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Ignore really is your friend. (Post-Mortem)

Kate Hanks
AFK Queen
Join date: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 337
09-24-2005 21:49
From: Enabran Templar
Holy crap. That was by far the most brilliant and incisive analysis of this problem I have yet seen rendered. I'm impressed beyond words, Cienna. You've absolutely got it down to its core, for all to see. I think we have here the definitive word on SL forum drama. Pity the drama queens you lament will see to the locking of this thread.

Until then, though, bravo.


Wow, I thought so too. I guess I'm silly? :confused:
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
09-24-2005 21:52
From: DogSpot Boxer
I'm sorry, I didn't really mean to ask you to name names.

Thank you.


Their initials are.....

Dang that was a clever trap I almost fell for. :confused:

Hey I want to add something I just thought of! Most of the Forum Giants will not respond to a post unless they started it. It is way below their massive intelligence to respond to simple peons. I think they are conserving their brainpower for the upper levels of higher thought which I am obviously not capable of.

Does anyone know when the IQ level increases? Is it at the one year point or do I have to wait until the second year?
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-24-2005 22:07
From: Susie Boffin
Their initials are.....

Dang that was a clever trap I almost fell for. :confused:

Hey I want to add something I just thought of! Most of the Forum Giants will not respond to a post unless they started it. It is way below their massive intelligence to respond to simple peons. I think they are conserving their brainpower for the upper levels of higher thought which I am obviously not capable of.

Does anyone know when the IQ level increases? Is it at the one year point or do I have to wait until the second year?


Tuesdays. You get the IQ bump with your stipend. But only if you are an uber-premium resident. ;)
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-24-2005 22:13
From: Susie Boffin
Their initials are.....

Hey I want to add something I just thought of! Most of the Forum Giants will not respond to a post unless they started it. It is way below their massive intelligence to respond to simple peons. I think they are conserving their brainpower for the upper levels of higher thought which I am obviously not capable of.



Nope, we get more honor points and special armor if we just respond to each other.
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Cristiano


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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
09-24-2005 22:14
From: Kate Hanks
Wow, I thought so too. I guess I'm silly? :confused:


Yes Kate, you are definitely silly, though you hardly need me to tell you that :D
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 07:22
From: Enabran Templar
Holy crap. That was by far the most brilliant and incisive analysis of this problem I have yet seen rendered. I'm impressed beyond words, Cienna. You've absolutely got it down to its core, for all to see. I think we have here the definitive word on SL forum drama. Pity the drama queens you lament will see to the locking of this thread.

Until then, though, bravo.


Thanks. By far, the most amusing part of this thread is the knee-jerk replies by people self-identifying, but trying to discredit the concepts. I liken it to the old 'Wizard of Oz' scene where he's yelling for everyone to ignore the man behind the curtain. All the more amusing for the reality that by replying they're keeping it alive longer.

I do often wonder if the poor inepts understand they are their own worst enemy.

Apparently, (judging from this thread), the answer is 'no'. This too, is amusing. :)

p.s. to Kate: Don't sweat 'silly', dear. One of many parts of 'the problem' is the manner in which some take themselves and this place far, far too seriously. By being 'silly', you affirm your own adeptness at keeping this place in perspective. :cool:
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Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-25-2005 07:26
Oh look, everyone's showing who they have ignored.

Am I on anyone's list yet? :D
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 07:32
From: Emma Soyinka
Oh look, everyone's showing who they have ignored.

Am I on anyone's list yet? :D


Not here. You haven't shown me you're an idiot yet. If you are, get to it and share me some time, will ya? :)
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Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-25-2005 07:42
But I'm not an idiot, just a neutrally inclined smartass who likes poking holes in the established order.

Wait, I guess that makes me an upstart or something? O_o Labels are hard. Waaah!
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 07:47
From: Emma Soyinka
But I'm not an idiot, just a neutrally inclined smartass who likes poking holes in the established order.

Wait, I guess that makes me an upstart or something? O_o Labels are hard. Waaah!


There would have to be an established order before you could poke holes in it.

Looks like you have some evidence to speak about and present... or some research to do, depending upon how far in advance of having the latter you began the former. (grin)

Labels are easy. That's their nature. Not using them is difficult. I only use them here because it is pretty much the only way to insure others understand me.... since they've demonstrated time and time again that addressing them as individuals only confuses them, which them annoys them, so they get distracted from listening in the first place. (wink)
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Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-25-2005 07:50
Don't all places for social gathering have some sort of established order though, however vague it may be? It's human nature, after all.
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
09-25-2005 08:01
Cienna you certainly summed up my feelings on the matter. Outstanding post though I'm sure the subjects of it will never forgive you for it :D
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 08:06
From: Emma Soyinka
Don't all places for social gathering have some sort of established order though, however vague it may be? It's human nature, after all.


