Nasty Mentor Incident

I dont get to spend time in secondlife very much but i enjoy it when i am here, except for today. Today i was home because of bad weather and spent some time in secondlife exploring and decided to attend a mentor event on using animations. When it was time for the event to start I tried to get into the sim of Gama where it was held but it was full and i couldnt get in. I messaged the mentor holding it and asked was it a real event.

There were 2 reasons I asked her this. First was that she was holding another event at the same time in her club there in Gama and there were so many people there in her club that was why the sim was full and i couldnt get in. The other reason i asked her was it a ligitimate event was because when I was home at christmas and spent time in secondlife this person had an event every hour at her club in gama and they werent really real events. I went to a few of them and each time there were the same people dancing there no matter what the event was described to be. Some events said organized singles meeting and when i went there same people in the same spots dancing and no event happened. Another event said a contest and when i went there no contest, just the same people dancing. Someone told me the club events were listed every hour to get the money for having an event.

So today when i went to the animation event and could not get because the sim was full from the club I asked if it was a real mentor event or was it abuse of paid events. The mentor holding the class said she was outside of her club not in it and she sent a teleport to me into the sim. Then when i asked her was it a real event she cursed at me and then told me to get out. I never griefed her or cursed back or anything but after she cursed at me I negative rated her. That made her really pissed and she negative rated me back. she started a hysterical meltdown and called in jack linden. He listened and during the whole time I was polite and never once cursed her, or was nasty . All i did was wonder why she was holding a mentor event in front of her club at the same tiem she was holding a club event and people could not get into the sim.

She made alot of nasty accusations and she was a mess especially after i neg rated her for cursing at me. She neg rated me back and said her event was cancelled because i upset her. She carried on alot and when i left i reported the incident and sent in the chat to linden in email like Jack LInden advised.

Here is my beef. She is a mentor for gods sake what is she doing cursing and carrying on like an emotional drama queen and telling me to get out because i asked her was it a real event when i could not get into the sim? Someone told me linden stopped paying for club events and the only way to get the money was to have a mentor event, so what does she do? She goes out in front of her club at the same time there is an event inside it and holds this mentor event in front of the club and there are so many people in the club you cant get into the sim for the mentor event. But when she cursed me with the F word and told me to get out she was not setting any kind of example as a mentor and she should be kicked out of mentors.

Why are mentors allowed to get around this no payment for club events by holding it in front of the club during a club event? WHat else pissed me off was the way Jack LInden automatically assumed I did something to deserve being told to leave and told me she has nothgin to do with the club preventing people from teleporting into the sim when it was her club and her club event going on. So he defended her even though she was gaming the mentor payment and even though she was cursing at me because she was a mentor. What shit is this?

well that's a pretty lame situation if it happened like that. i'm not sure why you brought it to the forums tho since we have no way to know it did happen like that. you dealt with it through the Lindens and sent in the chat log so that's that. posting it here won't really help anything, prolly won't make you feel better, and will just cause more drama. you got neg rated? well if you neg rate people sometimes they hit you back. it happens.

since you already took care of this officially what did you think posting it here would accomplish?

Zuzi I appreciate your thoughts on this. I decided to tell what happened on the forum cause i think when a mentor acts like this and games the mentor events this way it affects all the people here not just the lindens. They set her up to mentor us and everyone has a right to know that she is abusing it. ps i really like your name zuzi, very cool

I'm surprised Linden Support gaming took this long to pop up (assuming the poster gave an accurate report). Selection criteria for mentors were always pretty light and oversight was quite difficult when the world was one tenth the size it is now.

All the title "Mentor" signifies is that the bearer is older than 30 days, has no "rap sheet" of infractions (which I think age away over time) and was given some introductory materials. Aside from that mentors are just players and although they are supposed to hold to a higher standard of conduct there are likely some who don't much in the same way that RL police are supposed to serve and protect but every once in a while pull a "Rodney King".

I don't mean to disparage mentors in general based on one possibly false account, but it is not inconceivable that there are a few bad apples bearing the title. Zack, at the first utterance of invective, you should have abuse reported and split. That would have been much more likely to call out someone misusing the title. Many players involved in any conflict in SL tend to act first, think later and the Lindens typically give no weight at all to "but he/she/it started the conflict".

