Spy Vendors?

Imagine most shops in Second Life use one vendor machine scripted by a resident of Second Life, say, Bob Biber. This vendor transmit information about each and every purchase to Bob Biber's database. Of course Bob Biber publicly claim he does not use that data, except maybe for some statistic. And he has some friends who say Bob is very nice person. However, if he wanted, he could use one command to quickly see what you bought, where you bought it, when you bought it, how much every retailer earned from sales, what products are most profitable and so on.

What is your opinion about this?

Not trying to take sides here, but this kind of tracking is pretty standard IRL.. they do it with those discount cards.

I agree Eggy, but those cards only capture small part of market and there is usually regulatory body and laws and courts supervising how data is used. But what tools do we as SL community have to make sure data is used properly after it has been collected?

In the UK Bob would be breaking the law, specifically the data protection act. He would have to inform everyone that he was taking the information, and indicate the uses to which he was putting it, and allow (for a reasonable fee) everyone to access the information he holds abuot them. He would also have to ensure it was accurate and amend it if not. He should also have to justify why he is taking that information.

Although I don't particularly have issues with Bob knowing what I buy from vendors he built, I would want to know why he collects the information as well. He has a perfectly legitimate right to collect information about bugs, things that have gone wrong etc. That is an area of concern to him after all, but what I buy is of concern to me and the vendor only.

If Bob set up something like SLExchange where he charges the sellers a percentage he would have a right to know the amount of trade that had been done. He could keep that in a database without any bother, as the traders have signed up to be there and the transaction amount is not sensitive information. If this Bob kept the names and items of all purchases beyond the minimum to ensure delivery then again DPA would come into force. It can be argued that since it is a 'membership' site he can keep this information, but it is a grey area at law at the moment.

Of course the laws in other countries, and their precise interpretations of them may be different.

Isn't a Mall and a Retailer the same thing?

If not, how do they differ?

A mall basically is a building where retailers sell things. As mall owner I know which retailers do business in my building, but I am not directly involved in any buying/selling transactions as I only rent out the space to retailers.

As retailer I sell items to people and setup vendor machines in malls where I rent space. Thus as retailer I have to make choice what vendor machine I choose.

Ah okie, seems more obviouse now. Hehe. Mines fuzzy, need sleep.

Hmm, that's also basically what some ISP already do with the websites we visit...

i don't expect any more privacy in sl than i do on the internet at large. khamon is an id. people only know about me personally if i chose to share that information with them.

why is khamon gonna purchase something in sl that he's not gonna use anyway. possession and use are far more telling than some merchant spreading rumours about what i bought yesterday. hell, that could've been a gift for one of my warped friends.

i'm always explaining to teenagers that, in the real world, everybody knows everything. they're just usually polite about it as long as it doesn't threaten them. you may think you're being private and discreet and keeping secrets. but people know who you are and what you do. your options are to sneak around and be unhappy for looking so foolish all the time, or be yourself openly and enjoy the happiness of knowing your trustworthy friends from the people that won't tolerate you.

gosh it must be monday morning for me to ramble so. i don't at all expect mall owners to control the information that vendors collect and transmit to the merchants. i only expect mall owners to control the number & size of textures in their establishments and the amount of lag caused by the associated scripts.

O how cute, you quoted a CORRECTED typo. You are amazing!

Thank you

There's a line that would have to be crossed before I could start calling sales tracking intrusive. I use a visitor counter in one of my stores (a modified version of the LL-provided counter, partly to reduce lag by decreasing the number of sensor sweeps it performs): every 24 hours that counter sends me an IM (to e-mail if I'm not online) saying how many people have visited the store that day. And the free vendors I use (Hiros) do keep track of what products sell. I consider that sort of thing in the "required tools of the trade" department. The line between "good business tracking" and "being intrusive" comes when, say, people use their tracking to add people to spam lists and such.

I think this thread does highlight an important point - some people (buyers and sellers) are very concerned with privacy.

