My thoughts + feelings on myself, autism, and Second Life

Everyone probably has "asperger's-like" traits or moods now and then. Which is why online quizzes are not very helpful in determining whether or not someone has AS. And even when AS is clinically diagnosed, it is often after a series of frustrating misdiagnoses (e.g. ADHD). In short...it's complicated and often a long and painful journey to become diagnosed.

Being a bit antisocial doesn't mean you have AS. The difference between being antisocial or clumsy in social situations and having AS is like the difference between....feeling depressed and suffering from clinical depression.

Just my 2 cents...

Yah... this has been with me all my life... and will continue to be...

John,

Yes, I am sure it's true that everyone has Asperger traits. But the test is not looking at individual traits, but a character - that's why the condition is called a Syndrome, because it is a characteristic of the complete personality. I think the fact that I have a couple of Asperger traits (and if I told you some of the obsessions I have had in my life probably most people would have me down for AS!) but in fact scored very low on the test, in my view shows that it does what it purports to do.

It's not an online quiz - it's actually a diagnostic tool that is used in medical circles. Not to give a diagnosis on its own, but to help in reaching one, if there is any doubt.

Many people with Asperger's have to wait for many years until they are finally diagnosed. It is very moving hearing people's tales about how they had so much trouble trying to cope with aspects of life that everybody else takes for granted, feeling there was something lacking in them because they could not cope, the feelings of alienation which were made worse because there was no explanation for them. Anything which helps with the process of diagnosis, which usually comes as an enormous relief, is, in my view, a good thing.

Selador, thank-you for saying this.

It was many years before I even ever heard of such a thing called "Asperger's". When the word came to me in '02 or so... it was a real epiphany. While the label isn't all-constricting, it has freed me by helping me to be able to pinpoint certain traits and aspects of my life, as well as allowed me to say "AHA! It has a NAME. I am not so afraid of the unknown." And that's what I'm going on...

Having this explanation has helped me work harder towards interacting with others. Before, I lamely made a number of excuses, and yes... you said it right how I have felt it in my life. *sighs and smiles tiredly*

Wow - Interesting test - I'm a 29, which really surprised me. Could be because I do cryptography for a living and have never really been a real social person but I'm less anti social as I get older. But surprising, nevertheless.

I cannot see any logical reason why you repeatedly drag the question of you being autistic up, and i also don't understand 90% of what you are saying or do. Why do you even keep talking about being autistic? The last time i mentioned it publicly was a day ago, on these very forums, where no one knows who i am, i am not even using my own account to give this info. I also disagree with you using the term "Autistic", this implies low functioning autistim, and if you had this, you would not be socialising on a game like secondlife and would not have the level of mental maturity a normal person would have been able to develop. I recommend you stop talking about having such a slight disorder (which isn't autism) and stop advertising it.
I also don't know anything apart from what i feel, and i don't know what the hell you mean when you keep saying nonsensical things like I guess when you turn off the main road, you have to be prepared to see some funny houses.", i guess it is a metaphor but i don't know what in the hell you are talking about ever, which is annoying because i see other people with asperger's syndrome as people i can relate to but i have no idea what the hell you're on.

Samuel - I can only speak for myself and I am very glad that Torley has posted what she has and has her web page and blog. Before Torley, I knew absolutely nothing about Aspergers and very little about autism in general. Torley has educated many people with her posts and blog and I really appreciate the information that she has presented.

Torley can do the following things i can't, and this makes people expect them off me:
She understands nonsense (this includes metaphors and similes and the like)
She has empathy (the fabled ability to know what other people think)
She knows what is socially acceptable (you foolish humans)
She repeatedly stresses she is "autistic" (i hate having people know, and because people expect so much of autistic people now, i have to tell them or they won't understand)
She can use emotes and understands faces (don't expect me to)
She talks in a way me and my friends with AS cannot understand
She likes to make friends
You can expect none of these things from me, but my ridiculous responses such as your own people expect them off me.

Lindens can we please not do something about this :/

Its starting to upset alot of ppl? There really is no need for it

Can't we ALL JUST GET ALONG

Point taken - but I have to say that based on her blogs and what I have read (because of Torley) about Aspergers, I can understand better when I meet people who cannot do the things that she can.

You are correct, I know jack squat about autism, but I knew less than jack squat before Torley called it to my attention and I started reading about it.