World->Teleport Home is so much easier on the blood pressure than getting into an in game fight. I wish more folks would remember this.

whatever made you think that today would be any different from three weeks ago? burn me twice...eh whatever

it's time for the lindens to decommission the mentor and instructor groups. the residents are well capable of hosting instructional events on our own land with our own money. ll need to focus on the software & hardware and general marketing & customer support.

be the host...be the host...be the host...

except we don't know she's abusing it cause we don't know who she is, and it would be wrong for you to post who she is anyway which leaves us not knowing who she is and not knowing that she's abusing it. ya see?

and i'm really glad you like my name. thank you.

Malachi, ty for your input. It happened quickly and i tell you i did keep my cool , i was more surprised by her melt down then anything and i only stayed to see if jack linden had any questions ,heard her out and i did leave. I did keep it cool and went back to the sandbox to learn from some "real mentors"

Not helping your case. Although im sure its not too accurate but one of the most common things i have heard the sandbox being called is "The Minor box".

yes the statement about the sandbox was my attempt at being funny. One thing i didnt express to good is that i also wanted to post about this because of jack linden and the way he handled it. He was telling me that the mentor was not in control of who comes to the sim and fills it up so that no one can enter.

He completely disregarded the fact that it was her club and her event in the club that the class was in front of that was the reason the sim was full. The way Jack LInden didnt pay attention and jumped to wrong conclusions was a reason why i thought this was the business of all the people and they should know. \

Who knows maybe Jack LInden will see this and think twice about what he says and will check the situation and facts before speaking,

I am not saying all mentors are bad but this one sure is and anyone who has been to gama knows who.

edited to make the sentence structure more readable , sorry

Zack, maybe it was your sentence structure that pissed her off

I find it interesting that this alleged incident ocurred on the same day Haney posted the Educational Event Support Guidelines. Maybe your story finally lit the fire under LL's butt to provide some concrete definitions.

On another note, thanks Zack for being a better human being than the many who would have come here, posted the alleged ofender's name, stirred up a hornet's nest of arguments, and thrived on the comisery. You simply informed us that attempts to game the new support system have (allegedly) begun, which is worth knowing. You've also pointed out the all too real humanity of mentors. Reminding newbies (and even oldies) that just because someonone has a title over their head doesn't make them good is also well worthwhile.

Just a few weeks in, welcome to SL, Zack.

Pisses me off too ! lol

You don't deal with poeple that way and expect to get a calm reaction. I also wonder how many times she said yes it's a real event and how many times did you say you didn't believe her before she got pissed off? If the mentor event was purely on the up and up (there is the possibility) she would still get very upset because you are openly accusing her of lying and cheating, creating a confrontation in public. You were then told to leave but instead you stayed to continue the confrontation. That is very poor people skills and people are prone to acting irrationaly when you do this sort of thing and just from reading what you wrote sounds an awful lot like griefing to me. Also, just because you didn't curse doesn't mean you weren't abusive and confrontational (not saying you were). I could likely incite you into a fit of rage and never leave the realm of a G rating...

Jack it may have been the way you posed your question that peeved off this particular mentor:That does sound a bit rude.

Having said that she shouldn't have started cursing etc, but unfortunately there are a few people who probably shouldn't be mentors, and no doubt will be weeded out once they get a mark on their record.

I am proud to be a mentor and do think that we should behave in a way that's respectful to ourselves and to our peers. If things went down exactly the way as you described I'm sure the lindens will be speaking to this particular mentor..

It's not surprising that some people will try to get around the new event support rules, but it is still annoying, and I've no doubt that it won't be tolerated by LL.

actually it was in IM there was no open accusation, and there was only one tiem that i asked her so i dont know what you mean, and i never accused her of cheating or lying. Not sure why you are fabricating all this.

I'm not going to comment on the confrontation which was shared with us here beyond this. If there is a loophole or way to "play" a system, someone will do it. I have no idea if this was the case or not. Not even going to go there...

What does disturb me of late is the feel of negativity towards Mentors in general. Please, please, PLEASE realize something here. Mentors are NOT being paid any differently than anyone else here. EDUCATIONAL events are it. Period. And, yes, Mentors have to get their education based events pre-approved the same as everyone else to receive support. Mentors are no longer being given support for the more general Q&A help sessions, socials, chats, etc. As far as I, as a Mentor, can see.. the only difference is that some are in a "group" with a "Mentor" title. There is no difference in financial support.

