system. Most of these (the majority involve a “give money” transaction) show up in “Gifts (given).”

Gifts (given): Linden Dollars debited from your account directly to another resident, to a scripted objects owned by another resident (for example, a slot machine) or which you paid out via a script (for example, if you were owner of that slot machine and you needed to pay off a winning bet).

CREDITS
Object Sale: Dollars given to you directly by other residents or via objects you put up for sale.

Gifts (received): Linden Dollars credited to your account directly to another resident, to a scripted objects you own (for example, a slot machine) or which were paid to you via a script (for example, if you won money on a slot machine).

Land Release: Dollars returned to you from owned land you released during the current week.

Land Sold: Dollars earned from the sale of owned land to other residents.

Object Delete: Dollars refunded for deleting (or derezzing) objects. You receive back the full $10/primitive creation cost.

Object Decay Public: Dollars refunded for objects you owned having decayed to public (because they were located on public land) or when you actively released ownership. You receive $4 for each primitive which decays, not the full $10 you would have gotten from deleting the object before it went public.

Object Delete Public: Dollars credited when you deleted public objects from the landscape at the value of $4 per primitive. See, recycling does pay off.

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ACCOUNT HISTORY: SALES/GIFTS
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This tab provides you detail on who gave you money and for what object.

*****OTHER ECONOMY NOTES*****

It’s important to remember that the SL economy is fluid and evolving. When more people come into the world and more land is brought online the “global pool” of available resources increases which impacts factors such as the total amount of money distributed via the voting stations. Also, taxes could possibly fluctuate in the future based upon land scarcity and usage. Our philosophy is not to make changes to the economy “logic” but rather just balance and tweak as SL evolves.


__________________
Helping unlock your Purple Crayon

I dont know if you noticed but those other things that arent SL are usually 10 times as popular. Even though we all find it boring and repetitive, the truth remains that the vast majority of people seem to LIKE "boring and repetitive".
SL is, for the average person, like playing in God Mode. It's fun for all of 5 minutes but then you dont have any real goal or challenge and so you get bored. Normal people aren't creative geniuses, they need to be told what to do, and it better be simple.

Pituca, may I use your post for the history project?

Back in the Good ol' days (or whatever..) each sim was limited to 10k prims and prim allocation was on a first come, first serverd basis. There was nothing to stop some toerag from claiming 16m of public land (yes there was public land) and building 10k of cubes on it (or all the remaining prim resources of the server), thus rendering the sim useless to anyone else.

Well actually there WAS a way to prevent this, it was the prim tax. Every prim rezzed, by creation or from inventry, cost you L$10 and when the prim was deleted or taken back to inventry you got your L$10 back again. This is fine for average type builds, but very few in those days had L$100,000 to claim all the prims in a sim.

Today we have personal prim limits based on land ownership, hence no reason whatsoever for a return to the prim tax. It wouldn't even help the economy as the tax is returned on de-rezzing...

Yes you may Eggy