Issue Rehash: Second Life MUST be an enjoyable place for the Average Person

you could say exactly the same of any thread, topic or poll in these forums. The forums are not representative of average users. Period.

Excellent! Thanks, Pathfinder.

If you want it to be more enjoyable for the "casual" player, all you need is:

1) A decent chat environment (more avs in a sim without it lagging to hell)
2) *Easy* customizability (already 80% there anyways, although the lindens would be keen on integrating some of the more clever ways of customization, like animation overrides, directly into the SL client)
3) An easy way to create content (already there... honestly, if it were any more easy it'd be legos)
4) Less lag and fewer bugs.

The last point is the lynch pin. You NEED a stable client that "just works". Were I not a hardcore SL addict, I woudln't have bothered flashing my BIOS, getting a new case fan, upgrading my motherboard drivers (I didn't even know mobo drivers existed prior to problems in SL), fiddling with my in-home network, and a myriad of other problems that SL seems intent on cropping up every version to different people.

And the login server.. seriously guys, please fix that Rip it out, add a mainframe to it, whatever, just make it smooth and inviting.

Your main intention is to, in the words of Microsoft's new corporate mantra, make it "just work"/

LF

Its true most users do not go on the forums.

It requires a a considerable amount of reading in a format thats not really that easy on the eyes, a considerable tolerance for forum culture, and an interest to see what other forums users think.

Also many would prefer enjoy Second Life then to read about it and comment on it.

A lot of people get by just fine without them.

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As far as content and making money , and spending money.

By doing even the most basic shopping it is possible to aquire a HUGE ammount of free content.

Everything from Basic animations, clothing, houses, apartments Are all free.

Clubs still basically are all free , you may even make a little money going.

Same with Tringo/Slingo

There are many Free and reasonably priced activities that I think many peopel would call fun (Sky Diving one that comes to the top my my head)

When we talk Average user .. i assume we mean one on just a basic stipend? So either had $750 + $50 a week , or $1000 + 500 a week?

Thats a considerable amount for just basic activities .. Since for free you could build up a wardrobe that could stuff most RL closets, attend most events , do a lot of exploring, and even practice building.

Now if they want more Advanced Content .. well sure they need to compensate the people who have spent valuable time making things that are of higher virtual quality, whether form or function. Thats just common sense.

As far as adding free money into the game, that will drive prices through the roof, since these content creators value of time will not change , but you will increase the amount of money in circulation. Its the old .. cant print money to get out of debt arguement.

The Newbie island idea in the other thread sounds like it may solve many of the problems gettign users feet wet in Second Life.

sl is too cluttred i go in to a area it could be a store it could be a home who knoes what it is some area just arent populer or know of becuase some times its just a box to be truley effective you need a set up like cubbeys. its well organized it tells you what it is and how to use its products and also you its easy to navagate.

the biggest problem is sim crossing and the vehicle system at present it really encourages teleporting rather than exploting the world.

lack of airports and parking lots play in to this too.

what all this means is if you have no reason to leave and explore because its not organized and travel make the game frustrating at times

To clarify - either or. By "average user," I mean the average John Q. Public on the streets of Second Life, with average intelligence level, potential to succeed, and (limited) technical skill.

In other words, people that might contribute content to Second Life, but are not there purely for this task. Rather, they're here to enjoy themselves, be that socially, economically, or just by buying a lot of stuff. You can draw your own conclusions as to what money they bring to the table.

Hmmm .. shopping is as easy as going to the FIND .. places .. typing in a keyword like "hair" and pressing Teleport. Its like google. We have to assume the average user can do this much.

The real problem isnt finding stuff .. its comparisson shopping and staying in your budget, becuse the selection is HUGE.

I am going to sound like a broken record when I reply to coco because I bang on this drum all day: the biggest problem limiting opportunities for non-creative users is structural, not attitudinal (lol if that's a word)

LL provides a platform, and users generate content. How do other games/companies create content? They have TEAMS of permanent and freelance people.