When you wear the mentor flag, you keep it on the level. You don't get pissed off or be rude. Period and absolute. Yes, I have been a mentor since you could be one, run very big and complex events, etc. There is a reason I vent on the forums and never in world.

It is a form of limited prestige but has an obligation. You become recognized, in world, as being a source of info and generally helpful. Linden trusts you with this. People really grief or aggravate you, take it to the Lindens and hold your ground on the side of the TOS. Mute works too.

I have been strong critic of many of LLs actions. But I understand that I accepted the title and that means a thing or two when I am in world. Comply or quit the group. That's that. There is no "what if".

I'm eating really good pea soup. With ham.

I mean with ham in it, not with a ham.

Remember Campbell's used to make 'Split Pea with Ham' Chunky soup? That was my favourite flavour, so naturally, it was discontinued soon after I discovered it.

Anyway, I'm not a capital-M mentor, but I spend a fair bit of time teaching newbies how to build. They trust me despite my lack of "official" title because they recognize the truth I am sharing with them as it unfolds (eg. "change the cut setting B to 0.5, and you get half a sphere." -- they do it, and it works -- credibility is self-establishing). Generally, after a lesson, I invite them to ask me any questions in future, and they have good reason to trust my knowledge/advice because they see I've already led them in the right direction before.

So, since financial issues have become minimal, if not non-existent, perhaps the capital-M title is ready for retirement. I've never encountered a newbie who didn't give me enough implicit credibility to teach them something and establish my credibility explicitly. *shrug*

It doesn't really matter whether a mentor's event is being supported or not: carrying the Mentor title means that you are being held up to higher standards of behavior and responsability than the average player, even if it's only in the eyes of the community (I believe LL agrees but I'm not familiar enough with the offical policies involved). Those who fail to live up to those expectations don't deserve the job. I've been in a Mentor's position before in another game (yeah, half of SL has prolly heard that by now) and have been through the importance of this many, many times in the past so I really have zero sympathy for the individual Mentor involved, whoever they are. (And we had no economy in-game, so there was no concept of event support or anything like that).

I was there a few minutes after Zack arrived. The Mentor in question was holding her first event. Yes the Sim was full but everyone who IM'ed her was TP'ed in and there was minimal lag. There were people in her club but there was no advertised event going on at the time. I don't think she should kick everyone out of her club because the event from earlier was so popular people stayed on.

I never met either of these two individuals prior to this event. And even though I understand Zack's frustration, I don't understand why he continued to behave as he did well into the event's scheduled time. I do think the Mentor got a little flustered as it was her first event. As someone who has held events, I can understand how she felt.

I am sorry she didn't give you whatever you felt you were owed Zack. But your continued arguing held up an event that several people were there to enjoy. I'm sorry it wasn't held to your specifications, but what do you think the $L$500 she might have been paid entitled you to?

In my opinion, your continued interference in one of the few non-"shake your booty"/Tringo events was not fair to the rest of us who came to learn. If indeed you felt you were justified in your arguments, did you really expect her to continue to teach you while you continued to complain? At some point, even if you think you are right, there's a time to just walk away and file a complaint.

Just so you know, I spoke with this new Mentor and she is pretty sure she won't be Mentoring anymore. So you should be satisfied.

Oh and I maybe wrong but the phrase you seemed so horrified about was "wtf". Some might saying it was cursing, some might say simple letters.

Absolutely.. I agree that to wear the Mentor title means you are held to a higher standard of behavior... as newbies encountering the title will clearly be expecting the person to be a representative of SL and helpful towards them. I was just commenting really on the various comments made in several threads about Mentors and being paid. We are no different or given any special treatment in that regard.

Hehe.. I am very aware of the Mentoring program in that other world as well. *grin* My Oh My.. LOL

i think the key thing april is that you were not part of all the IMs that went on with her before even i got into the sim. I appreciate that you wanted the class and so did !. Why do you think I was there. AS far as why I stayed I was waiting for Jack LInden who was also talking in IM and you really dont have all the facts.

As far as what I am entitled to, same as you and every other secondlife member, and that is a mentor who does not curse at us no matter what the circumstance and who does not lose it because she is asked is this a real event. That question did not justtify her going off the way she did.

