OK, I'm Pissed Off (and not about the economy)
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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01-11-2005 13:04
From: FlipperPA Peregrine The argument goes something like this, and its nothing against creators or casual users. Its against people gaming the system, which costs everyone else more money. Here goes... (1) People can buy an account for US$10. This is great. It appeals to the casual user, some one who won't use a lot of system resources, and doesn't need a lot of money. It also increases the user base and allows people an "extended trial" to see if SL is for them without sinking a large amount of money into SL. (2) But wait! They can game the system through ratings and running nonsense events, so if they need more money, they game the systems instead of earning an honest Linden dollar. (3) The people who own land, build, create, script, and so on have the biggest US$ and time investment in SL. (4) Those creators are pulling weight for supporting Linden Lab/servers/salaries/etc more than they should since the people who are casual users (and not all of them, just some) are gaming the system to make L$. This allows them to avoid having to sink any US$ into (a) Linden Lab or (b) Gaming Open Market/IGE to buy L$ to support the creators / land owners who have put the biggest US$ and time investment, or to Linden Lab directly, causing everyone else to pay more for Linden Lab to be solvent. Follow? That's why these loopholes have to be closed.  Regards, -Flip I am afraid I have to disagree with you flip. I see nothing wrong. I am a businessman with vendors of my goods I made myself (Washer and dryer, electric range, fridge bathroom appliances and tombstones) so I do not see how I am pulling weight. All I know is that now, I cannot rate newbies so that they can earn more money and have a positive first time experience. All this is going to do is hurt the poor. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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01-11-2005 13:04
From: Jay Knox Well I have been putting this to the test for a couple months now, and people DO pay the cover. it isnt tangible to you as you dont see value in it. For those who do see perceived value, its a trivial amount to pay to keep the option available to attend in the future by paying for the services received. Yes, but comparing that to clothing sales as an example... any idea what the ratio is? I bought a ticket for Sim Horror, it was well worth it, but thats the only time I've ever paid for an event. Maybe I'm not the norm. Just out of curiosity, what it is that you did? |
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Blake Rockwell
Fun Businesses
Join date: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,606
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01-11-2005 13:08
From: Chip Midnight Yes! Thankyou.
(people just don't appreciate how much work it is to wrestle the peasants into the grinder and form them into patties!) Damn Chip! I thought I might try out one of your Skins, but now it seems I won't need them because there will be no Sexy AV Events. |
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Jay Knox
Founder Knox Enterprises
Join date: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 187
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01-11-2005 13:09
From: Ingrid Ingersoll Yes, but comparing that to clothing sales as an example... any idea what the ratio is?
I bought a ticket for Sim Horror, it was well worth it, but thats the only time I've ever paid for an event. Maybe I'm not the norm. Just out of curiosity, what it is that you did? The cover was for my club. To expand on my comparison... Clothing has no value to me in SL. Mainly because there is so little new content for men. I don't shop much, I have the outfits i like. Many people put more value on clothing then I do. Cover charge for my club has value for those who attend. I understand it has no value to yourself, and quite frankly i don't blame you. I just am saying that cover charges for entertainment can be tangible. It depends on who spends hte L and what that person values. |
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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01-11-2005 13:10
From: FlipperPA Peregrine Not at all! I love going to clubs... House of Pain and Cubey's Clubbiest Clubby Club being favorites... and goofing around and having a good laugh. I just see this loophole as needing closing... and the creators as needing more support. Without creativity, SL is nothing.
-Flip Flip, I get all the support I need. All I know now, is that it will be next to impossiable for me to continue rating newbies so that they can start earning more money, spending money to buy my things and generally have a good first time visit. |
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Blake Rockwell
Fun Businesses
Join date: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,606
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01-11-2005 13:12
Scripters get ready to make money, new product in demand; "Covercharge Scripts!"
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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01-11-2005 13:29
Magnum,
Newcomers will still have their stipend. That isn't going away or decreased or anything. Bonus is merely being cut in half. The ONLY thing going away here is a system that is currently completely abused. Why do people who've never rez'd a prim in their life have +800 in ratings after 2 weeks in game? I've seen this often. Its because there's a loophole in the system, plain and simple, and its time to close it. When I see someone in game with ratings higher than my own who's been here about a month, something is clearly wrong, especially when those values are tied to monetary bonuses.
