Rigged!

Gawd....too many "replys" to read... but this is very interesting. I love black jack and play it often in SL. I have always come out a few dollars richer....there are a couple of basic rules I always stick by that seem to work....

anyhow....did anyone bother to count the cards in the example of game play given in this post? and how many decks of cards is that particular table use?.......i see the psudeo randomness was mentioned but was it actually used in construction of gameplay in that particular device?

hugs
jo

I played the game this morning, just to see about Delian's claim. Me and 3 others were there playing the game, and all saw it to be an unfair, and possibly rigged game. I'm not saying it IS rigged. I am no-one to be pointing fingers. Maybe the dealer was just luck on my, Delian, and the other 3 people that were there? The dealer seemed to always be matching us, or getting higher. And the dealer very RARELY busted.

But it could just be luck of the draw. I think Delian really shouldn't have made such a dramatic targeted post on the forums though. He really should have talked to Jack in the game, and asked about it, before making a public slandering post.

Bah, I really shouldn't have said any of that LOL

You guys can trust Ama and Alek, if anyone gyped you, it was not either of them, that's for sure.

If there is any error it is just that, a mistake by Jack. He's always been very honest and fair with my dealings with him. Just got play the Craps he created and I have.. Very even odds there (too even I think! )

Pirate

nice plug Dave.

I hate to bump this sour thread but I just checked for any transactions from Delian in my account history for the past 2 weeks and there were NONE. Acidic chaos spent a lot of money but thats it. Thx acid.

The Sales/Gift tab (if that is what you are going by) is not accurate for anyone that gets more than ~30 - 35 transactions a day. Because that is all the page will show. Compare its value to your details page for how much money you got and you will notice a LARGE discrepency. I have reported it before, but if you notice this PLEASE REPORT IT. I am viewed as a unique situation because of my games and thus the complaint is not given high priority (I believe).

<shrug>

Whenever I've played the game before, Ive' either came out even or ahead... if I start to lose, I do as Si suggested previously and move onto another game

<plug>
BTW, everyone's a winner at Hangman! ('cept for the people who can't get the word right
</plug>

--Water

What's interesting is that the dealer's score is always given, but your score is not given unless you bust. This makes it difficult to conduct a statistical analysis.

I can tell you the dealer scores had a mean of 19.76 and a standard deviation of 2.14, and that you may have had a slightly lower chance of busting than the dealer.

Sorry to be so nosey but I'm still curious about where two players that have born on dates of 10/27/2003 and 10/30/2003 had so much to bet with in the first place...?

Not accusing anyone of anything but am I and Iron the only ones who see this as out of the ordinary?

The large amounts being gambled with were what made me a little leery of the whole thing. In all fairness, they could have won that much money gambling, but it is an awful lot for a couple of very new residents to scrape together.

I have looked at the code, and although fairly messy, the drawing and counting parts for the dealer match the drawing and counting parts for the player. The exception is a while loop that keeps drawing if the dealer has less than 17. Which is pretty expected eh?

And it now returns the bet on a push.

thx ama. So do I get a cool AmaApproved texture to stick on my game now?

That's great to hear. Grats Jack.

I'll get Alek working on an Omega Approved or Omega Certified token or something we can place by your game.

Okay theres been alot of stuff going in and out in this thread and i figured i'd just give out the actual way blackjack *MUST* be played, from a technical standpoint (there are variations such as 21 etc, and optional rules i will try an cover as well but the main body will be the rules of the game of blackjack)... and yes I do like game theory and probability, and I probably *WILL* make an 'official rules' blackjack script once i get better at scripting in SL (I do know enough now to offer my services though if anyone wants me to verify possible odds in a gaming script though)

Basically blackjack is the game to reach 21 points in cards, but not over *duh* but it has several special cases, and exceptions, that differentiate it from its lowly simply 21 predecessor.

Two cards are dealt to the player, open.