Somehow, I don't believe that anyone can really understand it without actually having it, but being aware of the possibility that someone is autistic can help bridge the communications gap.

BTW - this is not a flame, nor was my other post - just a point of view from my window.

Samuel, I am really uncomfortable the way you have treated me. In addition to calling me a liar, acting openly hostile with personal attacks, and not listening to me as I would listen to you, I was about to post a message to you expressing how I feel and relate about your pain and suffering.

Until... I just found this on my blog:



My empathy is not great, Sam. But I'm trying, I'm learning. It's an uphill struggle, but that's life, and that's part of why I came to Second Life -- to better myself, in hopes of helping others. We're unique, each of us... you, I, and everyone here. Two people with an autism spectrum condition will not be the same, or in some cases, even similar. The only thing I can do is present my positive personal experiences, because life is full of pain and suffering and already has so many problems.

I am open to holding a constructive dialog with you about this, but I graciously request that you refrain from personal attacks and stick to discussing ideas.

Sam, please be gentle, because what you are saying hurts me.

*hugs torley*

I am sorry you feeling this way hun, I am also sorry that sam feels this way, alot of people view things from totally different perspectives, but should respect others points of view.

My parents work with autistic, disabled and children with AS, I do not have a clue about any of it if I am at all honest, but reading your blogs, talking to them and also helping out in the autistic units of many of my countys schools and also being an Educational Drivers Escort *no laffing - i mean on the teh school bus* I have learnt alot, I would still like to fully understand more, but we cannot all be superheros.

I truly hope you both find your peace with this argument, imho its gone too far now

Sam I tried talking to you on yahoo when you tracked me down yesterday, but you just hurled abuse at me, if you need someone to talk to, I am willing to listen, I am not promising I can say anything good, or helpful, but I am always willing to lend an ear.

and Torley hun, you know that go's for you too

I'm not taking sides - but you say in your blog Torley that you don't have any sort of diagnosis - of Aspergers, Autism or whatever.

I am very glad that Torley has so openly shared her experiences, even in the face of hostility- the only experience one can truly speak of is their own. None of us are a representative of anything or a spokesperson for anything, no matter how much others might try to put that burden on someone. Having known not only Torley but others with autism, and seeing the wide disparity of personalities and effects (as Samuel demonstrates), it is important to understand that each person is affected very differently, to the point that they often seem like that have totally different conditions. I watch a dear friend of mine struggle every single day with her daughter's autism, which often breaks my heart to see her dealing with her limitations and the realizations of what her future will hold. Torley's reality is only Torleys - for many others, there is a much more bleak reality, and it is very important to know that in trying to understand autism.

I also know for those who care for Torley that it is difficult to watch Samuel coming at her so strongly. However, I do think that Samuel is genuinely confused and unable to deal with the differences that he sees in Torley versus himself. Do not strike back at Samuel in anger- it is cruel to do so, as they are obviously expressing pain, anger and confusion in the only ways they know how. I can see how difficult it is for Torley to keep reaching out and being struck down with such hostile posts, but again, it comes with the territory unfortunately, and all anyone can do is try to be understanding, and not force our own behaviors on someone who is incapable of comprehending what all of this means.

Thanks Cristiano - you said exactly what I wanted to say but could not find the right words to express.

Yes, that's correct Roberta.

My thoughtlines behind this can be found on a number of online Asperger's + Autism communities. A neon watermelon history, so to speak.

In a nutshell, a diagnosis will be inevitable. It will be more for symbolic than practical reasons, and no one else has lived my life but... me.

I feel there are still some things I must do, some more pages of the book I must write, before getting to that particular level of the tower.

I have undertaken a stark and very sobering view of my life over the last few years, and learning about Asperger's has been an epiphany for me.

There are unfortunately a number of things I'm unable to express through here -- perhaps someday, Second Life will help make this possible as well.

If you'd like to chat more about it inworld, just let me know.

I have several friends who have Aspergers. They tell me that it is a term used for high-functioning AUTISM. You appear to be in denial about your condition, which IS classified as a disability in certain legal situations, American Social Security for one. Torley is different from you in many ways, yes. Thats because of that word SPECTRUM you like to use. Lots of different colors in the light spectrum, yes. Well, there is a lot of different behaviors/capabilitys of individuals in ASD also. Torley is in many ways higher functioning then you are. You appear to be at the lower end of the spectrum approaching more of the actual autistic behaviors of the illness. Your obsession with Star Wars is an obvious indicator of Aspergers. Well, Torley is obsessed with watermelons ( ). She has escaped/overcome the tendancy that Aspergers has to make some people behave like asshats. One of the more unfortunate aspects of the illness. Maybe when you get out of your denial, you can actually make an effort to work on overcoming this aspect yourself. It CAN be done with effort. One of my best friends with Aspergers used to be a true asshat, but with counseling and working with friends and family he too overcame this. Not as well as Torley, but he became a lot nicer. I will be rooting for you.

