The sim Grizedale was attacked moments ago with the latest griefing technique of filling up the sim with objects, which causes it to start returning objets.
But it doesn't return the griefer's objects, it only starts returning all the legit objects in the sim to their owners, leaving the griefer's shit in place.
This is a bug, a loophole, an oversight -- whatever... it needs to be addressed immediately by the Lindens.
The most recently created objects in a sim should be the ones returned to their owners. This way the griefer's attack objects will be returned to them, and the regular users, the legitimate user of the sim will not be affected.
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New Griefing Technique Needs to Be Addressed IMMEDIATELY |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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01-22-2005 21:34
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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01-22-2005 21:35
This is what I was so pissed off about the other day in Federal - my items were returned to me while the assholes that filled my land with objects were unaffected. It is an inexplicable loophole that I have seen no good justification for. If the property has prim LIMITS on it, then honor that - there is no way any object should be able to take a property over its prim limits and trigger a return.
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Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Alan Palmerstone
Payment Info Used
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 659
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01-22-2005 21:43
Whoa, this is bad.
What happens if you have your land set to 1 minute auto return? How many items can one idiot rez in that time (multiplied by the # of idiots)? We should be able to set building to just the owners/group instead of everyone/no one. _____________________
Visit Parrot Island - relax on the beach, snuggle at the waterfall, ride the jetskis, make a movie and buy a pool!
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
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01-22-2005 21:55
Someone got us in Tupi too all the stuff at the store got returned
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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01-22-2005 21:56
disable create/edit objects on the land until this is fixed!! this is terrible
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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01-22-2005 22:10
Sounds awful.
 Spread the word, keep bumping the thread and increase awareness to our fellow Residents. Ack. _____________________
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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01-22-2005 22:11
who was the asswipe who did this?
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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01-22-2005 22:23
who was the asswipe who did this? Someone's alt created two days ago and already deleted from the user list. Gabriel Golvang, in this case. _____________________
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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01-22-2005 22:38
Someone's alt created two days ago and already deleted from the user list. Gabriel Golvang, in this case. This also happened in Anton. I contacted Char about it and she helpfully came to the rescue (yet again). *smiles* _____________________
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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
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01-23-2005 05:43
We've been telling the Lindens about this bug since... v1.3.
This bug is the first bug listed in the User Bug Queue. Granted, it's probably only been on that page half a week, but it's a major issue. _____________________
</sarcasm>
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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01-23-2005 06:12
Alright Lindens. Can you tell if this fuckwad has any currently in game accounts, and if he/she does, can you tell us when you are gonna ban him?
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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01-23-2005 07:36
i was in mocha last night just after a firebomber flew through. there were large, animated flame prims everywhere. they didn't fill the sim; but they could've pretty easily. as the residents deleted them, they ghosted, then i suddenly couldn't move and was booted to my desktop.
i'm leaning more and more to thinking that the best way to combat this kind of behaviour is to own an entire sim in the middle of the ocean where you have complete control over the traffic. now i would ever accuse ll of steadily overlooking this kind of behaviour just because it played into their better financial interest. i think they just very simply don't know what to do. surely they understand how complex and costly court resolutions can be. they also know that nobody will leave just because they got griefed a few times. we have a short list; most of them are back. people don't even leave when half of their inventory vanishes without a trace or all their land is released for no apparent reason. _____________________
Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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01-23-2005 07:48
Same Gabriel Solvang that yesterday night firebombed Anton... i really hope the lindens have an ip logging device to get an hold of nhis real identity
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Shiryu Musashi
Musashi-Do Flagship Store http://slurl.com/secondlife/Eleganza/192/114/23 Musashi-do products on XStreetSL http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=261 Musashi-Do Blog http://musashido.blogspot.com/ Follow on Twitter http://twitter.com/ShiryuMusashi |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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01-23-2005 09:11
I told you so.
Over and over and over again. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Lance LeFay
is a Thug
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 1,488
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01-23-2005 09:17
I told you so. Over and over and over again. Excuse me blaze, but what the hell are you on? _____________________
"Hoochie Hair is high on my list" - Andrew Linden
"Adorable is 'they pay me to say you are cute'" -Barnesworth Anubis |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-23-2005 09:20
I've set my land to no-build and plan to keep it that way until this is fixed.
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 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Elle Pollack
Takes internets seriously
Join date: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 796
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01-23-2005 09:26
Excuse me blaze, but what the hell are you on? He posted something about a month ago saying that llRezObject (correct?) needed limits placed on it because it could be used as a greifer tool. In all seriousness, it doesn't even take llRezObject (although that gets the attack done more quickly) |
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Robin Linden
Linden Lifer
Join date: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 1,224
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01-23-2005 09:33
I'm checking with the dev team to see what we can do about this. I'll have more information for you tomorrow.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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01-23-2005 09:36
Setting your lot to "no-build" wouldn't do anything...