Bingo. And those who disrupt the social order are attacked. This is how any social group defends itself and insures the security of the group.

This reality is the one that escapes the social inepts. They think they are either better than or somehow exempt from 'the rules'.

This belief in exemption is, in actuality, more harmful to the social order than the actual behavior that persons holding such a belief may exhibit. A reality that is understood on a visceral level by members of any social group, and the reason that such exhibits are attacked whenever and wherever they present themselves. It is ingrained and carefully nutured behavior, this defense of the social order. And only the true social inept will fail to understand it.

Generally speaking, social inepts are lost causes as they lack an external frame of reference and / or the ability to think abstractly. The presence of a self-referencing ideology insures they cannot integrate external reality, and their inability to maintain abstract logic means they are unable to consider challenges to their perspective.

Which is why, in most cases, social groups tend to dismiss, ignore, or shun them. The process is at once a litmus test for the inept's ability to assimilate or conform and a handy means by which to keep order-damaging behavior from the group.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-25-2005 08:20
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
09-25-2005 08:35
Ciennna, damn you write good! I read second time just for the pleasure of it :)
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-25-2005 08:37
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-25-2005 09:11
From: Cienna Samiam
Bingo. And those who disrupt the social order are attacked. This is how any social group defends itself and insures the security of the group.

This reality is the one that escapes the social inepts. They think they are either better than or somehow exempt from 'the rules'.

This belief in exemption is, in actuality, more harmful to the social order than the actual behavior that persons holding such a belief may exhibit. A reality that is understood on a visceral level by members of any social group, and the reason that such exhibits are attacked whenever and wherever they present themselves. It is ingrained and carefully nutured behavior, this defense of the social order. And only the true social inept will fail to understand it.

Generally speaking, social inepts are lost causes as they lack an external frame of reference and / or the ability to think abstractly. The presence of a self-referencing ideology insures they cannot integrate external reality, and their inability to maintain abstract logic means they are unable to consider challenges to their perspective.

Which is why, in most cases, social groups tend to dismiss, ignore, or shun them. The process is at once a litmus test for the inept's ability to assimilate or conform and a handy means by which to keep order-damaging behavior from the group.

To hell with your social order and your pecking order.

These forums are for ANYONE to state their opinion. Anyone who joins SL gets a key to the forums, and they means they can speak up here on any topic, any time. And should be able to do so without being attacked, and have their opinions treated respectfully.

-"This belief in exemption is, in actuality, more harmful to the social order than the actual behavior that persons holding such a belief may exhibit." - no kidding. Isn't that what Prok was saying? That people were rallying to defend the social hierarchy rather than speaking to the ideas, or the actual behavior of those with those ideas?

-"And those who disrupt the social order are attacked. This is how any social group defends itself and insures the security of the group." - Nobody should be attacked for failing to fall in line with those who think there is some sort of social order and/or group think.

These are the SL forums, where all players are created equal, not the damned Junior League.

coco
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Copper Surface
Wandering Carroteer
Join date: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 157
09-25-2005 09:38
From: Cienna Samiam
Which is why, in most cases, social groups tend to dismiss, ignore, or shun them. The process is at once a litmus test for the inept's ability to assimilate or conform and a handy means by which to keep order-damaging behavior from the group.

Nice concise post and very true. However, I feel it is vital for the evolution of any society that not all assimilate or conform. Nevertheless, when the majority conform to an agreed standard (or is that always true by definition?), the group is inherently more stable and hence peaceful.

Where people are involved noone is truly equal, Coco.
Sad to say, but it's how humans work :/

As a side, are you INTJ, Cienna? ;)
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 12:02
From: Copper Surface
Nice concise post and very true. However, I feel it is vital for the evolution of any society that not all assimilate or conform. Nevertheless, when the majority conform to an agreed standard (or is that always true by definition?), the group is inherently more stable and hence peaceful.

Where people are involved noone is truly equal, Coco.
Sad to say, but it's how humans work :/

As a side, are you INTJ, Cienna? ;)


ENTJ or INTJ, I seem to switch up.