Two cards are dealt to the dealer, one closed.

(optional insurance phase if the dealer has an ace showing)

If the player has blackjack, the game is over. Dealer's hand is turned.

If the dealer also has blackjack, the game pushes and player is refunded their money.

If the dealer does not have blackjack, the player wins back 2.5x their bet, aka they are given $25 back on their bet of $10

if the player does not have blackjack, they may excercise several optional rules if they are in play, depending on hand (split, double, surrender etc) and he may also simply choose to hit for an additional card, or stand and end his turn.

(I will describe the optional rules in a second post)

If the player hits, he is dealt a card. if his hard (aces as ones) total exceeds 21, he busts and looses his bet and the game is over.

if he does not bust he may continue to hit (up to 5 cards with optional rule or until he does bust)

Once the player has decided to stand, the dealer's hole card is turned over. If the dealer has blackjack, the player looses otherwise, the dealer plays a FIXED rule set. (no strategy at all as mentioned in some other posts, that is 21, not blackjack, and is not a casino allowable game)

The Most common variant is 'hard 17' aka dealer must hit until his hard (the first ace will be counted as 11 as long as it does not make the dealer bust) total exceeds or equals 17 (go to scoring phase) or he busts (player wins double their bet back).

(there is a 'soft' 17 variant as well, where the dealer WILL hit on a soft 17 (there is one ace counting as 11 in the soft total) but will stand on hard 17's and ALL 18+ totals, its messy, and many consider it unfair)

(note in both of these variants there IS no deterministic engine for the dealer, its simply based on the total of the hand, blackjack is NOT allowed to have a 'thinking' dealer, period)

And that is a basic game of black jack... In its basic method it favors the house simply because players get the first chance to 'bust' but do get some chance to be wise about the dealer's showing card (though without the optional rules this can't really be exploited)...

Table payout of casino black jack MUST be 95 cents for every dollar collected according to most gaming commision rules, but its general abit higher, approaching 97-98 cents... casino's do not 'like' black jack because it is *THE* most even game the player may choose in a casino... of course this also means its a DRAW and brings people into the casino in the first place, especially high rollers, which is generally considered its own reward (since many also sample the much more profitable other games out there)

Okay here's basically a listing of the major optional rules for blackjack that *most* RL casino's play

(for simplicity, consider all hands being played in these explanations to be $10 basic bet hands)

1) Insurance phase
(favors dealer generally)

Should the dealer's open card be an ace, the dealer offers an 'insurance' bet to the player of half of value of their original bet (aka you bet $10 on a hand, dealer shows an ace, your 'insurance' costs $5

If you accept the insurance bet, the dealer privately inspects their hole card and should it be a 10 value, the hand is over, and your 'insurance' bet wins pauing 2:1 (aka yer $5 insurance bet returns $15 (the $5 itself and $10 winnings), covering and effectively nullifying your otherwise loosing hand.

This can be further complicated by you buying insurance ON your blackjack, should you have been dealt one. In this case, should the dealer have blackjack as well, your hand is pushed and original bet returned, and our insurance bet 'wins' as well, returning you an extra $10 on the hand. If the dealer does *not* have blackjack, your insurance bet looses, but you still win the hand, effectively trimming your 'normal' $15 winnings, (aka $25 payout) back to $10

Insurance is VERY VERY rarely worth it for a player, and casino's can exploit that with under-experienced players to skim a little extra cash off of them (the actual insurance bet payout probabilities would be even odds for the player if 1/3 cards was a 10, but in actuality only 4/13 cards are tens so the player looses out in most cases

*phew* okay, enough of that

2) double down
(favors player slightly, but is a HUGE draw for the game compared to a non double game so tends to pull casino's more money anyway)