All they'd have to do is create it on your neighbor's plot and drag it over. This is a catastrophe. LF _____________________
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-23-2005 09:48
I'm checking with the dev team to see what we can do about this. I'll have more information for you tomorrow. Thanks Robin _____________________
My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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01-23-2005 09:57
What the hell am I on? Oh, let's see:
when developing a multi-user environment, removing the capability for one user to do harm to another is probably one of the most, if not the most, important design guidelines to be followed. It's a shame that humans are not perfection personified, but it is a matter of reality. Just as the sun comes up in the morning, someone will purposely or accidentally do something silly and this needs to be designed for. There is a reason why so many things in SL have been hobbled. And it's not because someone thought it was a great way to waste engineering resources, I am afraid. So, do we just wait for the grid to go down and then do something about it? Is that the solution? Here are some brilliant replies: (names removed) YES, that's the solution: Give us the unhindered tools we need to develop content, and smack abusers when and if they show up. I like that idea. Yes, we all crash a sim occasionally, but it's very rare that someone does it deliberately. And almost never in a residential sim... though there was that party... but I digress... That's not the solution. The solution is to detect, report, and ban griefers. We don't need less powerful tools for griefers to use, we just need fewer griefers. The problem is pretty cut and dry. The solutions are pretty obvious. Our position as a community as a whole is to keep the feature. Our job is done, it's in the hands of LL. The problem is NOT llGiveInventory and it's NOT self-replication. The problem is stupid and/or malicious coders. Quite honestly, we have a perfectly good way of dealing with those. It's called "being able to find out precisely who created the object in question, and temp or perma banning their ass from SL". As i said before i don't really think this is a big issue. And as i was typing up my recommendation i bits of it were ringing in my memory as already existing in part. My experience with griefers is they don't take the time to learn the system. This one was petty compared with what a well designed one could do. Any tool can be misused. There's probably a billion annoying, griefing, potentially-server-crashing things you can do in LSL, without ever touching llGiveInventory(). I guess we should just get rid of scripting entirely... it'd be safer that way! Someone think of the children!! How about we just deal with the griefers directly, and stop messing with our nice LSL functions? personally still don't see the issue. Some 'griefer' makes an obnoxious self-replicator. Grid goes down. Lindens rain flaming doom down on said griefer's head. Grid comes back up. You're being treated as a crackpot, because you keep refusing to listen to the fundamental answer you're being given. blaze : We HAVE to cripple this functionality, or we are doomed us : We don't need to cripple the functionality, we need to stop its misuse Blaze: 0 Community: 37 I know your a smart guy but i don't think you understand the level of control LL has over the sims. For example, one script they run in the sandbox's and a few other sims restricts the link distance to 256 on any axis. Another script they run tries to catch sim crashes before they happen, deleting the object before the sim takes a dive. Yet another script deletes physical objects being used to deepthink a sim. LL has so much control that building an anti-virus engine isn't at all out of the question. Its just as easy to ignore those that feel that this is a argument-competition Blaze. Many of your points are unfounded or have been successfully rebutted. (me): as we all know deep down that the command can not simply go unchecked. See!!! That's where you're wrong. None of us do and you seem to be the only one who feels this way. There are other and better ways of dealing with the few jerks and fools that deliberatly abuse these tools and better ways of dealing with those who accidentally abuse them, or those whove abused them out of some temporary passion. That is absurd. You are suggesting that people stealing credit card numbers are going to bother taking down an interactive database while exposing themselves in the process; and that this is all common place (not the credit card theft but the stuff after it). You have just described a terrorist. (that one was funny) And then I posted this, and nobody continued to argue. Which I found very amusing! BallerMoMo King: i was like reno ur dead i will send u a gift soooon BallerMoMo King: 2 days later ….i started the attack ….and crashed his sim with other 5 sims You: were the other sims an accident? BallerMoMo King: Yep i wanted 2 bring one sim down You: oops BallerMoMo King: things went wrong so 6 sims went down BallerMoMo King: i know that it could fuck the other sims BallerMoMo King: but i thought that things were fixed 2 bring only one sim down BallerMoMo King: and andrew linden knows me very well BallerMoMo King: they said no use from banning me anymore BallerMoMo King: cuz i will come back with another av You: right, cuz you would keep coming back BallerMoMo King: yes and would use different credit cards BallerMoMo King: for the new av’s You: Isn’t kind of expensive, having this island, this house, paying your bodyguards, and having all these accts? BallerMoMo King: Hmmmmmmmm not for me lol _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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01-23-2005 09:58
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Zane Cassidy
Registered User
Join date: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 8
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01-23-2005 10:27
Yeah someone did this to my store and all the objects got returned....damn people these days!
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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01-23-2005 15:12
New attack right now, same gabriel solvang, this time on Seefeld, fps bogged down to 150
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Shiryu Musashi
Musashi-Do Flagship Store http://slurl.com/secondlife/Eleganza/192/114/23 Musashi-do products on XStreetSL http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=261 Musashi-Do Blog http://musashido.blogspot.com/ Follow on Twitter http://twitter.com/ShiryuMusashi |
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Lance LeFay
is a Thug
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 1,488
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01-23-2005 15:19
when developing a multi-user environment, removing the capability for one user to do harm to another is probably one of the most, if not the most, important design guidelines to be followed. It's a shame that humans are not perfection personified, but it is a matter of reality. Just as the sun comes up in the morning, someone will purposely or accidentally do something silly and this needs to be designed for. There is a reason why so many things in SL have been hobbled. And it's not because someone thought it was a great way to waste engineering resources, I am afraid. So, do we just wait for the grid to go down and then do something about it? Is that the solution? _____________________
"Hoochie Hair is high on my list" - Andrew Linden
"Adorable is 'they pay me to say you are cute'" -Barnesworth Anubis |
