Dont Remove Phantom Avatar 'Bug'

Oh please, Mol. You can't hide your av from the radar, and if you can't spot someone using an invisiprim you're doing something wrong.

I agree that it should be a feature that can be turned on/off at some level of granularity.

The land panel would be a quick and useful place to do it. Also, it might be nice to control it on the prim level. That way, you could easily combine different levels of phantomness in a single build.

I doubt very much that there can be an "allow phantom" feature on land. This seems like an integral part of the rendering engine.

I think that arguments for the phantom bug based on "it helps with griefers" and "you don't crash into unrezzed land" are silly. I say this because it is avoiding dealing with the real problems.

Consider the phantom bug can just as easily be bad in these circumstances:
- Griefers can use it to get past your walls. (And yes, we should seal up the "sit on a block and move it" exploit, too, by allowing a "no modify" toggle in the land options) It's your land; you should be able to build walls wherever you damn well please as long as the neighbors don't object.
- You don't interact with the land as intended. If I build a skyscraper, you know what? I spent my prims to make it high, and I WANT people to bump into it, and notice it. If you can't get to a place because of interfering prims, that's a problem that is between one landowner with his neighbors.
- Another way people can cheat in games (already mentioned)
- You can fly into an unrezzed building, and have it rez around you, trapping you. This has happened to me countless times and it is far more annoying and time-consuming that bumping into a building and having to go around.

im sorry you feel that way...but LL needs to allow SL's technology to grow..not cut it down and let it grow to the same level..the phantom bug will be repeated in next update and has already been figured out on the play test of the next version. sorry to say but removing this will just make it so that only griefers will have it for a time. yes, you can go through walls..so can pushguns and homesecurity turrets and my guns...soooo 'ghosting' is completely useless as a shield. if you want a test just IM me i dont mind shooting people at all to prove a point. besides once you eject someone with a phantom AV or just freeze them..they get there SL client MESSED up. almost always a crash so truly its not very tactical and is mostly useful for flying if at all. and besides banning someone will stop them from getting on your prop with a phantom avi better then a non-phantom avi. it's thought of as a double-sided coin but really it isnt that effective for griefing at all, i enjoy blasting phantom griefers and with this update..there may be no way to shoot them in the next version.

Doesn't matter to me if it gets removed or not. To avoid getting stuck in buildings, I just wear scripted speed wings or a jetpack, spend that extra 2 seconds to fly up to an altitude above the buildings, then shoot across the sim to where I need to go. Don't need the phantom thing.

A collisionless avatar is not a feature we want to support long term. It ruins a large class of content that we think will be important to SL.

Some have found it a useful workaround for existing problems in SL, however we'll be trying to fix those problems as soon as possible.

Oh shit, I better clean up my crap...er... construction site... been sitting there for months, and months, and... well, oh man they go by fast!!!

Official appology to all, especially my neighbors!

No Snow Crash's "The Street" then

well..that sucks...
but it's not a democracy so..oh well..
will llVolumeDetect work the same for non-attached objects???

I have read about but haven't used this bug, it seems useful.

With every good there is typically a bad!

The bug leaves room for players to cheat in certain games and is something that will/can be used to enhance grieving........

I hate running into unrezzed buildings and objects just as much as the rest of you, but we have survived this far and I think we will make it if this "feature" were fixed.

Ok. I keep re-reading this thread, and I'm still confused. Sorry.

Does this bug fix mean that I will no longer be able to pan out, find a surface to sit on, and get out of where I am?

If yes, ok, I can see it fixes game cheats. But I am so very tall, and let me tell you, rezzed or not, I get stuck in some VERY weird places. And many times, without teleporting and starting over, this has been my only option to free myself. *blush*

Anyway, just curious if I am on the right track with understanding what bug this feature fixes.

Actually, not a bad idea? A main highway where collision is turned of in favor of crowds and travel? But... it's not really necessary anymore, is it, I mean, our computers can handle the collisions fine now-a-days. It’s the downloads that take forever! Well with me they do… really slow connection….

Still really like the idea of a “street” that’s the center of everything… kind of community location that can handle the masses. Perhaps it has to have features turned off so that thousands can attend at once, but the mass of bodies would be totally cool!

No no... The bug that's getting fixed is something where people could turn themselves "non-solid" and fly through walls and such.

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To the rest of you: You did without this bug for a year+. It's only been known for MAYBE a month and a half. You lived without it before the bug was found, you'll live without it after it's fixed.

well at least LL bothered to let us down.

Well, there may be more here than meets the eye. When you start allowing these kind of exploits to stay in a system, its a bad precedent. It CAN be abused, and IS a bug... not a feature.

Hopefully Andrew's comments on fixing these issues will happen sooner rather than later!

I also have a hunch that this specific one may have created problems down the road... maybe with Havok 2 or something? Just a total guess.

-Flip

This may be true, but it got me thinking...

SL is something unique. And yet it runs on Havok, which is not unique.

Ultimately--I'm talking way in the future--maybe it needs a custom physics engine.

hehehehehe, well... the jokes are already flying about that Havok 2 will be in SL about a week before Havok 3 is released.

A custom physics engine is sort of reinventing the wheel, and its a REALLY big wheel. Maybe someday WAY down the road... but for now, give us Havok 2 and we'll ALL be happy for a while.

Regards,

-Flip

Ok, I understand the complaints against this feature, and I understand the complaints about the "sit teleport" hack... I definitely understand and highly agree that it ruins a large class of content. I can't wait until things permit us to make more strictly controlled environments, and of course more games! Games and interactivity that are quite simply the next logical step. BUT, please, please, dear god please, give us an alternative. Anything.

Flying through half-rezzed buildings is a genuine problem. I have been stuck in many, many situations, as have many, many other people. Many where I would have tried to fumble through stairs and hallways for many minutes just to get out had I not been able to crane the camera around and sit teleport, or use a phantom script.

I think many people would be upset if this was taken a step further and "sit teleporting" was fixed without giving us an alternative way to move avatars from point A to point B, some, ANY kind of scripted teleportation. AND, if both of these features are removed any time soon, I hope we have some alternative. Otherwise it won't be long before someone just creates a large contiguous wall around their parcel, and watches people get trapped there as they flying in while it rez'es, with teleporting home being the only escape left that I know of...