You may double down on the first hit of *ALL* hands that have gotten to the 'draw' phase (though its not always worth it obviously)


doubling down is a very simple rule, it works exactly the same as a hit but the player pays an additional sum of their starting bet for the next card.. aka doubling on a 5-6 would increase the players total bet to $20 (and possible payout if they win to $40) The onl major difference is when you double, you *ONLY* get one additional card... so if your 6-5 becomes a 6-5-2 you can be out of luck (tho its still possible to win since dealers MUST hit to 17 even if they would otherwise 'beat' your meager hand

thats it

3) Split
(favors the player some with experienced players, favors the casino more with novices)

Similar to doubling, bet and timing wise, once a hand gets to the 'decide' phase for the player, if they have been dealt two identical value cards, they may seperate them out and play each of them as a hand, adding the original bet's value for the priveledge.

Each hand is played as a unique hand and MY also further-split/double etc (you could place a limit of 3-4 hands but thats more for programming convenience than anything else)

4) Surrendering.
(favors house slightly with late surrender, favors players heavily with early surrender)

Basically once the initial 4 cards have been dealt, if you as the player feel your hand will loose, before doing ANYTHING else, you may elect to surrender and get half of your bet returned to you, you loose the hand and the round is over.

in 'early' surrender you get the choice to surrender before the dealer checks for blackjack, that favors the player heavily, probably TOO heavy to allow for scripting a game here

in late surrender, the player still looses on a dealer blackjack but can back out of having a 10-6 against a dealer 10 showing for example


there are a few other minor quirks in the game aka does the dealer 'always' check possible blackjacks (and end the hand) or does the dealer only check under aces (thus with a 10 showing going into the decision phase you may or may not actualy know whether the dealer had blackjack, or not (can give a slight edge to the player so most casno's don't check the hole card with a 10 showing until after the hand is over)


I have found basically NONE of the SL blackjack games offer any of these optional rules (even double which should be VERY easy to make) so I will probably try to create a script that does, if only for personal use, simply because i love playing the game.


I hope these posts have cleared up *some* confusion, at least to how a blackjack game should be played to match the actual real casino experience.

If a game does *not* live up to these rules (especially the basic set) it should not be called blackjack. A rule card really ought to be included with the machine explaining ALL potential rule decisions made by the coder, at least to the curious player.

(ppssst this also includes yer flavor of card engine, random every card is NOT the same as dealing X number of decks is NOT the same as dealing with Y number of decks)

good luck guys ^.^

Basically i also feel all games should be open to inspection of their code and we ought to have some kind of system of tokens or approvals that would let players know exactly what they're getting payout wise.

This would really need to be linden-favored aka if ama does make an ama-approved token and someone FAKES it, they should be ready to face the music with actual game punishment.

Betting can be a powerful thing and a playing patron deserves to both

A) know the rules and payout (cents per dollar) range, roughly... before playing if they are so inclined... (probably with an attached card)

B) know a game's code to be certifiably accurate to (A) by some form of verification process.

This isn't just for players either. It will solve alot of people complaing issues when they loose if you can point to a token and certification 'report' for a specific scripted game

and by range i mean like in nevada or atlantic city where pay ranges are very VERY strictly enforced, depending on game type (aka slots 85 cents per dollar, tables 90 cents per dollar, etc)... we could jus simplify this to 'type' aka 'certified slots' or 'certified table'

of course that might drag a whole series of permission issues into the game where once certified, even the owner shouldn't be able to change the script of a game, only the certifier... but thats what free time is for ... right.... right?

Okay, so.....

Really, I haveta know!

Gambling is dumb. In a real casino, the only sure-fire way to walk away cash positive is to take in a pile of semolians and play Blackjack for several hours according to an EXACT set of rules. You cannot f*** up EVEN ONCE or you risk losing the last hour's winnings. The margin is positive and very, very small. On top of all that, you run the risk of getting permanently un-invited to the casino when they realize you're a shark.

Seems like this game actually has a negative margin...

Not that I mean to say anything bad about Jack, whose ring toss game paid me $300 today...