If you're going to be a casual user, and pay $10 once without owning land or having any recurring costs, I don't think its unreasonable to, as Chip said, expect those players to spend "a la carte" if they really want something in game that badly. Once you start needing money in game THAT BADLY, you're really not "just" a basic user.
Regards,
-Flip
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Patrick Playfair
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 328
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01-11-2005 13:30
From: Blake Rockwell Scripters get ready to make money, new product in demand; "Covercharge Scripts!" I want one  |
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Jennyfur Peregrine
Whatever
Join date: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,151
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01-11-2005 13:34
From: FlipperPA Peregrine Magnum,
Newcomers will still have their stipend. That isn't going away or decreased or anything. Bonus is merely being cut in half. The ONLY thing going away here is a system that is currently completely abused. Why do people who've never rez'd a prim in their life have +800 in ratings after 2 weeks in game? I've seen this often. Its because there's a loophole in the system, plain and simple, and its time to close it. When I see someone in game with ratings higher than my own who's been here about a month, something is clearly wrong, especially when those values are tied to monetary bonuses.
If you're going to be a casual user, and pay $10 once without owning land or having any recurring costs, I don't think its unreasonable to, as Chip said, expect those players to spend "a la carte" if they really want something in game that badly. Once you start needing money in game THAT BADLY, you're really not "just" a basic user.
Regards,
-Flip I agree on the ratings abuse and personally am thrilled that they have upped the charge per rating. Like Flip said, what is the point of the ratings system when players who are here for less than a month have higher ratings than people who have been here for a year or more as an established player. When you pull up someones Profile and under About it says "Rate me and I rate u back x 3"... I can't tell you how many times I teleported somewhere and was rated before a single thing even rezzed by people who i have never met before. and on the thing with the event support , maybe that will decrease the pure shite that has been going on eventwise. Its hard to find a decent event in between "sexiest baby in a thong contests" every fecking 5 seconds.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-11-2005 13:36
From: Patrick Playfair I want one You already have one You can set an entrance fee in your land properties. The downside is that you get the hideous wall of bars around your property which never looks very inviting.
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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01-11-2005 13:38
From: Chip Midnight You already have one You can set an entrance fee in your land properties. The downside is that you get the hideous wall of bars around your property which never looks very inviting. Ahh! But if you change the look of the bars (the way to do so is listed in the forums and I'm going to try and get Cris to add it to the knowledge base), you could make bars that actually compliment your event or make the bars invisible! 
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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01-11-2005 13:40
From: Pendari Lorentz Ahh! But if you change the look of the bars (the way to do so is listed in the forums and I'm going to try and get Cris to add it to the knowledge base), you could make bars that actually compliment your event or make the bars invisible! oooooh very cool. I didn't know about that. Thanks pen!
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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01-11-2005 13:57
Magnum, just to clarify... I am saying they need to close that ratings abuse loophole. However, I think L$25 a rate is a bit much. Here was my suggestion from another post:
First positive rate of someone costs L$5
Second positive rate of someone costs L$10
Third positive rate of someone costs L$15
First negative rate of someone costs L$50
Second negative rate of someone costs L$100
Third negative rate of someone costs L$250
Then ratings might actually be used for what THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR ...
In addition, let's wipe out everyone's ratings and start fresh with a decent system.
-Flip
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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01-11-2005 14:01
From: FlipperPA Peregrine snip I like that system a lot.
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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01-11-2005 15:33
Do you think L$5/10/15 is good for positives? The only thing I'm not sure on is amounts. Would L$1/L$10/L$50 be better? What I'm trying to achieve is a system that allows the poor to rate as well, that won't be nearly as abused as the current system.
-Flip
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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01-11-2005 16:32
From: FlipperPA Peregrine Magnum, just to clarify... I am saying they need to close that ratings abuse loophole. However, I think L$25 a rate is a bit much. Here was my suggestion from another post:
First positive rate of someone costs L$5
Second positive rate of someone costs L$10
Third positive rate of someone costs L$15
First negative rate of someone costs L$50
Second negative rate of someone costs L$100
Third negative rate of someone costs L$250
Then ratings might actually be used for what THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR ...
In addition, let's wipe out everyone's ratings and start fresh with a decent system.
-Flip I disagree If its not broke, don't fix it |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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01-11-2005 16:34
From: Magnum Serpentine I disagree
If its not broke, don't fix it It's broke. They're trying to fix it.
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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01-11-2005 16:35
From: Magnum Serpentine I disagree
If its not broke, don't fix it It is broke and has been for quite some time. |