I agree it all needs to evolve, but that is a process that takes more time than this forum will ever see. (grin)

Reification is the foundation of any strong society. That is as true here as anywhere else.

And society does allow for non-conformity, moreso now than ever, though admittedly, not as well or as often as it might. See the first sentence for why.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
09-25-2005 12:10
From: Cienna Samiam
The forum drama queens are all cramped up over the fact they can't make people accept them, they can't make others agree with them, and they can't force others to grant them validation. They wail and gnash their teeth about how 'unfair' and 'unjust' it is and insist there is some required action which 'must be taken' to 'make others' do as they wish or the gloom and doom of all the ages will fall upon Linden Labs and destroy their product, their forums, their lives.

In actuality, they are demonstrating better than anyone could hope the validity of the forum as a self-policing arena. The various whines and melodramatic declarations actively demonstrate the validity of the existing system and its strength in handling socially dysfunctional people and their methods of attack.

If one actually keeps track of who is fostering these little soap operas, one sees they are restricted to about ten people out of the overall number registered. New alternate accounts are added as needed to provide the appearance of support... usually exposing themselves by referencing events or history their registration date demonstrates impossible for them to know.

It seems to be the belief of these social inepts that, if they scream loud enough, everyone will magically agree with them, they will be ushered into the realm of acceptance, and life will be a bowl of cherries. Barring this, they believe if they scream loud enough, Linden Labs will descend from the mountaintop and set them up as endangered species to be cosseted and handled with kid gloves.

In reality, most people don't notice them and when they do, it is with a vague disgust not unlike the feeling one gets when the office mooch shows up to bum another $10 for lunch when they never paid you the $50 they've mooched over the last six months. Or perhaps like the feeling you get when you see some totally drunken panhandler approaching you, their reeking, alcoholic breath slapping you in the face from 20 paces.

These poor social inepts simply do not 'get it' that acceptance is not a right. They don't get it that trying to use guilt or politics to wheedle their way in doesn't work, either. They come up with some of the most amusing and pathetic 'rationales' you could imagine... from asserting that they're 'fighting for justice' to insisting that they wouldn't at all be so annoying and clingy and needy, nosireebob, it's just what about the huddled, unspoken masses who agree with them (only they never actually say so... they are, conveniently, lurking... no doubt in mortal fear of the letters on the monitor screen, which we all know have the power to KILL... KILL I SAY!).

When all else fails, they stand with solemn and pious face and invoke the holy of holies, the ToS.... By the gods, we will accept them or we'll face the wrath of the Lindens!

Pitiful. In every possible way, the social inept strives to wear any mask that will gain them admission. And, in typical fashion, shoot themselves in the head at the same time by speaking out both sides of their mouths... slavering to join from one side and condemning from the other.

And they actually still wonder why no one cares to believe a word they say or why their full frontal 'OH GOD LIKE ME PLEASE AND LET ME BELONG' garners not welcome and interest, but horror and disgust.

Driven to the cliff from which the reality of their own ineptitude yawns in their face, they turn, cornered, to snarl and slaver and attack, acting out and deliberately disrupting things in a somewhat 'dog in the manger-ish' last ditch effort. By golly, if they aren't going to be accepted, then let slip the dogs of war... no one will enjoy... 'No Justice, No Peace', etc. etc. etc. .... (yawn)... et al, ad nauseam.

Linden Labs refusal to be consistant has resulted in an environment where the socially inept are encouraged to act out and disrupt the community, and where the act of doing so insures a cycle of repeated episodes that increase in frequency and invective as the socially inept declare war on the rest of the community.

I know, I know... it's not nice to kick a fool. On the other hand, the fools never really notice the kicking, else they'd learn to avoid it and act in a manner that would gain them the acceptance they are so unusually needful of.... which is, of course, only more support for the pitiful reality that they are, indeed, social inepts.

But no, they're stuck with the party line now... they've invested too much time in it. Any reason is better than admitting they aren't fitting in because... well... they have trouble fitting in.... (they may as well admit it, it isn't like we haven't noticed, is it?)

The worst of all, of course, is the wolfish fervor with which they immediately pounce upon anyone who expresses any degree of annoyance or frustration with the forums. Desperate to have a group to which they might belong, they turn into the most morbid of ambulance chasers... looking for blood not unlike sharks and presenting the most eerie and cultish
'love bombing' and agreement, eagerly stoking the fire of dissent in hopes of gaining another bit of cannon fodder to run point for them.