Without an infrastructure that enables collaborative teamwork, you end up with a universe primarily populated by sole proprietorships and the limitations therein.

When I mean collaboration, I mean making it easier for people with different assets to come together: investors with money, entrepreneurs, artists, scripters, salespeople, marketers, customer support, etc.

It is too risky to jointly create an asset, too risky to have an employee-employer relationship, too difficult to have an exit strategy (sell all or part of your creation).

Currently, the only way to mitigate this risk is to work through close relationships and referrals, which inherantly leads to a guild-like system that Prok rails against. Now, relationships drive ALL business, but it is a question of levels.

I can point to examples of teamwork, employees, and even the sale of a business within SL, but those examples are very much in the minority.

Linden Lab needs to go beyond improving sim crossings and bugs and sim performance -- they need to provide the tools -- the INFRASTRUCTURE -- that really unleash the entrepreneurial and creative energies of the SL populace.

I've heard some hints recently in Philip's public comments that he is thinking about this, but LL's design choices and thoughts are really a black box to me right now.

not really you can find a lot of stuff with google. you dont find rare finds like the sion shield. yea i can find generic items easy but people best arent even advertised its just out there.
or has anyone seen/flew by the green lantern headquarters lately (besides the peole that live there)

find isnt a great tool some places dont explain how their stuff works. i can find hair and clothes any where.

then you have names that arent even close to what you are looking for. if it was like google it woulndt be a problem.

1. ”When we talk Average user .. i assume we mean one on just a basic stipend? So either had $750 + $50 a week , or $1000 + 500 a week?”

Wait a minute – where are you getting that $750 + $50 a week? I haven’t noticed that. I have noticed $50 plus some varying amount of bonuses, none of which seem to have ever come to $750. Am I missing something here?

As for the free stuff available, I agree, and yay! I have had oodles of fun collecting free stuff, PROUDLY wearing and using free stuff, and spending hours organizing my free stuff in my inventory! I love my free stuff! It’s half my game, lol!

Ditto the free and low-cost activities. I don’t KNOW of any other game that provides such a variety of wonderful, imaginative things to do – from skydiving to fishing to treasure hunts to amusement parks and castles and baseball (once someone makes that for me, and please hurry up, lol).

2. “Surely I will. Inflation. K? No? Then what else do you think will happen to the economy when mindless pizzamatics are handing out money to anyone who can click buttons for a while?”

Yes. And indeed, I have given a lot of thought to this. I was at a wedding in Austin and met this guy who works translating games into MAC (I believe). Anyway, we were discussing this (and SL in particular, which he doesn’t play or work on), and his point was that artificial interposition of money into a game eventually causes the game’s collapse, through inflation, or, as I would put it, a sort of form of entropy. Hence the need for money sinks. And still, I would add, that is a tricky balance to achieve, particularly since the average savvy player can easily avoid the sinks and accumulate the money. And, I would add further, when that money is being bought and sold for rl money, as in this game, the danger becomes even more acute, and the stakes higher, with the likelihood of speeding up the entropy into a disasterous, quicker, total collapse.

And yet. I would posit that THERE HAS TO BE A WAY for players to make money by clicking buttons for a while (or its dressed-up, more fun equivalent). Otherwise, there is no game for all those players. We have to assume a playing base of people who start off being able to do nothing more than click their keyboard. Those people have to be kept around until if and when they want to and can learn to do something more. And this limitation – of not being able to earn money – actually limits content, as I will get to in a moment.

3. “Oh, you mean USEFUL jobs. Ceate content. *shrug* What else do you expect to get payed for? Being charming? Isn't gonna happen. Not from LL at any rate. Have you considered trying to make money without LL just handing it to you? I don't even mean content creation. There are players and content creators who pay for services, too. Of course, you might have to work hard, or maybe do things you would rather not do... But, ya know... That's kinda what a job is all about.”

Too simplistic by half, and not imaginative enough. I have barked up a lot of trees in this game, trying to figure out how to make enough money to ultimately do what I might enjoy doing in the game. There is no support for any of it. No real way to win at anything BESIDES creating physical content (or buying and selling land). That is the problem.