You know she was also posting my private IM chat with her in open chat which is against the TOS. You may not care about the rules but one day they may work against you and then you will care. She is a mentor and she should not curse at other members while actinig as a mentor at a mentor event, and she should not tell a member to leave when he asks her a polite question, and she should not post private IMs in open chat without permission. I asked her to stop doing that and she said i was evil. Maybe one time she will post your private Ims in open chat and you will understand that its just wrong.

You may be unhappy that I spoke up but i was polite, and sorry but i replied to statements and questions I didnt argue. I dont curse and when I ask a polite question i dont expect to be cursed at in anger by a mentor acting as a mentor at a mentor event.

Thats it in a nutshell. If she doesnt hold another mentor event then good because she should not be a mentor. She does not set a good example and I have to wonder why you would defend her crass conduct and criticise my not wanting to be cursed at. What does this say about you?

I was not defending her. All I asked was that the event be allowed to start. Perhaps you were justified in your complaint. But there were people who were there to learn something. I am sorry if by wanting the event to continue, I was wrong. It was just my humble opinion.

Zack, she is not going to be a Mentor, what more do you wish to accomplish with this thread? In the future, if another mentor does not behave to your specs, should the event be stopped? Or wouldn't it be better to continue the event and sort the issues out later?

I've run into quite a few nasty mentors. Frankly, it's why I won't be one. I'd rather not be associated with that. In this case, however, I should point out that mentors (as of the last time I checked) only earn money for Mentor Events in three places. Stage Four in Dore, the stage in Oak Grove (nearish Busy Bens) and the Vehicle Sims. So if you see a Mentor doing a Mentor Event outside of those places, they are likely -not- being paid (receiving official Linden Support).

Don't get me started on certain Lindens not doing immediate research before making assumptions :/

Oh-HO! So I'm not the only one! Thank you, Jesus.

Keep talking, Zack, don't give up , stick to your guns, and don't let the intimidating bullies on the forum get you down. They will pick on your spelling, word choice, name tag, and a host of other things to try to discredit you. Don't let it distract you. The more you fight, the harder it will get, and many self-important arrogant so-and-sos will tell you that you are "putting your foot in your mouth" or "shooting yourself in the foot" or many other foot metaphors -- just ignore them. They are wrong.

Your incident was very similar to mine with Live Help (read my thread called Live Help or Dead Disservice). And now I come to find out that all those people who bitched at me that I had information wrong about the 30-day period free of bannings and were SO condescending and smug were only speaking of Live Help -- turns out Mentor really only does require 30 days, and not the 6 months of Live Help.

First of all, the mentor should not hold double events like that, using the mentor title in a craven effort to boost their own business. This Agean stable needs to be cleaned out.

Earth to Lindens, Earth to Lindens: stop feting and cosseting and billeting these sumptious arrogant older players with grants and free rides and benefits of the doubt. The reported behaviour of Jack Linden was the bitterest pill of all to swallow! You have a new class of players coming in and they DEMAND A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. End the extra payments for mentor events -- it's of dubious quality anyway and only creates friction in the game. Real mentors have good reputations and can charge real money for their services and they will be paid if not by individuals, then sponsored by businesses. End this constant Linden tropism for older players, assuming they are in the right, and frustrated newer players are in the wrong.

Earth to Lindens, Earth to Lindens: stop giving the high road to Live Helpers and Mentors at the expense of players, especially newer ones, when it is clear that these feted individuals are abusing the system and DISCOURAGING YOUR CUSTOMERS. BE FAIR.

Earth to Lindens, Earth to Lindens: train both Mentors and Live Help more thoroughly to instill a bit of customer-service type courtesy. No one wearing the Mentor or Live Help hat should be screaming and having meltdowns, or bullying players to bring prices down while they shop for land, or any of that kind of inappropriate behaviour. They ought to be writing shift reports on bugs they have solved or can't solve instead of referring everyone into AR limbo.

It often takes several IMs to get these popular IM Queens to get off their rumps and pay attention to an urgent signal that you can't get into their sim. I wouldn't have bothered after the first rejected teleport, but I admire Zack for pursuing his aim. Mentors and Live Helpers should not be combining business with pleasure.

Hire Lindens, pay them, have them run high-quality subsidized "mentor events" if you must. Or let experienced players charge for their services. End this system of feather-bedding for older players!!!! They already have loads of ratings, cheap goods, cheap land, lifetime tier-free accounts and many other sometimes intangible benefits.

MAKE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD FOR THIS GAME!!!