Most of the targets of this type of manipulation figure it out and run like hell. But every now and then you'll see one, leaning over and panting, with a curiously puzzled look on their 'face'.... wondering how the hell they got duped into the mess. (I stop here to wave to the latest victim... you poor sot.)

Personally, I've been religiously placing folks on ignore for a stretch of time, then removing them in hopes that they've blossomed into normalcy. Alas, I am consistantly disappointed. It's enough to turn one to cynicism. I recently decided that, as much as I dislike it, I'm just going to have to accept that some of these folks truly are that socially inept, they're not going to mature or grow out of it, and I'll be doing myself an enormous favor to just pull the trigger on them and ignore them permanently.

This has been a post-mortem (sorry about the dreadful pun) of things... a clearing of the air and airing of things as I see them.... a great place and time to gag the socially inept and move on.

And so I am.
I read no post longer than my hand.

~Ulrika~
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Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 12:29
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
...


You assume I care. :)
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
09-25-2005 12:50
From: Cienna Samiam
You assume I care. :)
I read no post shorter than my pinky.

~Ulrika~
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Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
09-25-2005 13:14
I must say Cienna, this has been the best post of my SL history.

My hat goes off to you.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
09-25-2005 13:54
From: Weedy Herbst
I must say Cienna, this have been the best post of my SL history.
Well, on that recommendation, I actually went back and read the entire post, despite it being longer than my hand. I am shocked by the hateful rhetoric.

In short, it's a a forceful and bitter verbal attack focusing on a poorly defined group's motives and character rather than the policy or position they maintain. Because the diatribe relies exclusively on rhetorical attacks on position and character (ad hominem attacks), it has a disturbing similarity to ethnocentric diatribes I've had the displeasure of reading in my past studies.

What's particularly upsetting about this post, is that like anti-Semitic, racist, or sexist diatribes I've read in the past, it has a nasty habit of comparing opponents with animals. This is an abominable way of casting other human beings as subhuman and thus justifying their subhuman treatment (this rhetorical technique was extensively used in anti-Semitic Nazi propaganda). I've extracted a few of the worse subhuman comparatives from the text and listed them below, which are used to describe opponents:
  1. wail and gnash their teeth
  2. office mooch
  3. bum
  4. drunken pan handler
  5. reeking alcoholic breath slapping you in the face from 20 paces
  6. slavering
  7. they turn, cornered, to snarl and slaver and attack
  8. 'dog in the manger-ish' last ditch effort
  9. wolfish fervor
  10. morbid ambulance chasers
  11. looking for blood not unlike sharks
  12. eerie and cultish
  13. panting
  14. puzzled look on their 'face' (face is quoted)

Honestly, this is one of the worst posts I have ever seen posted in the forums. There is no room for hateful diatribes riddled with subhuman analogies. It is simply unacceptable.

~Ulrika~
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Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-25-2005 14:07
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
Well, on that recommendation, I actually went back and read the entire post, despite it being longer than my hand. I am shocked by the hateful rhetoric.

In short, it's a a forceful and bitter verbal attack focusing on a poorly defined group's motives and character rather than the policy or position they maintain. Because the diatribe relies exclusively on rhetorical attacks on position and character (ad hominem attacks), it has a disturbing similarity to ethnocentric diatribes I've had the displeasure of reading in my past studies.

What's particularly upsetting about this post, is that like anti-Semitic, racist, or sexist diatribes I've read in the past, it has a nasty habit of comparing opponents with animals. This is an abominable way of casting other human beings as subhuman and thus justifying their subhuman treatment (this rhetorical technique was extensively used in anti-Semitic Nazi propaganda). I've extracted a few of the worse subhuman comparatives from the text and listed them below, which are used to describe opponents:
  1. wail and gnash their teeth
  2. office mooch
  3. bum
  4. drunken pan handler
  5. reeking alcoholic breath slapping you in the face from 20 paces
  6. slavering
  7. they turn, cornered, to snarl and slaver and attack
  8. 'dog in the manger-ish' last ditch effort
  9. wolfish fervor
  10. morbid ambulance chasers
  11. looking for blood not unlike sharks
  12. eerie and cultish
  13. panting
  14. puzzled look on their 'face' (face is quoted)

Honestly, this is one of the worst posts I have ever seen posted in the forums. There is no room for hateful diatribes riddled with subhuman analogies. It is simply unacceptable.

~Ulrika~


Thanks Ulrika, this provides me with something to consider but not relative to this thread. More in regards to a to ignore or not to ignore discussion.
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hush
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