Last week, I had an item listed exclusively on slexchange as a promotion - it was unavailable anywhere in-world. Anyways, I got an IM from one person who asked when/if it was available in-world. I told him "next week". He said he's wait until then to purchase from me, even though he really wanted the item.

I asked him why, and he explained that he'd prefer not to leave too much of a papertrail. I don't quite understand his reasoning, but I think it is important to acknowledge that some people have an aversion to their activities being recorded.

Unfortunately, the way some systems (such as slexchange and gigas/secondserver) are designed, it's a centralized system. In these cases, it would be irresponsible for the administrators to not log transactions. While I don't particularly relish the thought of 3rd parties knowing my financial transactions, I accept it as a necessity of doing business safely.

Personally, I feel that there's already an excessive amount of information exposure in SL as it is. Look at the leaderboards. You can see how much money the 10 richest people in SL have in their accounts. You can also see the 4 people closest to you in wealth.

Sales Data is good data to have. I dont think there is any intent at wrong doing. More data is usefull to help decide what people want and what sells. Used properly this kind of info can help create a better shopping environment in SL. I download my sales daily from the SL website. Its probably about the same info that this Bob tracks. No need to fear.

DNA

So how can we ensure it is used properly?

If I look at this some data that can be collected is:
- Your character name
- Your IP address
- All your sales in world if you use Bob's vendor
- Most of your purchases in world and online

This mean, Bob might even be able connect your information about SL habits and SL identity with real world information such as your ISP, your employer or in extreme case even your real life name. Bob might also sell information about your successful products to your competitor so he know what is worthwhile to copy and sell in competition to you. Basically, Bob has access to very powerful information.

So, do we want Bob have all that power and trust him to use it properly?

Or should we rather play save and prevent all that data be collected in first place?

Or are there ways to control what Bob does and prevent him abuse data?

Anshe, do you use the streaming music system at all on any of your plots?

My credit card company, Walmart and Quick Trip have this info already, why not a game business?

Because those companies are supervised by government bodies and consumer rights organizations while Bob might only be some hack in one basement who may or may not do whatever.

Secondly, many people come to Second Life because they want enjoy experience separated from their real-life and in privacy protected environment.

Thirdly, even Walmart does not collect data about what you buy in other stores. They also don't record your name, at least if you pay with cash. Where I live, they are by law not allowed connect data on item sales with customer data like names or address. Both must be stored separate and in some way they can not be related to each other.

Not my own stream. But I know what you want say, and, yes I am actually one of people in SL who is not really anonymous. Many other people want remain that though. And I consider my SL shopping habbits or sale data is nobody else's business.

So, the person who's stream you use has my IP address because I've been on your land?

http://www.spychips.com/rfid_overview.html

Your scary nightmare is our future! Have fun!

My reason for asking about the music url is, Alice could easily setup her mall, with a plot of land, frequently trafficited along with a streaming music url, which could point to her server that has shoutcast or some other thing loaded up, she could also have a program monitoring each connection made on that port, and log the IP... thereby logging the IP of every SL user who goes on her plot.

Er, Just saw your above post, but ^ there anyway.

Edit, again, for typo. bleah, I blame spies.

I used to work at a Walmart, and I had to sift through the recepts on drawer errors (on the server) and SMART knows all. c.c

Um, ok, stupid question since when can we confiscate an individuals IP address from LSL?


I mean if this can be done then we have an Issue. Otherwise I think this whole point of this Gesture is moot.

In all honesty these are charatures in a game there is no decernable way to directly link your charature to an ISP or Credit card to my knowledge from LL other than through LL accounting Database which is entirely Seperate.

So, if it can be done the we have a serious RL issue. If as per what I have been told by various scripter friends and LL there is no way to link it together due to LL privacy policy then there is nothing to worry about.

(why do I say this primarly because LL safeguards our RL personal Identity if this could be done by any scripter then we have RL harrassment issues to ensue, and a violation of LL's Privacy policy concering our personal data. )

So I emplore any Linden but Robin or Phillip especially to quell this quickly as the topic itself is leading on a track of a Witch hunt.