For those who wish to bear with me here, let me give an unfortunately long example, using myself in TSO.

One of the things I did in TSO was the Game Show Channel, where people came to play the Family Feud, Match Game, and others. Modest amounts of prize money were given for these games, including smaller consolation prizes. The prizes amounted to somewhat more than you could earn in the same amount of time by making gnomes, and generally a fair amount less ($500) than you could earn in the same amount of time by making gnomes, in the case of the consolation prizes. But everyone got something.

Prize money was important because the games needed a fair number of players for every round (we did them for 2-3 hours, twice a week, on Tuesday and Thursday nights). There were wealthy players who played for fun, but also quite a few who were much newer players who would have felt guilty if they weren’t getting SOME money for their efforts. It goes without saying that they also had a lot of fun doing it, but you know, ambitious worker bee Sims (AV’s) just have to be doing something productive.

The same thing is true here. All the games need prize money.

So, now, how did I do all this? Did EA hand it all to me on a platter? No, but there was a clear path by which I could achieve it, if I worked hard enough. First, I had to skill up my Sim. Then I had to make enough money to afford a size 8 lot (something over 250,000, I believe). That alone took a couple of months, and I wasn’t a new player – just doing something new in a new city. I also had to have enough money to furnish the lot with the studio, greening rooms, etc.

I designed and built the lot. That done, I had to amass a nest egg of enough money to sponsor the prizes for a time, at least. And feed everybody, lol. I amassed enough money for several weeks of game shows - no, I think it was more than a month's worth. Then, of course, I had to research and collect all the games themselves (the question items, etc.), and, of course, advertise them, and host most of them.

After the initial several months’ work, the project was self-funding from then on out, as a number of players loved it so much they donated to keep it going. (In other words, I literally got paid for being charming, lol!) I kept a list of the donors on the marquee. I never again had to work my butt off to provide prize money, so generous were the richer players who wished to sponsor this sort of successful and fun entertainment for Alphaville.

When we finally stopped giving games, after over a year, because a new city was opening up I wanted to try, and because I was tired of – but NEVER BORED WITH – giving the games, I still had well over a million in my Alphaville account.

The professor (SL Herald) suggested I come to SL and do Game Show Channel here. Yes, that would be a wonderful service to the players, and add a lot of fun to the game. So I considered it, even though I was tired of it, but dismissed the whole notion within days of getting on SL.

Why? Because there was no path to doing it. Aside from spending lots of rl money, which I can’t afford. I did Game Show Channel for $9.95 a month, remember – along with the whole REST of the game and the OTHER cities I lived in and played in and had projects in for that amount each month.

Not asking or expecting it to be the exact same way here. But the fact is, there IS NO WAY to do it here. I can’t do it through diligence, dedication, or motivation. It just can’t be done. Because there is no way for me to “click away,” for months even, to earn the money to do it.

So the distinction between “giving people something easy to click on” versus “providing content” is a false one. For many, many, many imaginative ideas –the Game Show Channel is just one of these possibilities - unless there is “something to click on” to begin with, the content will never be made.

3. As to events and also neighborhood and community ideas, these are separate topics, I believe, and so I won’t add my ideas about those here.

coco

Jesus, Prokofy. Just take your prozak and give it a rest.

~Ulrika~

He's pretending to have conversations with his own alt to churn the forums.

~Ulrika~

For GOD'S SAKE, Ulrika, GET A CLUE!

coco

I love how Cocoanut and Prokofy always manage to find each other to provide mutual support in not just the same forums, and not just the same blogs, but at the same times as well! Fascinating. Wierd. Creepy. Hmm.

http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=508
http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=513
http://www.alphavilleherald.com/archives/000528.html
http://www.alphavilleherald.com/archives/000533.html
http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=662

You're damaged goods Prokofy.

~Ulrika~

Look. I said it before in a long post. I even put your quote in my signature for a time, though that sort of thing isn't generally my style.