I do admit to being quite the asshat, once upon a time, Devlin.

Self-improvement may only go so far, but when it works, it works wonders.

There is not doubt that Samuel Biggles suffers from AS. There is no empathy at all from him. Maybe we cannot expect this of him? Just a thought.

Torley you know I love you. It doesnt really matter one fucking way or the other to me whether you have AS. As I have stated before I have bi-polar, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder along with a shit load of other conditions (formally diagnosed and on SSD and SSDI in the past because the condition is so bad and am currently waiting for approval so I can get helping paying for my fucking $1000 a month medication bills.) Ask my wife I am a handful and it is quite the struggle. I have been hospitalized over 10 times. But these labels are silly. I read the DSM-IV as well but think we should take such clinical categorizations with caution. Why is the DSM-I so radically different than the DSM-IV? We are the test subjects. We will act and feel the way we want. It is not our job to explain why this does not fit the criteria but rather the clinicians’ job to broaden the diagnosis.

Torely keep it real! You speak from your heart and that is a beautiful thing. Samuel I am sorry you feel Torley is somehow given people with AS a bad name. But I have to ask you why are you so hung up on the diagnosis criteria yourself? Maybe I am missing something. I worked with 6 autistic adults for 2 years in the 90’s at ACRMD in Brooklyn and have a fairly good understand of the disorder. I know it is difficult and wish you the best of luck Samuel.

Please forgive me for sloppy writing and bad grammar I am so high and just don’t really care.

LOL... it's about the spirit, the spirit... and the good vibes that roll. SUN-RA!

One Love, Darko. ^_^

TORLEY I need to send you the song today. Please remind me in an IM what service to use, how and where to send it. SPACE IS THE PLACE!

Darko flashes the W!

Hi all

better late than never.
Samuel I have been "Officially" diagnosed with a milder form of ASD by a professional but do you see me go after Torley because she hasnt been given an official diagnose? NO!
Torley is a wonderful person and I can only wish I could write like her to open ASD and other Autistic spectrum disorders up for people who are genuinly interested.
As Torley I am trying to work on my problems and Secondlife is also helping me practice and work on improving myself in various situations.
As several people stated each person with ASD or any other type is unique, but to me an "Official diagnose" doesnt give you the right to go after someone that has not recived one.
Please Samuel calm down and let us all live in peace with eachother.

Serena

Ah, I see now. I looked at the site. I should have looked at the darn thing before I opened my mouth.

I was worried that it was a simple "quizzilla-type" thing, and was concerned that people would use it and get misinformed. You're right, it's very comprehensive and could definitely point people in the right direction to get further help. Thanks for clarifying this.

I think one of the more positive things that has come out of all this mess is that more and more SL residents are "coming out" as autistic. It was my gut feeling that there were many of us out there, but in a way it is nice to be able to go "You too? Cool!" when you meet someone.

(Off-topic: One Asperger trait I have noticed is the tendancy to avoid introductions and go straight into the "I've known you for ages" mode of treating people - and SL makes this easy by removing the need to ask for someone's name.)

Yeah, I'm really happy to see something positive come out of this... and ya know:


-you know what they say about "all publicity is good publicity"... not that I wholly subscribe to this myself, but as a fervent ex-obsessor of tabloids, I have seen what happens time and time again

-firing when cloaked! This, of course, is a wonderfully geeky Star Trek metaphor.


Funny you say that Lisse, because yuh... I do that a lot. Like the times I've met some notables in SL (you know who you are), I went right up and started touching their creations and fawning over them. I can't help it, but if I'm gonna do it, I'd rather people smile and be amused as opposed to "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY SKYBOX??? GET OUT!!!" which, thankfully, is not what Francis Chung said to me upon our first encounter.

I can assure y'all some things about me are not mild at all. But anyhoo, I'm here to listen, so feel free to share other constructive thoughts + feelings on autism, humans getting along, and how it relates to SL.