Dedicated Government Forum

I dislike the idea of a seperate forum for government, that is not directly involved with SL such as texturing and building are. Where would it end? Special forums for each thread, totally rediculous.

What's "rediculous" mean?

~Ulrika~

That actually was my point. I wanted to point out the huge difference between Communism as a socioeconomic theory and the communist state as a government; Socialism as a socioeconomic theory and social democracy as a government; as well as provide a link where people could learn more.

Now that's an excellent suggestion!

Government is tied directly to land. The only hassle is that the forum is run by a gaggle of land speculators right now. Hmm.

~Ulrika~

lol ulrika, that's silly... the forum isn't run by ANYBODY. it's a free for all, although pathfinder has brought a little needed decorum to it.

You understand that I know that they are not literally in charge of that specific forum right? Don't make me post a Wikipedia link to figurative speech.

As for Pathfinder, he is certainly unique. He made a very constructive post in the Land and Economy forum. I'm so used to Lindens being silent forum lurkers, that it took me by surprise to see him jumping in on the action. So he's a little lock happy. All in all it looks like a win.

~Ulrika~

So I misspelled a word, Im not perfect like some feel they are...........

Deserving or inspiring ridicule; absurd, preposterous, or silly. See Synonyms at foolish.

Player-based binding arbitration works just as well by contract IF both parties in the argument agree to be bound by the decision of the arbiter in question. If they do not, it goes to the Lindens. I agree that such things as building codes are best handled by a city... assuming a person wants to live with imposed building codes, there are plenty of private sims and other such communities that can provide that service.



This is just like 8th grade math class... show your proof, please. I do not believe that wealth must be taken from those who work to create it, to be given to those that did not earn it.



In that syntax, I would change my vote to 'have a separate forum for these discussions'. I can only imagine 90% of the residents rolling their eyes at all these threads in General and thinking "ANOTHER $#%^$ government thread?! Quit beating a dead horse!" When really we may not be beating a dead horse but rather exploring the genetic possibilities of what future horses may look like if we mess with their DNA.... there is nothing wrong with careful experimenting so long as the monster does not escape the lab. Did I stretch that metaphor too far?



Think of it not as a tax, but instead as an incremental incentive. LL would rather have me paying $75 for 1/4 sim tier that $40 for 1/8 sim. I like saving $5, but really it buys me lunch one day out of 30. Sure, if you compare the lowest tier to the highest tier, we get something like the 6.24 factor you refer to (I'm not doing the math), to which I say, So? It is just that much more the incentive, if I can afford a full sim tier. If I can not, other people who can should be penalized? IMO, I think not.



No. The rules regulating land reselling (what do you have against a person leasing their land?) is the problem, not the bonus provided for owning more land. We already agreed it was the ability to buy in bulk and then split up for sale without a waiting period (thus providing incentive for landbarons to outbid individuals) that is the perceived problem, yes? It is not the fact that one pays $5 less for 1/4 sim than they would for 1/8 sim twice, its the land brokering that is perceived to be the problem.



Do you have available somewhere the fees that you would want to see being charged, tier by tier? I'm interested in seeing the hard numbers of 512=$, 1024=$, etc etc etc.



Exactly.



Utilitarianism = The ethical theory proposed by Jeremy Bentham and James Mill that all action should be directed toward achieving the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.

Why should my options be curtailed so that some other person may profit? Again, I think it gets back to your proof that we need a welfare state (redistribution of wealth earned by one, seized by another, to be given to yet another that did not earn it). Give me examples of where it benefits the individual to give up their freedoms or wealth so that someone removed from their immediate circle can benefit. Keep in mind that it is a given that actions such as murder are already covered by the 'do not interfere with another individuals rights' bit.

Before anyone starts thinking that this is a selfish position to hold, and that I am a selfish person for believing these things, ask the people that know me. To the people that matter to me, I am a most generous and caring person. To the people outside my circle, I hold no grief, but really they should stand on their own two feet, with the assistance of their friends. That is to say, without holding out a beggar’s bowl in one hand and the pistol of coercive governance in the other.

In addition, I also see nothing wrong with charity to causes one cares about. In particular, my heartstrings are plucked brightly when natural disaster destroys the lives of those who did nothing wrong but be in Nature's way.



From the link on Totalitarianism:

Call me a product of the Cold War then, for this is the categorization I was using.



I think you linked to the wrong wiki page for Socialism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism is the page on Socialism... you linked to Social Democracy. Social Democracy is indeed a form a democracy. Socialism on the other hand is a much broader category than simply social democracy.

From dictionary.com, this definition stands out as pretty darned totalitarian:

I think we have stepped way outside the scope of this thread with our discussion. It was originally about whether or not we need a dedicated government (better termed 'Political Theory') forum. To my way of thinking, at this point I would say 'yes', if for no other reason than to get us out of everyone's hair.

Failing a forum dedicated to political theory, perhaps a group like the Thinkers might allow us to create 'Political Thought' threads in their forum space.

-Ghoti

Yes. I'm watching businesses implement building codes and arbitration with the goal of creating profit while we do the same with the goal of creating community. It's a fascinating process to watch, each system with their own strengths.

I'll give you a thought experiment. Assume that there exists a place where all people are approximately equal and have a desire to accumulate wealth. Given that there will exist random variations in their environment, some individuals will accumulate wealth at a higher rate. Those who accumulate more will be able to reinvest that wealth which lifts their already high rate even higher (exponential growth). This results in an increasing disparity in wealth among what was originally an equal society.

I don't want to turn this into a lesson on monetary dynamics, so I'll simply ask, why would you doubt this given that there is a exponential distribution of wealth in every modern industrial society (and SL as well)? If wealth did not accumulate in such a manner, the very concept of redistribution of wealth wouldn't exist.

You're asking me if you took something too far? That's my middle name.

This is rhetorical hyperbole used to paint those who support a welfare system as simultaneously beggars and oppressors. In reality those who are starving are never the ones holding the guns. (Also, while I love the study of rhetoric, I find it's an impediment to understanding in one-on-one discussions.)

Ah the Thinkers. I'm a member, although no longer active. I became frustrated with their philosophical debates. I always felt they should change their name from "Thinkers" to "Those who presuppose the existence of God and argue about the paradoxes created by this supposition". (Some of my favorite people in SL are Thinkers by the way.)

~Ulrika~

well, I thought you were perfect up until that scandalous misspelling incident, my faith has been shaken...

Who says anyone's perfect?

By the way, I agree with Huns on this one!

Hi im new to the forums so i haven't read much.Ulrika could you please make a summary of what you'd like to do goverment-wise in SL?

Ulrika wants to nationalize all business within SL and bring it under the banner of a single government, elected by the people. All who disagree with Ulrika will be relegated to six simulators to the southwest, five of which will be running on really antiquated hardware.



No, just kidding. <3 Ulrika