I am not Prokofy. More reasonable minds have figured that out now. I consider this harrassment.

Get it? Leave me alone, and stop accusing me of being another player.

coco

Of course. And we apologize for the accusation.

On an unrelated note, Prokofy, have you considered my suggestion to post to the Linden hotline giving them permission to reveal your alts and asking them to do so? It would be a great way to put some of these Feteds in their place. If you have as of yet unknown alts you could phrase the question like so: "Lindens, I give you permission, and request that you confirm for the world that I am not Cocoanut Koala."

Get together a group of people who'd like to do it. Pool your resources. Structure it so that it makes money rather than loses it. Charge admission. There absolutely are paths to doing it in SL, but not if you're not willing to invest in it. If you're not willing to do that how can you fault others for not providing it for you? You have ideas but lack funds. Other people have funds but lack ideas. Work together and make it happen.

More off-topic harassment is on its way.

Let's look at it statistically.

Both you and Prokofy craft atypically large posts with the same relative frequency. I'd estimate that both you and Prokofy are in the 99th percentile of maximum post lengths and in the 99th percentile of post standard deviations.

Both of you almost always have common points of view, which is also extremely rare. I'd estimate 5% would regularly agree with Prokofy, although I can't really think of anyone but you. Further, you are genuinely respectful of Prokofy. I'd estimate 5% would regularly be nice to Prokooky, although I can't really think of anyone but you.

You tend to show up in the same threads and blogs at approximately the same time. I can't even put odds on this but I'll just throw out a 50% probability to be nice.

The odds of you being Prokofy is just one minus product of all these probabilities (assuming they are independent). Thus I predict that with (1-0.01*0.01*0.05*0.05*0.5) 99.9999875% percent certainty that you are Prokofy.

You know what else is harassing Prokofy? Listening to you endlessly troll and churn these forums with your alts. Do us all a favor and go back to TSO.

~Ulrika~

There is one small flaw in your plan, Madame Butterfly. An alt account can easily be created with two different credit cards, with different names or addresses. It is often very difficult to link them, even for LL. Even duplicate IP addreses don't necessarily point to it being one person (they could be luvahs!)

At the same time, even with permission, they won't disclose the alts. When Anshe was on a rampage about me being Mia Lament (which still amuses me, her only evidence being someone neg rated her for the 8 billionth time), they would not even privately confirm with my permission that in fact Mia was just someone offended by annoying signs.

Ulrika will just keep fighting the good fight. As they say, the devil is in the details. It's fascinating to watch though - you haven't seen anything quite like it since the Alby alt triumvirate.

I am in complete agreement with Ulrika. Her statistical intuition is right on and has lent credence to the fact that we might all be suffering at the hands of a trolling sadomasochistic forum stain.

Please don't accuse me of being Ulrika. That would be harassment.

~Uma~

I will kowtow to you (Ulrika) when it is revealed that Prokofy and Coco are actually your alts.

When you actually PAY for the basic account you get a total of 750 dollars ... 250 from first creation and 500 more for paying your $10 US.

After that is $50 a week ..

So your money to starrt up you AV is $750 , additional income is $50 --- for the lifetime one charge accounts assuming no additonal income.

The $10 a month plan is $1000 start up and $500 a week, I believe.


I was under the impression these Lindins people bought with US$ were being SOLD by other players, is this correct?

If that is the case , then , it is not contributiong to inflation.

If its not then , yes it will cuase inflation .. BUT .. Lindin labs will profit by it , much different then them handing out money for clicking buttons.

I think Chip Midnight pointed out on another Thread that those games where you get money for just playing .. you already spend your monthly fee. Completely unlike the basic membership.

I think a player could EASILY survive on $500 a week, since you cant starve

I guess you're right. I am just so tired of all these alts like Amy Weebler. SHE is obviously someone's alt.

Yes. At no point in a GOM/IGE transaction is money ever taken out of or put into the world.

Dear Mr. or Mrs. Aimee,

I have just filed an abuse report against you.

Yours Truly,
Amy Weebler